Avril signs 4yr Extension!!

[Scottemojo]

Wait.

I was told the signing of KJ prevented Avril from being resigned from the .net GM's.

This post added nothing to real discussion.

Lets be honest. The REAL conversation is always about what .net thinks and why they're wrong. :stirthepot:

I was happy as hell to be wrong. Heard the terms, was even happier.

Lets be honest. We both have been guilty of snark at times, and when we are, the board suffers for it. I wanted to retort in a different way, but decided against it. Your post was vindictive and mean spirited, I have no idea if you were trying to elevate yourself or bring others down, but look at your post. Which part of it was intended to further discussion?

Snark kills discussion. It keeps lurkers from becoming posters, because their opinion will eventually meet snark. It leads to a cycle of name calling and locks and bans.

The KJ thread was awesome until it was invaded by snark. There was actual commendation given to opposing opinions, until snark. People stopped sharing their thoughts, and it turned into I win or you lose. Which sucks.

And the Avril thread didn't get through one page when you were the first to lob a snark bomb. I have no idea if in your head I am some self appointed NET GM, but I was certainly one who thought KJ would cost Avril. As I have said, I was so happy to be wrong.

If you think the real conversation is about being right or wrong, well I guess that is up to you. It isn't my preference.

 

[seedhawk]

Just to stir the pot a bit, has anyone else noticed that the Chancellor and Bennett extensions end the same year, followed by skip a year, followed by the Wright and Avril deals? Why the skip a year?

 

[cdallan]

Wait.

I was told the signing of KJ prevented Avril from being resigned from the .net GM's.

This post added nothing to real discussion.

Lets be honest. The REAL conversation is always about what .net thinks and why they're wrong. :stirthepot:

I was happy as hell to be wrong. Heard the terms, was even happier.

Lets be honest. We both have been guilty of snark at times, and when we are, the board suffers for it. I wanted to retort in a different way, but decided against it. Your post was vindictive and mean spirited, I have no idea if you were trying to elevate yourself or bring others down, but look at your post. Which part of it was intended to further discussion?

Snark kills discussion. It keeps lurkers from becoming posters, because their opinion will eventually meet snark. It leads to a cycle of name calling and locks and bans.

The KJ thread was awesome until it was invaded by snark. There was actual commendation given to opposing opinions, until snark. People stopped sharing their thoughts, and it turned into I win or you lose. Which sucks.

And the Avril thread didn't get through one page when you were the first to lob a snark bomb. I have no idea if in your head I am some self appointed NET GM, but I was certainly one who thought KJ would cost Avril. As I have said, I was so happy to be wrong.

If you think the real conversation is about being right or wrong, well I guess that is up to you. It isn't my preference.

Well said.

And whilst I am very happy with today's news, this doesn't somehow mean that anyone who questioned the amount POTENTIALLY being paid to KJ is immediately wrong. Only time will tell as to whether that was a good idea. Nobody knows nothing. We can still have a friendly debate about it in the meantime.

 

[Scottemojo]

Still hoping the Cards win the SB? Guaranteed it, didn't you?

I loved the Avril news. Loved it.

Never "hoped" they'd win the Superbowl and never guaranteed anything. Other than trying to insult my fanhood, what point are you trying to make by distorting my words? That I'm not an "expert" because I thought Arizona was playing outstanding football before we played them? Because I thought they were going to beat us, when they were peaking and we were slumping?

Wow. You got me there. I gave a strong opponent credit for playing great football. How stupid of me!

Further, I've never claimed to be an expert. I'm openly admitting I don't have the first clue how well these guys are playing when I watch the game. That was the point. How would I know? I'm not a coach.

I enjoy the game as a fan, knowing full well that I lack the education and NFL coaching experience to really break down what's happening out there too much. So I rely on the coaches' and players' reactions and opinions, and put value on those. When Pete Carroll expresses excitement about signing someone, or how someone is playing, I take that at face value and I get excited.

