JS Should be FIRED after this season IF . . .

[pittpnthrs]

They just had arguably the best off-season in years.

You do realize the Seahawks look worse on paper than last year right?

 

[Natethegreat]

You do realize the Seahawks look worse on paper than last year right?

This is true, Darnolds play has to be decent for the Seahawks to make the playoffs.
However I'm glad we moved on from Geno (or he moved on from us). And I have zero problem moving on from D.K. as well.

 

[oldhawkfan]

You do realize the Seahawks look worse on paper than last year right?

 

[Appyhawk]

I was very disappointed with the way DK reacted with his decision making process. However, the JS reaction to all that seems to me like rapid fire brilliance. I don't doubt there was collaboration between JS and Coach MM but I am convinced the acquisition process has mostly been moves by JS. Given the alternatives I don't know how he could have done better on such short notice.
Am I disappointed with the way he has handled the O Line situation? Very! But it appears he has done his best to make amends while team building across the board. Ammanwori could turn out to be a genuine game breaker and so could Milroe. Zabel at least narrows the gap to a more manageable problem and one that improved coaching might well overcome.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And....here....we.....go.....

 

[hox]

If you think that JS should be fired, you're part of the problem and not part of the solution. Just sayin'.

I don't think he should be fired, but it took upset fans speaking out for John to finally "know us, hear us, feel us" which finally made him realize that - yes, he should put more focus and priority on the interior o-line.

Dee Eskridge over Creed Humphrey. Zach Charbonnet over O'Cyrus Torrence. Anthony Bradford. Laken Tomlinson. Overpaid and over drafted. Need I say more?

NFL O-line Rankings:

2021	24th	Pro Football Network ranked Seattle’s offensive line 24th overall through the first seven weeks of the 2021 season. While midseason, this is the most comprehensive available ranking for that year.
2022	Near Bottom (approx. 28th–32nd)	PFF ranked the Seahawks’ offensive line near the bottom of the league, with only their rookie tackles showing promise. The rest of the line struggled, placing them among the lowest-ranked units.
2023	Near Bottom (approx. 28th–32nd)	Multiple sources noted ongoing struggles. Injuries and inconsistency kept Seattle’s line in the lower tier.
2024	30th	PlayerProfiler ranked Seattle’s offensive line 30th overall before the 2025 draft, citing injuries and poor performance, especially on the interior.

On paper John had a good offseason. But the bottom line is you can't win a SB without a top 10 o-line. This is fundamental. Unless John realizes this, his seat should be kept warm.

So to answer the OP's question, if o-line is once again ranked near the bottom in 2025, John should be fired.

 

[seahawks08]

The team prior to MM had lots of Pete’s footprint but we reached a state where we couldn’t hire coaching talent. You could get position coaches but coordinators never wanted to come here given the folks on top. Pete leaving has given N opportunity to bring new coaches but the front office staff and GM system continues to remain an JS footprint. Can he attract new talent under him is generally the question I would have. When you have a GM for so many years, there is no opportunities for transformational minds to come join him. In my opinion to make this a completely different team requires a change at some point, because if we can’t get talent in the GM tree due to unrealized growth opportunities, everyone would feel working under the shadow of JS. So no near term smart ready to be considered potential GM candidates would ever come. That’s my broad thinking objectively. Every team needs a refresh when it stagnates. We stagnated for a bit too long. I am nobody to decide GM tenure but 10 years is long enough to stop thinking outside the box anymore.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

This is not a Super Bowl year. We already know that, hopefully.

I hate to bring it up again because I know this will get freaked out upon by the same three guys, so keep it about JS, guys, but we HAVE to talk about it in order to answer this question. So...quarterback. I do not see anything special there. Decent, but not special. Not enough to merit thinking that we're going to the big dance this year. This wasn't the year for QB solutions; the options weren't there. And while he'll get a shot in ongoing years, I am not optimistic about Milroe.

But otherwise, the pieces are being put in place. League-standard offensive coaching this time. The defense could be great. It was towards the end of last year. And the two best guys on defense are guys that John swung short-term, high-cost trades into long-term signings. Three of the last four drafts are looking great, and the other gave us Byron Murphy. We're on an unmistakable uphill trajectory.

So I don't think this is the year to fire him unless the team absolutely tanks. And if that looks to be the fault of QB play, you keep John then too. This wasn't the year for QB fixes.

 

[LeveeBreak]

So...quarterback. I do not see anything special there. Decent, but not special. Not enough to merit thinking that we're going to the big dance this year.

The honest take is we don't know if we have something special or not.

- Darnold played excellent ball for much of last season, but struggled in the playoffs against massive pressure.
- Apparently Lock had a great mini-camp, but it's mini camp.
- Milroe also impressed...his knock is footwork causing errant throws, but exceeds in all other areas. Potential wise, probably the highest ceiling of any QB we've ever had.

All of the QB's and issues are coachable.

