Witherspoon

[Seahawks Guy]

Eddie Meador was 5'11 and played at around 190lbs. Only missed two games in his career, and is considered one of the hardest hitting defensive backs of all time.

 

[Lagartixa]

Coaches like Belichick and Pete being with the same team for 15-20 years is unheard of unless you go back 50 years and further not even Andy Reid stayed with a single team as long as Belichick or Pete and his accomplishments are right with both of them.

Right, if you don't count Tom Landry (29 years, ending in 1988), Don Shula (26 years, ending in 1996), Chuck Noll (23 years, ending in 1991), Mike Tomlin (currently in his 17th season as HC of the Stealers), or John Harbaugh (currently in his 16th season as HC of the Ravens).

Reid's one NFL head-coaching job before his current gig (currently in his 11th season with KC) was with the Eagles for 14 seasons, and he was fired after they went 8-8 in 2011 with the "Dream Team" (hahahaha) and then 4-12 in 2012. At the time of his firing, Reid had won zero Super Bowls.

 

[Chevy]

Eddie Meador was 5'11 and played at around 190lbs. Only missed two games in his career, and is considered one of the hardest hitting defensive backs of all time.

I never heard of him until now...he was before my time. I looked at his career highlights, he was a FS and I didn't really see any big hits by him...so not a comp to Witherspoon.

My comp would be Hall of Famer Ronnie Lott. Lott was a CB his first 3 or 4 years in the NFL before he moved to FS. Lott was 6'0" and on the skinny side early in his career, but he could always hit. He was my favorite player as a kid.

I highly recommend you watch this highlight of Ronnie Lott! Witherspoon plays with the hit stick that Lott had.

 

[keasley45]

Gotta' actually throw the ball to JSN...........so there is that.

Bump made a great point on his show yesterday I think when he noted that JSN is a wr who makes his money catching the ball in stride, on thr move. He's not a hook / curl guy, or a bubble screen guy. I tend to agree. JsN has that smoothness that Largent had and Jerry Rice made famous - not saying he has their talent. Neither of them were burners, they just had the ability to run at their top speed throughout their routes.

I've seen Geno and Shane get the ball to him on crossers successfully. Trouble is, we don't run many of them. But they have to see by now that the dude has a very specific skillset that they'd be smart to incorporate and frankly it's a wrinkle that would make our O that much more unpredictable.

 

[Seahawks Guy]

I never heard of him until now...he was before my time. I looked at his career highlights, he was a FS and I didn't really see any big hits by him...so not a comp to Witherspoon.

My comp would be Hall of Famer Ronnie Lott. Lott was a CB his first 3 or 4 years in the NFL before he moved to FS. Lott was 6'0" and on the skinny side early in his career, but he could always hit. He was my favorite player as a kid.

I highly recommend you watch this highlight of Ronnie Lott! Witherspoon plays with the hit stick that Lott had.

I just recently watched a thing on Meador, and Jim brown was saying Meador was the hardest tackler/hitter he ever went up against. Just basing it on that.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Right, if you don't count Tom Landry (29 years, ending in 1988), Don Shula (26 years, ending in 1996), Chuck Noll (23 years, ending in 1991), Mike Tomlin (currently in his 17th season as HC of the Stealers), or John Harbaugh (currently in his 16th season as HC of the Ravens).

Reid's one NFL head-coaching job before his current gig (currently in his 11th season with KC) was with the Eagles for 14 seasons, and he was fired after they went 8-8 in 2011 with the "Dream Team" (hahahaha) and then 4-12 in 2012. At the time of his firing, Reid had won zero Super Bowls.

Only Tomlin and Harbaugh started in the current era guys like Landry etc. started 50-60 years ago or more. In the modern era 1980'ish and beyond or when the salary cap, free agency and changes to the draft length were instituted that isn't happening anymore because you can't do what they used to do in the 1950's 60's 70's and field the same team for 20 years. Coaches now have to be fielding an entirely new team every 4-5 years which means they have to be flexible in their thought processes.

 

[Seahawker]

Spoon was a great pick, they stood on the table without second thoughts. Might be the best JS, PC pick yet, we'll see, but minus injuries at this point, I see a possible pro bowl, all pro career.
It takes commitment & work.

