Witherspoon

[MyrtleHawk]

Carter is second in the league in DT pressures to Aaron Donald and has been one of the best players on an undefeated team. If people are being "quiet" on this topic, it's because Witherspoon is playing great, not because of any struggles from Carter.

Not once have I ever said Carter isn't a great DT. My problem with him was there was too many LEGITIMATE red flags with him at Draft time. But as soon as Witherspoon stole the show in stats and lights-out performance with ONE GAME, suddenly all the people who were bashing Pete for taking Witherspoon instead of Carter are more quiet.

As stated above, both players can be great and that's not the issue I was trying to highlight in my post above. My post was highlighting the people who were way too critical of Pete taking Witherspoon above Carter and thinking they knew what's best for the team. Hindsight will always be 20/20 but there's a reason Pete is HC and nobody else here on these forums are.

 

[hawkfan68]

Witherspoon is so versatile that he was able to fill Jamal Adams and Tre Brown roles in the same game. A monster game in front of a national audience to boot. Keep it up, Spoon!

Great pick by JS/PC. After 3 games, he definitely isn’t Aaron Curry.

 

[Jase]

I just hope this shuts up the Jalen Carter chicken littles for a while.


Carter: 4 tackles, 1.5 sacks
Witherspoon: 16 tackles, 2 sacks, 1 pick six

One less game too.

Checkmate.

Carter fans can Carter all they want and clutch pearls and hand wring all day and bemoan the fact that our front office has a clue. Carter had Harvin-sized red flags and no one wanted to see that again. No doubt they're both good players and the book is still out on them both, but so far I'm quite pleased we got this guy instead.

 

[GemCity]

Got both white jerseys from our

I just hope this shuts up the Jalen Carter chicken littles for a while.


Carter: 4 tackles, 1.5 sacks
Witherspoon: 16 tackles, 2 sacks, 1 pick six

One less game too.

BOOM!!

No further discussion necessary .

 

[Rat]

Are DTs supposed to rack up tackles? There are literally only two DTs in the top 100 in tackles right now: Harrison Phillips is tied for 58th while Derrick Brown is tied for 80th. Yet, somehow Carter having low tackle numbers is a "checkmate" argument?

 

[CallMeADawg]

I just hope this shuts up the Jalen Carter chicken littles for a while.


Carter: 4 tackles, 1.5 sacks
Witherspoon: 16 tackles, 2 sacks, 1 pick six

One less game too.

Yeah, clearly one player has played better thus far. Witherspoon was all over the place last night. Incredible performance. What a talent!

 

[SheaD]

Are DTs supposed to rack up tackles? There are literally only two DTs in the top 100 in tackles right now: Harrison Phillips is tied for 58th while Derrick Brown is tied for 80th. Yet, somehow Carter having low tackle numbers is a "checkmate" argument?

Whoooooooo caaaaaaares.

 

[Rat]

Whoooooooo caaaaaaares.

The people having the debate maybe? I think you got lost looking for one of your Taylor Swift groups.

 

[SheaD]

The people having the debate maybe? I think you got lost looking for one of your Taylor Swift groups.

No, I think people are having a bit of fun with you (and other Carter deniers) dude.

 

[Jase]

Are DTs supposed to rack up tackles? There are literally only two DTs in the top 100 in tackles right now: Harrison Phillips is tied for 58th while Derrick Brown is tied for 80th. Yet, somehow Carter having low tackle numbers is a "checkmate" argument?

Are CB's supposed to rack up sacks?

Nevermind the 97 yard TD, I guess.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Carter is a talent, but the idea that the Seahawks somehow made a massive mistake by taking 'Spoon instead of Carter is just hogwash at this point. But like I said, the story is still being written...

 

[TwistedHusky]

CBs are almost always more valuable than DTs.
(You can argue that MAYBE nickel CBs aren't. Depends on your system then and the impact of that CB.)

This will likely be true as long as the NFL allows holding of DTs, which blunts their impact. Harder to do that with DEs, as its so visible. But you can hold DTs in the middle. We see it regularly. Hell, our guys do it.