I only become annoyed when myself and others are insulted for expressing this excitement, and derided by "experts" who watched the All-22 and obviously, if you knew half of what they know, you'd know that player is just terrible. Christine Michael is too stupid and too poor a blocker to ever be a starter. Duh. How stupid I am not to know this. Obviously, I suck at being a football fan, and Pete Carroll is totally lying when he praises the guy. How do I know? Because an expert told me on the interwebz.

And it kinda says a lot that I never addressed my skepticism to anyone on this forum personally, but a few posters have reacted very strongly to it. The vast majority of the forum didn't react at all, because they don't think they're experts so why would they care? It's hardly insulting to other fans to say that we don't really know what's going on out there.

But a few people obviously feel they ARE experts, and reacted strongly. Many of the same people who I see insulting new users on the forum, or acting as if their post counts give them some leg up on the rest of us pathetic noobs. As if we should all gather around the campfire and listen to their wisdom and never question it, because they watched the All-22 and THEY KNOW. They've been on .NET since 1982 when they had to dial in on their 9600 baud modem! And plus, they played college ball or coached some little league team or whatever. (In the sciences, this is referred to as "the appeal to false authority").

I find it comical that these "experts" get butthurt when other fans remind them that they're just fans like the rest of us, and not experts, and that they have no special insight. It's hardly my fault that they take offense to this. Only someone who falsely assumes they have special insight or expertise could ever take offense, and only if they take that too seriously.

This truth becomes more evident when you see the humility displayed by former pro's like Warren Moon and Brock Huard when they are trying to break down film. I've heard Pete Carroll literally laugh at Brock Huard when he tried unsuccessfully to break down a play, and Brock's response was laughter, acceptance, and humility. That says a lot, and is a lot more respectable than if Brock Huard was to lose his temper and shout "How dare you!!!"

I was trying to make the point that when you said the Cards were really good, you too were being an amateur analyst. Or coach. OR GM. You have offered your opinions on many signings, many football plays, and moves by many teams. I offer my opinions from no more elevated a plane than any other fan. I mostly speculate what I think, because I would like to learn more. So, instead of rebuking me or anyone else you think considers themselves more than just a fan, why not simply discuss?

I say this realizing I was snarky with you just weeks back, I apologized then, and hoped that was enough.

 

[Tech Worlds]

Snark?

This situation requires some serious close monitoring.

 

[kearly]

I personally do not think that Pehawk, Scotte, myself or others did anything to self-aggrandize, and in the case of Scottemojo I think he consistently goes above and beyond to remain grounded. However it is useful information to know that some users do not see it the same way. I disagree with them, but it is still a good thing to know.

Even though I disagree with Hans, I guess I should at least thank him for his honesty. He at least has the gumption to come out and say what he thinks rather than hide behind snark or letting passive-aggressive douchebaggery do the talking for him as some others have in the past.

Now with regards to myself, I played OL and DL in an excessively simple scheme at both HS and college. I've never pretended to be an expert, most especially with X's and O's which is a big weak point for me. However there are times when things happen that touch on my past experiences and I freely offer that up.

I will say right now that there are quite a few posters at .net that I would say surpass my football knowledge, and I am very happy this is the case, because if I really was the smartest person here, I would never learn anything, and this place would be super boring. It's because there are better minds that I'm able to learn from them and emulate their methods, and become a smarter fan. And the more I learn about football, the more fun it becomes to observe and absorb.

I think that's why we, as a community, need to cut it out with anything that stifles good discussion. I'm sure there are some genius level minds that are reading this thread right now and have never posted. I would like to foster an environment that encourages great thinkers to express themselves, rather than causing the few we have to scurry away.

Regarding Hans' argument. I appreciate his call for humility, and his eloquent examples. I learned from watching the John Morgan implosion at Field Gulls that humility is the gateway to greatness, and as was the case with Morgan, the opposite is true as well. As awful as it was I am so glad to have experienced it, because it taught me a lot about the right and wrong way to grow.

I differ with the other part of Hans' argument though, which is classic appeal to authority fallacy. That we should never question decisions made by people that are better than us. We know this is flawed not only because of CBJ and Harvin, but because of the pedestal that Tim Ruskell once stood upon.