Optimistic Variables
- New O leadership & scheme (Advantage for Darnold due to familiarity)
- Intriguing O-Line Potential (Cross is a stud, Lucas appears to be ~100%, & Zabel...Feeling great there. IMO, Sundell is more athletic than Olu and gets the nod, and 5 guys vie for RG all having a year of growth)
- Run focused O with the deepest stable of backs I can remember.
- WR's are built to support the new O, having 2 of the smartest & skilled on the field and decent potential for deep shots.

These will factor significantly into QB success/failure. I liked Geno, but his decision's at critical times killed us. I prefer our current signal callers considering the variables.

 

[Torc]

On paper John had a good offseason. But the bottom line is you can't win a SB without a top 10 o-line. This is fundamental. Unless John realizes this, his seat should be kept warm.

So to answer the OP's question, if o-line is once again ranked near the bottom in 2025, John should be fired.

In fairness to John, the one Super Bowl his team won had a bottom tier O-line.

In 2013, PFF rated the Seahawks line as #27. That's a DROP from #20 in 2012. They went back to the super bowl with a line ranked #19.

In Schneider's experience, you can make it to (and win) a super bowl with a marginal offensive line. Not saying I agree with the notion - not being able to ever get a third and one conversion REALLY sucks. There's a balance between prioritizing and OVER prioritizing though. This year, he prioritized.

 

[Sperrydogg]

This is not a Super Bowl year. We already know that, hopefully.

I hate to bring it up again because I know this will get freaked out upon by the same three guys, so keep it about JS, guys, but we HAVE to talk about it in order to answer this question. So...quarterback. I do not see anything special there. Decent, but not special. Not enough to merit thinking that we're going to the big dance this year. This wasn't the year for QB solutions; the options weren't there. And while he'll get a shot in ongoing years, I am not optimistic about Milroe.

But otherwise, the pieces are being put in place. League-standard offensive coaching this time. The defense could be great. It was towards the end of last year. And the two best guys on defense are guys that John swung short-term, high-cost trades into long-term signings. Three of the last four drafts are looking great, and the other gave us Byron Murphy. We're on an unmistakable uphill trajectory.

So I don't think this is the year to fire him unless the team absolutely tanks. And if that looks to be the fault of QB play, you keep John then too. This wasn't the year for QB fixes.

Nanana Super Bowl is the goal!!!

And mariners are going to the world series

And the sonics are coming back

BOOK IT

 

[hox]

In fairness to John, the one Super Bowl his team won had a bottom tier O-line.

In 2013, PFF rated the Seahawks line as #27. That's a DROP from #20 in 2012. They went back to the super bowl with a line ranked #19.

In Schneider's experience, you can make it to (and win) a super bowl with a marginal offensive line. Not saying I agree with the notion - not being able to ever get a third and one conversion REALLY sucks. There's a balance between prioritizing and OVER prioritizing though. This year, he prioritized.

Perhaps you're right but I don't remember the Okung-Carpenter-Unger-Sweezy-Giacomini line being that bad. The team was a top 3 rushing team, so they couldn't have been that bad.

That 2013 team could be an outlier, but in general, you need a top ranked o-line to win a SB. Look recently at Eagles and Chiefs lines when they won it. Bottom 28th to 32nd ranked won't cut it.

If JS thinks he can get by with bad to middling lines in today's NFL, he needs a fundamental shift in philosophy.

 

[pittpnthrs]

This is true, Darnolds play has to be decent for the Seahawks to make the playoffs.
However I'm glad we moved on from Geno (or he moved on from us). And I have zero problem moving on from D.K. as well.

I'm glad also. We were never going to go anhywhere with Geno. Darnold was a flash in the pan and i'm hesitant with him too. I'm hoping he has figured it out, but i'm doubting.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Perhaps you're right but I don't remember the Okung-Carpenter-Unger-Sweezy-Giacomini line being that bad. The team was a top 3 rushing team, so they couldn't have been that bad.

That 2013 team could be an outlier, but in general, you need a top ranked o-line to win a SB. Look recently at Eagles and Chiefs lines when they won it. Bottom 28th to 32nd ranked won't cut it.

If JS thinks he can get by with bad to middling lines in today's NFL, he needs a fundamental shift in philosophy.

They were #32 in adjusted sack rate that year.

They're not the only team that has won it all, or gotten really deep in the playoffs, with mediocre to bad lines. Simplest explanation is that QB play can disguise bad OL play, but the reverse is not true.

 

[SonicHawk]

I'm glad also. We were never going to go anhywhere with Geno. Darnold was a flash in the pan and i'm hesitant with him too. I'm hoping he has figured it out, but i'm doubting.

Geno is good enough to win it all. He’s a mid level QB but so was Russ when we won.

You need a top 3 QB to will yourself to a Super Bowl without top level defensive or a well balanced team.

The Seahawks aren’t good and they got worse this offseason.