 

[Sperrydogg]

To a degree. I don't believe that the upgrade at CB from Talib/Peters to Ramsey was near as significant as the addition of Stafford was.

No kidding

 

[Sperrydogg]

The defending league champion had arguably the league's best DT last year.

Kinda laughing at the argument that Aaron Donald needed help to win a SB, but Richard Sherman didn't.

Has anyone won the Super Bowl alone?

 

[Lagartixa]

Only Tomlin and Harbaugh started in the current era guys like Landry etc. started 50-60 years ago or more. In the modern era 1980'ish and beyond or when the salary cap, free agency and changes to the draft length were instituted that isn't happening anymore because you can't do what they used to do in the 1950's 60's 70's and field the same team for 20 years. Coaches now have to be fielding an entirely new team every 4-5 years which means they have to be flexible in their thought processes.

In addition to Belichick (in his 24th season as Patriots HC), Reid (in his 11th Season as Chiefs HC after having spent 14 seasons as the Eagles HC starting in 1999), Harbaugh (currently in his 16th season as Ravens HC), Tomlin (currently in his 17th season as Stealers HC), and Carroll (currently in his 14th season as Seahawks HC), the five current exceptions to your made-up rule, here are some others who didn't start their long tenures 50 years ago.

Marv Levy: 12 seasons as Bills HC starting in 1986
Marvin Lewis: 16 seasons as Bengals HC starting in 2003
Mike Shanahan: 14 seasons as Broncos HC starting in 1995
Wayne Fontes: nine seasons as Lions HC starting in 1988
Jack Del Rio: nine seasons as Jaguars HC starting in 2003
Sean Payton: 16 seasons as Saints HC starting in 2006
Jeff Fisher: 17 seasons as Oilers/Titans HC starting in 1994
Bill Cowher: 15 seasons as Stealers HC starting in 1992

I left John McKay off the list because even though he lasted well into the 1980s, he did start his tenure with the Rams in 1976. Not 50 years ago, but your point is so solidly refuted that I don't need to add McKay. Without McKay, all the guys I just added to the list started their long HC tenures in the late '80s or later.

And I'll note that you can't just throw out Noll (23 years as Steelers HC) because he started so long ago, and I say that because he lasted until 1991. If what you said were true, he should have been gone long before that. The same holds for Shula, whose 26-season tenure as Dolphins HC ended in 1996, and even Landry, whose 29 years as Cowboys HC ended in 1988. OK, drop Landry if you really want to do so, even though he lasted through most of the '80s. Heck, drop Noll too. But since Shula lasted through most of the '90s, there's no good reason to leave him off the list. And even without Noll and Landry, all the other guys mentioned in this comment still show that your point is very clearly nonsense.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Fire Pete!!!!

 

[SoulfishHawk]

21 Spoon Salute

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

In addition to Belichick (in his 24th season as Patriots HC), Reid (in his 11th Season as Chiefs HC after having spent 14 seasons as the Eagles HC starting in 1999), Harbaugh (currently in his 16th season as Ravens HC), Tomlin (currently in his 17th season as Stealers HC), and Carroll (currently in his 14th season as Seahawks HC), the five current exceptions to your made-up rule, here are some others who didn't start their long tenures 50 years ago.

Marv Levy: 12 seasons as Bills HC starting in 1986
Marvin Lewis: 16 seasons as Bengals HC starting in 2003
Mike Shanahan: 14 seasons as Broncos HC starting in 1995
Wayne Fontes: nine seasons as Lions HC starting in 1988
Jack Del Rio: nine seasons as Jaguars HC starting in 2003
Sean Payton: 16 seasons as Saints HC starting in 2006
Jeff Fisher: 17 seasons as Oilers/Titans HC starting in 1994
Bill Cowher: 15 seasons as Stealers HC starting in 1992

I left John McKay off the list because even though he lasted well into the 1980s, he did start his tenure with the Rams in 1976. Not 50 years ago, but your point is so solidly refuted that I don't need to add McKay. Without McKay, all the guys I just added to the list started their long HC tenures in the late '80s or later.