It is much more reasonable to simply express one's opinion, and if it doesn't go lockstep with PC/JS than so be it. All that matters is that thought went into it. And if it's wrong so be it. The important thing is that people own up to being wrong quickly. To be a person without the burden of always needing to be right.

If someone is wrong, but is malleable about it, to me that is the best kind of thinker.

 

[HansGruber]

I was trying to make the point that when you said the Cards were really good, you too were being an amateur analyst. Or coach. OR GM. You have offered your opinions on many signings, many football plays, and moves by many teams. I offer my opinions from no more elevated a plane than any other fan. I mostly speculate what I think, because I would like to learn more. So, instead of rebuking me or anyone else you think considers themselves more than just a fan, why not simply discuss?

I say this realizing I was snarky with you just weeks back, I apologized then, and hoped that was enough.

First, it's easy to analyze a team's record. It's there in black and white. You can watch games and tell that a team is good overall. That is obvious. It's another thing to assume that we can scout players better than management. We have no idea. Carroll has been very clear that a big part of his culture is judging players based on practice, meetings, and numerous things we never see.

Where we're having a disconnect in this conversation is something we're both agreeing upon. The snark is lame and turns what could be great football chat into junk-measuring contests. Those junk measuring contests is what I'm referring to. I was not referring to YOU personally.

And I'm glad you brought up my comments about the Cardinals. I was giving respect to a divisional opponent who was playing great football at the time. The same thing that posters here praise as good sportsmanship when Cards and Rams fans give likewise credit to the Hawks. But apparently, it's only good sportsmanship when they do it, and not when Seahawks fans give credit to them for a good season. Obviously, I'm not really a fan if I think the #1 team in the NFL can beat us.

The response I received from posters here was bizarre, nonsensical, and comical. I actually received insults via PM (yeah, seriously), and had a mod delete a post where I said we should be cheering about a win that saved our season and might have been Wilson's biggest regular season victory. Because I dared to see the Cardinals as a quality opponent, and indeed, our most important opponent. That somehow has morphed into me being a Seahawk-hating Cardinals fan. Many regular posters who brag openly about not being homers mocked that I would see the Cards as a quality opponent since the Cards are obviously "frauds." I've seen one long time poster go so far as to post my prediction in their signature, as if to rub it in my face that we actually beat them. Which is just laughably absurd. Every single season ticket holder in my section was nervous about the first Cardinals game, and they expressed the same feelings, and when we won, there was champagne flowing in the Club Lounge. I haven't seen that kind of excitement since we beat the Giants back in '05. Yet on this forum it was all, "Of course we won, they're frauds and you're not a Seahawks fan if you don't think so." Whatever.

This forum is slowly turning into webzone, and it's exactly that type of idiotic behavior that's making it happen.

 

[taco40]

.net GMs (pehawk and others) on the KJ Wright thread were all gloom and doom saying Avril was gone and possibly Wagner too as a result of the KJ contract

.... the next day Avril gets an extension

Just making the unloading of Harvin look better and better (freed up, what, 12 million bucks in cap money?)

 

[sedrohawk]

love the signing. i was worried that avril was going to be one of the odd men out with this team and no clear replacement for him. i also love the kj signing as well. while pete and john have made some mistakes with harvin and others.
I completely trust them with a player that has been in their program for 4 years and they have developed since he was a rookie.

 

[400WattHPSHawk]

........I think it would be a mistake to not resign Maxwell, personally.

Me too, particularly considering Simon has missed games due to injuries. Depth at the CB position in the scheme our team runs cannot be overstated IMO.

I believe Maxy'll be re-signed.

Yeah Pete, I see what you did there...

To borrow ADAMS Golf's TradeMark.

Velocity-Slot-Technology. If, and I believe he will, Simon stays healthy (23 yo?) and Maxwell, with those long arms and strong hands (2nd only to Browner) Oh my gerd, this secondary can be better then last years.

Would you want to go across the middle? You might catch it, but you ain't goin' nowhere.

