Bengals vs Bills

[pmedic920]

What has me worried is not only the silence (which i hope no news is good news...) but also that Hamlin's Uncle Glenn revealed that Hamlin had to be resuscitated twice. Not just on the field, but once at the hospital as well. That is pretty concerning.

Yea that is something I wasn’t aware of.
I listened to that interview but not closely enough evidently.

 

[bigskydoc]

Yea, and that’s why the silence has me a bit concerned.

I’d think if it was something they know he’s going recover from they would have said something.

Obviously I could be completely off base and reading too much into it.

If he was put into a cooling protocol, it would be a minimum of 48 hours from protocol initiation before they start weaning his sedation. Further, most cooling protocols include continuous neuromuscular blockade (vecuronium or cisatracurium), to eliminate shivering, so even if he is ready to breathe on his own, the meds prevent him from doing so.

If he is in a cooling protocol, then it wouldn't be too surprising that the family doesn't really have much to share.

Of course the differential is pretty wide here. When seeing him drop, my differential was, spinal cord injury, commotio cordis, pulmonary embolism, or tension pneumothorax or cardiac tamponade, from an earlier hit in the game.

If reports of weaning to 50% oxygen, and mention of positioning to improve lung function, are correct, this suggest that there is a problem with the lungs themselves. Either this is not primarily cardiac, making tension pneumothorax a higher possibility, or, more likely, something like aspiration happened to them during resuscitation attempts.

Too many unknowns, and too little info, but I wouldn't get too nervous unless we haven't heard anything by Thursday afternoon.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Coaches, refs and players have been dropping like flys mid game over the last 2 years. Odd.

Don't question The Narrative!

I'll reiterate what was stated earlier.

This thread is not the place to get into a vaccine-related argument. Period.

 

[Spohawks]

I'll reiterate what was stated earlier.

This thread is not the place to get into a vaccine-related argument. Period.

You are barking up the wrong tree, I just stated its odd that so many people have dropped mid game over the last 2 years.

There is a stat that more people have dropped down in cardiac arrest during a game in the last 2 years than all years combined of documented professional sports.

I have no clue why nor am I suggesting why...its just truly odd.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Yea that is something I wasn’t aware of.
I listened to that interview but not closely enough evidently.

I agree that there seems to be something more here, probably a complication as bigskydoc said.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Skip Bayless is such a dick.

 

[pmedic920]

If he was put into a cooling protocol, it would be a minimum of 48 hours from protocol initiation before they start weaning his sedation. Further, most cooling protocols include continuous neuromuscular blockade (vecuronium or cisatracurium), to eliminate shivering, so even if he is ready to breathe on his own, the meds prevent him from doing so.

If he is in a cooling protocol, then it wouldn't be too surprising that the family doesn't really have much to share.

Of course the differential is pretty wide here. When seeing him drop, my differential was, spinal cord injury, commotio cordis, pulmonary embolism, or tension pneumothorax or cardiac tamponade, from an earlier hit in the game.

If reports of weaning to 50% oxygen, and mention of positioning to improve lung function, are correct, this suggest that there is a problem with the lungs themselves. Either this is not primarily cardiac, making tension pneumothorax a higher possibility, or, more likely, something like aspiration happened to them during resuscitation attempts.

Too many unknowns, and too little info, but I wouldn't get too nervous unless we haven't heard anything by Thursday afternoon.

I’ve considered a lot of those differential Dx myself and actually feel a bit guilty for speculating here but it’s tough not to given the circumstances.

Thanks, I appreciate your insights and the time you put into sharing them.

 

[pmedic920]

You are barking up the wrong tree, I just stated its odd that so many people have dropped mid game over the last 2 years.

There is a stat that more people have dropped down in cardiac arrest during a game in the last 2 years than all years combined of documented professional sports.

I have no clue why nor am I suggesting why...its just truly odd.

Yea ok.
I deleted your post above for political reasons.
If what you’re saying here is the truth leave it that and don’t double down.
You currently have the benefit of the doubt.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Do you guys think they'll find some underlying condition with him? Just curious.

 

[Bobblehead]

He's still not breathing on his own... doesn't sound very good at all.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

About 50 percent oxygen is the more recent I heard this morning.

 

[pmedic920]

Do you guys think they'll find some underlying condition with him? Just curious.

It’s possible but these guys go through so many physicals.
Hell we are doing EKGs for High School teams these days.
My opinion is that it’s not very likely at the level of the NFL that an underlying condition of this magnitude wouldn’t have been discovered.

Personally I think like BSD said, it’s more likely that something happened to cause injury in a previous play, and this play/hit exacerbated it.