And I'll note that you can't just throw out Noll (23 years as Steelers HC) because he started so long ago, and I say that because he lasted until 1991. If what you said were true, he should have been gone long before that. The same holds for Shula, whose 26-season tenure as Dolphins HC ended in 1996, and even Landry, whose 29 years as Cowboys HC ended in 1988. OK, drop Landry if you really want to do so, even though he lasted through most of the '80s. Heck, drop Noll too. But since Shula lasted through most of the '90s, there's no good reason to leave him off the list. And even without Noll and Landry, all the other guys mentioned in this comment still show that your point is very clearly nonsense.

Why do you keep citing coaches that died or retired before the salary and attempt to prove you're smart and I'm stupid? I know what happened to those old white bullies after the the salary cap and free agency especially when they made it hardcop do you?

 

[balakoth]

Why do you keep citing coaches that died or retired before the salary and attempt to prove you're smart and I'm stupid? I know what happened to those old white bullies after the the salary cap and free agency especially when they made it hardcop do you?

Throwing Sean Payton in there was kinda hilarious to be honest lol

 

[Lagartixa]

Why do you keep citing coaches that died or retired before the salary and attempt to prove you're smart and I'm stupid?

Not one of those coaches died before the salary cap started. Well, my dad always said Landry looked like a walking corpse on the sideline, but I think that doesn't count. Landry's official death, the earliest from all the guys listed, was in 2000, after six seasons of the salary-cap era had been played.
In response to your newest version of your original incorrect assertion, let's take out the head coaches who either ended their long tenures before the salary cap or had most of their long tenures before the salary cap and very little after. Coaches eliminated by that last part are Levy, who spent just four of his 12 seasons as Bills head coach in the salary-cap era, Shula, who had just three seasons in the salary-cap era, and Fontes, who also had three.
That leaves...

Belichick: in his 24th season as Patriots HC, all 24 well into the salary-cap era
Reid: in his 11th Season as Chiefs HC, after having spent 14 seasons, all in the salary-cap era, as Eagles HC
Harbaugh: in his 16th season as Ravens HC, all of those years in the salary-cap era
Tomlin: in his 17th season as Stealers HC, all of those years in the salary-cap era
Carroll: in his 14th season as Seahawks HC, all of them well into the salary-cap era
Lewis: 16 seasons as Bengals HC, all of them well into the salary-cap era
Shanahan: 14 seasons as Broncos HC, all of them in the salary-cap era
Del Rio: nine seasons as Jaguars HC, all of them well into the salary-cap era
Payton: 16 seasons as Saints HC, all of them well into the salary-cap era
Fisher: 17 seasons as Oilers/Titan HC, exactly coinciding with the first 17 years of the salary-cap era
Cowher: 15 seasons as Stealers HC, two of them before the salary-cap era and 13 in the salary-cap era. This makes him the opposite of Levy, Shula, and Fontes. The same logic that removes them keeps Cowher.
Coughlin: 12 seasons as Giants HC, all of them well into the salary-cap era

I had previously forgotten Coughlin. I'm sure I'm forgetting others too. These are just the ones that have come to mind.

So that's 12 easy counterexamples to your completely made-up nonsense about long coaching tenures not happening except 50 years ago, later amended to the late '80s or later when I showed the 50-years-ago assertion was nonsense, later amended to the salary-cap era when I showed the late-'80s-or-later assertion was nonsense. You keep moving the goalposts, and even with the moved goalposts, your wrongness on this point continues to shine.

Why do you keep citing coaches that died or retired before the salary and attempt to prove you're smart and I'm stupid?