 

[HansGruber]

I differ with the other part of Hans' argument though, which is classic appeal to authority fallacy. That we should never question decisions made by people that are better than us. We know this is flawed not only because of CBJ and Harvin, but because of the pedestal that Tim Ruskell once stood upon.

I enjoyed your post, and agreed with all your points. To be clear, I enjoy reading when people actually do share their football knowledge. What I do not enjoy is watching them berate others who disagree.

Further, I have never said we should back everything that management does. Just that nobody here is more knowledgeable than other posters when it comes to those things. Post your disagreement but likewise be tolerant when others say, "I love KJ, he's great!" because we're all fans and none of us really know. That's it.

 

[pehawk]

I differ with the other part of Hans' argument though, which is classic appeal to authority fallacy. That we should never question decisions made by people that are better than us. We know this is flawed not only because of CBJ and Harvin, but because of the pedestal that Tim Ruskell once stood upon.

I enjoyed your post, and agreed with all your points. To be clear, I enjoy reading when people actually do share their football knowledge. What I do not enjoy is watching them berate others who disagree.

Further, I have never said we should back everything that management does. Just that nobody here is more knowledgeable than other posters when it comes to those things. Post your disagreement but likewise be tolerant when others say, "I love KJ, he's great!" because we're all fans and none of us really know. That's it.

Literally NO ONE did that in the KJ post. No one. Yet, you kept pushing a similar strawman in that thread, to the point I finally asked "who are you talking to?"

 

[400WattHPSHawk]

I differ with the other part of Hans' argument though, which is classic appeal to authority fallacy. That we should never question decisions made by people that are better than us. We know this is flawed not only because of CBJ and Harvin, but because of the pedestal that Tim Ruskell once stood upon.

I enjoyed your post, and agreed with all your points. To be clear, I enjoy reading when people actually do share their football knowledge. What I do not enjoy is watching them berate others who disagree.

Further, I have never said we should back everything that management does. Just that nobody here is more knowledgeable than other posters when it comes to those things. Post your disagreement but likewise be tolerant when others say, "I love KJ, he's great!" because we're all fans and none of us really know. That's it.

Literally NO ONE did that in the KJ post. No one. Yet, you kept pushing a similar strawman in that thread, to the point I finally asked "who are you talking to?"

I know the Radish is gone, but his passing did not negate the realm of PM's.

Keep your girly fights personal. The OP deserves respect.

 

[Boiler]

This is a rare opportunity to say my two most favorite football phrases at the same time: Go Hawks and Boiler Up!

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

Most of you have probably seen it, but since it's not yet linked in this thread, here's the scoop from Seahawks.com: http://www.seahawks.com/videos-phot...xtension/91119ed3-d4aa-4f94-9e7f-38df263e09ba

This is fantastic news. Keeping our team as close to the championship team as possible, while building areas that need help will only make us stronger.

 

[HansGruber]

I differ with the other part of Hans' argument though, which is classic appeal to authority fallacy. That we should never question decisions made by people that are better than us. We know this is flawed not only because of CBJ and Harvin, but because of the pedestal that Tim Ruskell once stood upon.

I enjoyed your post, and agreed with all your points. To be clear, I enjoy reading when people actually do share their football knowledge. What I do not enjoy is watching them berate others who disagree.

Further, I have never said we should back everything that management does. Just that nobody here is more knowledgeable than other posters when it comes to those things. Post your disagreement but likewise be tolerant when others say, "I love KJ, he's great!" because we're all fans and none of us really know. That's it.

Literally NO ONE did that in the KJ post. No one. Yet, you kept pushing a similar strawman in that thread, to the point I finally asked "who are you talking to?"

I know the Radish is gone, but his passing did not negate the realm of PM's.

Keep your girly fights personal. The OP deserves respect.

"Girly fights"? What are you, 11?

 

[HawkWow]

Still hoping the Cards win the SB? Guaranteed it, didn't you?

I loved the Avril news. Loved it.