Still all speculation on my part.

 

[pmedic920]

He's still not breathing on his own... doesn't sound very good at all.

Yea it sounds bad but like has been stated.
If induced hypothermia was used that’s a process that takes a couple of days and he would still be sedated and pharmaceutically paralyzed. (Unable to breathe on his own)
No real reason to read to much into that.

Even on the ambulance, when we need to intubate a conscious person, we sedated and use paralytics on them. It’s pretty common.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I was reading about something called "Commotio Cordis"

Fascinating stuff

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

He's still not breathing on his own... doesn't sound very good at all.

The guidelines absolutely do change and get updated.
There’s actually two classes now.
One for Healthcare Providers, and one is for laypersons.

Hands only CPR is what’s being taught for laypersons. Rescue breathing is optional based on available equipment and comfort level of provider.

It seems That the distinction was made in part because the general public wont do the rescue breaths on a stranger. Or they do it wrong in some way.

 

[pmedic920]

I was reading about something called "Commotio Cordis"

Fascinating stuff

Yea it is.

And the “precordial thump” is related.
It’s not something that is taught any longer in EMS but it is a thing and can be effective in some circumstances.

V-fib or Ventricular Fibrillation is a heart rhythm that is lethal. The heart can not effectively pump blood in V-fib, many times V-Fib precedes full cardiac arrest.

In certain situations when it’s witnessed that the person goes/converts into V-fib a short, focused, and forceful “thump” with the ball of the fist can jolt the heart out of V-fib and back into a survivable rhythm.

This is basically the same mechanism/principle that works in reverse to cause the Commotio Cordis injury.

 

[Hockey Guy]

I know a paramedic who had Mi symptoms that were diagnosed and medicated For a mi in progress on the ambo. They just got to the hospital, and he went into asystole, so they did cpr for two full minutes.

He was removed from the vent on the second day, transferred out of ccu on the fifth day, and came home around the 10th day. And look, at that time he had retired a couple years back based on the fact that he probably wouldn’t pass the physical. So nowhere Near the physical specimen of A current nfl starter.

I mean, if this is commito corditis Resulting in vfib, wouldn’t you expect a person to recover faster?

What I'm hoping for is this was a commito corditis incident & it's been complicated by a severe concussion due to the blow to the back of his head when he collapsed as well as any damage that may have occurred during the CPR. I also heard he may have aspirated into his lungs, perhaps due to the blow to his head, which would also complicate all of this.

If this is the case, & I hope it is, he just needs time for all this to heal sufficiently but there is a real path for a full recovery but the family has probably been told that a full recovery is not assured at this point & have acted accordingly with the information they're putting out.

 

[pmedic920]

It seems That the distinction was made in part because the general public wont do the rescue breaths on a stranger. Or they do it wrong in some way.

That may have played a role to some extent but I think it was more about focusing on the importance of getting the chest compressions started more quickly.

the concerns for transmission of disease and illness is a factor.
It’s just not a pretty or glamorous thing to do. Many times there is vomit and copious amounts of oral secretion involved.
It can be very disturbing even with a one way barrier in place.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

His uncle told cnn etc that Damar had been resuscitated twice. Then his friend and marketing rep came on nfln saying that actually he’d only been resuscitated once. Meanwhile, the hospital is saying anything That’s said is said by the family.

If I’m them, I hire a crisis pr manager who talks to the family and the doctors and crafts a consensus on what will be said to the public.

 

[pmedic920]

That may have played a role to some extent but I think it was more about focusing on the importance of getting the chest compressions started more quickly.

the concerns for transmission of disease and illness is a factor.
It’s just not a pretty or glamorous thing to do. Many times there is vomit and copious amounts of oral secretion involved.
It can be very disturbing even with a one way barrier in place.

On this note and in conjunction with all the CPR discussion.

One way barriers and “pocket face masks” are very effective. They have become relatively inexpensive and many are easily carried. They even make them that fit on a keychain.

I keep a couple in my home, I have one in my glove box, and one in my little jump bag/first aid kit I keep in my vehicle.
I carry a substantially larger kit when I’m at the gun range or a shooting event, I have two in that kit.

I highly recommend that anyone that knows or learns CPR obtains a form of one way barrier and keeps it readily available.

Not so much for the “strangers” but mostly for the sake of loved one’s. Obviously using it on a stranger would be fine if you felt comfortable.

I live in an area that it could easily be 20 minutes before EMS/professional help arrives. Many of you do as well. Having even the most basic knowledge and equipment could be the difference for someone you care about.

Nobody ever schedules cardiac arrest.