It's not an attempt to prove I'm smart and you're stupid. It's simply presenting facts to show your assertion, even in its modified forms, is just wrong.
If that makes you feel stupid, that's not my intent. I recently took responsibility for a completely incorrect assertion I had made around here. My point still stood in that case with the corrected information, but I had made an incorrect statement, and when another person here called me on it, I was embarrassed, but did the only ethical thing: acknowledged that my initial assertion had been wrong in a reply to the comment that pointed out my false assertion, edited my comment with the incorrect assertion in a way that made it clear I had edited it, and added an edit note explaining that I had stated an incorrect number (I had basically cut Jalen Carter's snap counts in half) and corrected it.
If it does make you feel stupid, all I can suggest is that the next time you want to move the goalposts far enough that some twisted version of your initial assertion can be technically correct (and that's the best kind of correct!), maybe take a few seconds to check if your latest version isn't still gonna have a $#!+load of obvious exceptions. In this case, you wouldn't have even had to look up the coaches individually. You could have just looked at the dates on the list of coaches in the comment to which you were replying.

I know what happened to those old white bullies after the the salary cap and free agency especially when they made it hardcop do you?

I'm not sure what this means. But I've just presented an off-the-top-of-my-head list of 12 counterexamples to the third version of your still-incorrect-even-with-moved-goalposts assertion, 12 guys with long tenures as head coaches in the salary-cap era.

 

[RiverDog]

I was at the game last Monday night. I have never been so impressed with a rookie performance as I was with Witherspoon's. Even without the pick 6, he had a couple of QB sacks and several TOL's, hits very hard for a guy his size. Plus he was playing a position that was new for him, in the slot.

We're not even 25% into his rookie season, but it sure looks like we have a keeper. Perhaps it will silence those who were advocating that we take Jalen Carter at #5 overall. Then again, maybe not.

We've been having a debate in another forum about Witherspoon's slight build, ie 6'0, 185 lbs, and whether or not it would make him more susceptible to injury. I don't think it necessarily does, to the contrary, that a slighter build might put less stress on things like hamstrings and knee joints. Others disagree.

I can't find any kind of study that investigates this supposed relationship between size/injury/position. Does anyone have any thoughts or information they can share?

 

[NoGain]

I was at the game last Monday night. I have never been so impressed with a rookie performance as I was with Witherspoon's. Even without the pick 6, he had a couple of QB sacks and several TOL's, hits very hard for a guy his size. Plus he was playing a position that was new for him, in the slot.

We're not even 25% into his rookie season, but it sure looks like we have a keeper. Perhaps it will silence those who were advocating that we take Jalen Carter at #5 overall. Then again, maybe not.

We've been having a debate in another forum about Witherspoon's slight build, ie 6'0, 185 lbs, and whether or not it would make him more susceptible to injury. I don't think it necessarily does, to the contrary, that a slighter build might put less stress on things like hamstrings and knee joints. Others disagree.

I can't find any kind of study that investigates this supposed relationship between size/injury/position. Does anyone have any thoughts or information they can share?

I heard him comped to Darrell Green who was 5 foot 10 ish, somewhat similar build, who played with ferocity and had a career that lasted till he was over 40, I believe.

 

[RiverDog]

I heard him comped to Darrell Green who was 5 foot 10 ish, somewhat similar build, who played with ferocity and had a career that lasted till he was over 40, I believe.

Good example, and I remember Darrell Green as being the type of player you described him as being.

But that's not what I was looking for. Someone somewhere has to have studied this relationship between size and injuries, but my searches don't turn up anything.

 

[BlueTalon]

Bump made a great point on his show yesterday I think when he noted that JSN is a wr who makes his money catching the ball in stride, on thr move. He's not a hook / curl guy, or a bubble screen guy. I tend to agree. JsN has that smoothness that Largent had and Jerry Rice made famous - not saying he has their talent. Neither of them were burners, they just had the ability to run at their top speed throughout their routes.

I've seen Geno and Shane get the ball to him on crossers successfully. Trouble is, we don't run many of them. But they have to see by now that the dude has a very specific skillset that they'd be smart to incorporate and frankly it's a wrinkle that would make our O that much more unpredictable.

It's interesting to me that you would say that. Watching his college highlights, my impression of JSN is that he has a gift for catching the ball, and then suddenly going in a direction the defender didn't expect. I'm no expert, but that was my impression.

 

[GeekHawk]

Isn't the title of this thread "Witherspoon"?

And Soulfish, I like that 21 Spoon Salute and am going to shamelessly steal it when texting with my daughter PrincessHawk during games!