...So I rely on the coaches' and players' reactions and opinions, and put value on those. When Pete Carroll expresses excitement about signing someone, or how someone is playing, I take that at face value and I get excited.

That's your prerogative. How did you feel when just a few days after raving about Harvin, Pete unceremoniously dumped him for a 6th rd pick? Do you automatically trust a used car salesman because he knows more about cars than you? How about the carpenter that says you need a new roof (even though your current roof isn't leaking)? Hell, how about your president?

Like all 3 examples above, Pete is a salesman. The difference is he happens to coach for a living. He is also the mouthpiece for this franchise and the ability to lie with a straight face is a prerequisite for the position. But we don't have to believe every word he says, right?

You feel all posters here are basically equal. You state no poster here has insight or intel that another poster does not. Do you know every poster here as well as all the people those posters know? You appear to be an intelligent person but frankly, that comment is absurd.

I personally have someone on the inside, but I don't know as much as Scottmojo or Pe. Yet you suggest their perspectives shouldn't carry any more weight than posers like RunTheMouth? Along with a few other posters in here, those guys don't just carry more weight, they also carry the board.

I should say here that aside from some of the savvy vets, I'm seeing some real good stuff from a few of the newer guys, too. It's appreciated and I urge them to ride it out / stick around.

Do know that my motivation here isn't to attack you. My motivation here is to remind you. When guys like the ones you call out stop posting, leaving this board to (see above), this place will offer little more than a place for people to talk about beer commercials, fart jokes and whether or not Russell Wilson would look good clad only in butt-baring leather chaps.

OT...Very glad we got Avril locked up. I was concerned about his potential departure. I saw a comment Avril made after being asked what he learned in Seattle(?). His reply "I learned how to win...sorry Detroit". There you have it.

 

[400WattHPSHawk]

Further, I have never said we should back everything that management does. Just that nobody here is more knowledgeable than other posters when it comes to those things. Post your disagreement but likewise be tolerant when others say, "I love KJ, he's great!" because we're all fans and none of us really know. That's it.[/quote]

Literally NO ONE did that in the KJ post. No one. Yet, you kept pushing a similar strawman in that thread, to the point I finally asked "who are you talking to?"[/quote]

I know the Radish is gone, but his passing did not negate the realm of PM's.

Keep your girly fights personal. The OP deserves respect.[/quote]
"Girly fights"? What are you, 11?[/quote]

53 and still have a teenage daughter and son. So I can spot the shit a mile away.

All I am saying is keep your hormonal pissing scrapes to yourselves. When one of you lands a job with the 'Hawks writing your insights..hehe..maybe then you can throw some weight around.

 

[TwilightError]

Thats great, but can we still lock Wagner and Irvin? Wilson deal will get done, no matter what. Anything else would be "unconventional" even for this FO...

 

[Mick063]

At risk of getting dragged into this or even being scolded.......

Why the pissing match on a thread about signing a player that many considered to be the MVP of the Super bowl?

The defending champions are playing the biggest game to date this season, with a shot to win home field advantage, and a puncher's chance to repeat as champions. Meanwhile I have to wade through a thread of folks second guessing the organization?

How many folks here consider it a virtue to cut bait with a player like Harvin, to the degree that it almost compensates for the stiff price paid to get him? Well I do. In my mind, it takes sizeable gonads to do what this front office did. For that reason, I am just not buying into the Harvin situation as a prime example of how the front office "fails". Repeated failure means you never correct your problems. The most successful people fail, but learn from such failure, and are not too prideful to admit and correct it.

I have been a die hard fan since expansion in 1976. I have been watching this team religiously for almost 40 years. When the team eventually falls to earth, I will still be a fan. I'm thinking that there a few folks here that have not paid their dues with respect to fandom. How many of you actually suffered through Stan Gelbaugh?

Edit, Gelbaugh from Wiki:

"He would continue to trade time with Stouffer for the rest of the season, but the Seahawks were unable to win any more games, and finished the season with the fewest points scored in a 16 game season in league history."

Criminy sakes!

If there is banter like this when the team is on top, what is it like when they aren't? Never mind. I don't want to know.