Stopping the pass is more important than stopping the run in today's NFL. This is why CBs and pass rushers are so expensive, and why LTs are so coveted.
If you can get a corner that looks like the unholy union between Earl Thomas and Brandon Browner? You probably take that risk, even if the DT ends up a better player.

 

[Scout]

Carter looks good but his teammate Davis is just as much of a beast. But there is this guy named Fletcher Cox that helps free up 1 on 1 chances for Carter and Davis. That is a textbook case where the Eagles drafted BPA and it has paid off for them so far.

For the Hawks right now Witherspoon is helping the team shore up run defense but also providing pressure from the edge and to ensure teams don't exploit the middle of the field aka Rams.

Ever since the rule changes happened regarding defenesless receivers the teams that run a lot of off coverage, cover 2, cover 3, etc have had to adjust the type of players they draft which are players that are capable of playing boundary or slot.

Given what the Hawks do on defense Witherspoon fits like a glove and is a great compliment to Woolen.

 

[Rat]

I agree it's still being written, I just think there are good reasons to prefer Witherspoon without using intellectually dishonest arguments to try to mislead people into thinking Carter isn't playing well.

Regardless, even if Carter becomes Aaron Donald, I'm still happy having Darrelle Revis. I'd prefer this debate to some of the other draft ones we've had.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Exactly. A Revis or a Sherman is more valuable than a Donald. Almost always.
This isn't the old NFL where a Reggie White can power a team to a SB win.
Donald in all his greatness couldn't scratch success in the playoffs until the Rams got a great CB in that trade.

Stud DTs are a luxury. Stud CBs or pass rushers are a necessity.
You can get by with mediocre DTs (not terrible but at least average), if you have stellar CBs or pass rushers.

But if you have stud DTs and mediocre pass rushers or mediocre corners? You likely aren't doing anything in the playoffs, Cincy is the only team I can think of that almost succeeded with garbage pass rush and nothing special in their secondary. That's it.

 

[KinesProf]

Spoon is awesome, Carter is awesome.

But many Seahawks fans seem to have this complex where when the Seahawks have an awesome young player they need to find a "boogeyman" player on another team that they're constantly comparing their guy to. Earl Thomas : Eric Berry; Russell Wilson : Andrew Luck; Richard Sherman : Patrick Peterson; Bobby Wagner: Luke Keuchly; Riq Woolen : Sauce Gardner. And now they're really reaching trying to compare a CB with a DT over less than a quarter of a season.

 

[SheaD]

Spoon is awesome, Carter is awesome.

But many Seahawks fans seem to have this complex where when the Seahawks have an awesome young player they need to find a "boogeyman" player on another team that they're constantly comparing their guy to. Earl Thomas : Eric Berry; Russell Wilson : Andrew Luck; Richard Sherman : Patrick Peterson; Bobby Wagner: Luke Keuchly; Riq Woolen : Sauce Gardner. And now they're really reaching trying to compare a CB with a DT over less than a quarter of a season.

Welcome the NFL fandom since forever.

 

[KinesProf]

Donald in all his greatness couldn't scratch success in the playoffs until the Rams got a great CB in that trade.

To a degree. I don't believe that the upgrade at CB from Talib/Peters to Ramsey was near as significant as the addition of Stafford was.

 

[knownone]

The reactionary nature of this forum is ridiculous. Spoon had a great game.

 

[KinesProf]

Welcome the NFL fandom since forever.

I mean, kind of. But I just don't feel like it is anywhere close to a two way exchange with Eagles fans. Feels one sided and manufactured on the side of Hawks fans.

 

[Rat]

Exactly. A Revis or a Sherman is more valuable than a Donald. Almost always.
This isn't the old NFL where a Reggie White can power a team to a SB win.
Donald in all his greatness couldn't scratch success in the playoffs until the Rams got a great CB in that trade.

Stud DTs are a luxury. Stud CBs or pass rushers are a necessity.
You can get by with mediocre DTs (not terrible but at least average), if you have stellar CBs or pass rushers.

The defending league champion had arguably the league's best DT last year.

Kinda laughing at the argument that Aaron Donald needed help to win a SB, but Richard Sherman didn't.