Darnold could play to last years level and we will see the same result as last year.

 

[Natethegreat]

Geno is good enough to win it all. He’s a mid level QB but so was Russ when we won.

You need a top 3 QB to will yourself to a Super Bowl without top level defensive or a well balanced team.

The Seahawks aren’t good and they got worse this offseason.

Darnold could play to last years level and we will see the same result as last year.

You are delusional if you think Geno was anywhere near as good as Russ. Russ was not mid tier when he was taking us to super bowls. He has fallen off now but he was not mid tier then. That is an absolute garbage nonsense hot take.

 

[SonicHawk]

You are delusional if you think Geno was anywhere near as good as Russ. Russ was not mid tier when he was taking us to super bowls. He has fallen off now but he was not mid tier then. That is an absolute garbage nonsense hot take.

Russ was elite for many years but not in that first Super Bowl run. He was on the cusp.

You're sudden reaction is a garbage take. Learn to read and think.

Comparing Russ's first 3 year numbers and Geno's last 3 numbers are (I'll use 16 game avgs):

Int/TD: Russ 24/9 Geno 24/12
Yards/Completion rate: Russ 3,317/63.4% Geno 4075/68.5%
Rate: 98.6 vs 95.5

 

[Natethegreat]

Russ was elite for many years but not in that first Super Bowl run. He was on the cusp.

You're sudden reaction is a garbage take. Learn to read and think.

Comparing Russ's first 3 year numbers and Geno's last 3 numbers are (I'll use 16 game avgs):

Int/TD: Russ 24/9 Geno 24/12
Yards/Completion rate: Russ 3,317/63.4% Geno 4075/68.5%
Rate: 98.6 vs 95.5

Compare Russ first three years with Geno's first three years and see how they stack up.
I agree that Russ in his first year wasn't elite so that factors into his first three years stats but comparing Geno and Russ and proclaiming them both as mid tier QB's is utter garbage hot take non sense.

 

[hox]

They were #32 in adjusted sack rate that year.

They're not the only team that has won it all, or gotten really deep in the playoffs, with mediocre to bad lines. Simplest explanation is that QB play can disguise bad OL play, but the reverse is not true.

There's going to be outliers and counter examples, especially if you have an elite QB or a generational defense like we did, but in general, you need a top ranked o-line in today's NFL to win a SB. Here's a deeper analysis of each championship team in the past 10 years.

Super Bowl Winners (2015–2024): Offensive Line Quality​

Season (Team)	O-Line Rank / Quality	Summary
2015 Broncos	Below average (~20th)	Injury-plagued, weak unit. Relied on legendary defense, not OL play.
2016 Patriots	Above average (~10th)	Solid unit, much improved from year prior. Great coaching helped, not elite but reliable.
2017 Eagles	Best in NFL (#1)	League’s top O-line. Dominant in both pass/run, huge reason for Super Bowl win.
2018 Patriots	Elite (Top 5)	Excellent in both run blocking and pass protection. Allowed zero sacks in playoffs.
2019 Chiefs	Average (~15th–16th)	Middle of the pack. Mahomes’ playmaking masked some OL weaknesses.
2020 Buccaneers	Elite (Top 5)	Top-tier, very balanced line. Protected Brady, key to playoff/SB run.
2021 Rams	Very good (Top 10)	Strong pass protection from veteran group. Not elite, but kept Stafford clean.
2022 Chiefs	Elite (Top 5)	Dominant interior, allowed zero sacks in Super Bowl. Crucial for Mahomes’ MVP season.
2023 Chiefs	Good (Top 10)	Strong interior, new tackles struggled with penalties. Still a plus for the team.
2024 Eagles	Best in NFL (#1)	Top-ranked again, powered best run game and protected Hurts. Key factor in title.

Key Takeaways & Analysis​

• Most Super Bowl winners had strong-to-elite offensive lines: 7 out of 10 were ranked in the top 10, with several in the top 5 or #1.
• Elite O-lines are a major advantage: Teams like the 2017 and 2024 Eagles, 2018 Patriots, 2020 Bucs, and 2022 Chiefs had dominant lines that played a big role in their championships.
• But a top OL is not required: The 2015 Broncos (poor O-line, great defense) and 2019 Chiefs (average O-line, elite QB) prove teams can win with other strengths, though it’s less common.
• Trend: Having a top offensive line is not always necessary but is very often present in Super Bowl winners. It consistently gives teams a foundation for offensive success, especially in the playoffs.
• Conclusion: Investing in a high-quality O-line is a proven and often critical piece for building a championship roster, even if it’s not the only path to a title.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Geno is good enough to win it all. He’s a mid level QB but so was Russ when we won.

You need a top 3 QB to will yourself to a Super Bowl without top level defensive or a well balanced team.

The Seahawks aren’t good and they got worse this offseason.

Darnold could play to last years level and we will see the same result as last year.

You lost me after the first sentence and then I quit reading after the second.