PFF really likes Levi Bell

[MORGULON]

I've had my issues with Hurtt as well.I hope he figures it out this season and gets the defense in the top half of the league (at least)

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Agreed, they could use another space eater in the middle , I'm not sure how well they're set at MLB. If Wagner goes down , who steps in?

I've had my issues with Hurtt as well.I hope he figures it out this season and gets the defense in the top half of the league (at least)

I'm fine with 15-20 our offense is good enough to carry that level defense just like Kansas City or Cincinnati. Buffalo may present problems though especially if Josh Allen takes another step if that happens I'd rather Geno stinks and hope Lock pops because he does have everything except decision making.

Otherwise we will in the 1990's very quickly and quarterback hell. You do notice I don't give a damn about anyone in the NFC currently? It's because to win a Superbowl all that matters are Buffalo, Cincinnati, Kansas City and a couple others in the AFC. The NFC beyond Philadelphia and San Francisco is pretty awful until they prove different.

 

[MORGULON]

I'm fine with 15-20 our offense is good enough to carry that level defense just like Kansas City or Cincinnati. Buffalo may present problems though especially if Josh Allen takes another step if that happens I'd rather Geno stinks and hope Lock pops because he does have everything except decision making.

Otherwise we will in the 1990's very quickly and quarterback hell. You do notice I don't give a damn about anyone in the NFC currently? It's because to win a Superbowl all that matters are Buffalo, Cincinnati, Kansas City and a couple others in the AFC. The NFC beyond Philadelphia and San Francisco is pretty awful until they prove different.

I think they take a leap forward on offense this season, this will help make other teams have to alter their game plans to keep up. Better defense by having a better offense.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I think they take a leap forward on offense this season, this will help make other teams have to alter their game plans to keep up. Better defense by having a better offense.

I'm hoping you're right and I'm wrong believe it. I'm really jealous of teams like Kansas City, Cincinnati, Buffalo etc that score at will under any circumstances it puts defenses under extreme pressure.

 

[Lagartixa]

I am waiting for the scandal to surface that agents are paying PFF staffers to make their clients look better. It will eventually happen.

Yeah.
Their grades are total black boxes and depend on the opinions of the individuals doing the scoring. Despite this, PFF grades get quite a bit of media attention. This is a recipe for exactly the situation that @BASF described.
This, plus some of the nonsense that comes out of those subjective scores, has led me to conclude that the correct pronunciation of "PFF" is not "pee-eff-eff," but "pfffffff," which is, conveniently enough, the sound I make when I see PFF grades.

FootballOutsiders also has stats that are black boxes, which I think is kind of stupid, but at least they're open about what factors go into them, and there is no subjective element during the season. The formulas are secret , but FO is open about what goes into them, and what goes into them is objective. The formulas use play-by-play data and take into account not just the result of each play, but the situation in which each play occurred. For example, a four-yard rush can have very different value to a team if it happens in a first-and-ten, first-and-20, third-and-five, third-and-three, fourth-and-five, fourth-and-three, third-and-goal-from-the-five-yard-line, or third-and-goal-from-the-four-yard-line situation, and FO's stats reflect that. The subjective components of FO's stats come in the development of the formulas, which change rarely, and never during the season. I've still got my problems with FO (for example, I think some of the stats may have been invented and set up initially to make certain players and teams look better, plus I dislike the black-box nature of the stats), but there is enough to mitigate those problems (e.g., the formulas have been updated to align the resulting stats with statistical measures of how much individual players help their teams get closer to wins), and there is enough insight available from FO's stats that I still think they have value.

PFF's grades, on the other hand, appear to be little more than "here's how much we personally like these players." There's way too much subjectivity in them. The folks grading players on PFF are more like the judges of events like gymnastics or figure skating, giving their personal opinions of how well each athlete has done. The stats at FO are calculated by computer programs from play-by-play data. This is why I still find FO's black-box stats much more interesting and reliable than PFF's subjective black-box nonsense.

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

Yeah.
Their grades are total black boxes and depend on the opinions of the individuals doing the scoring. Despite this, PFF grades get quite a bit of media attention. This is a recipe for exactly the situation that @BASF described.
This, plus some of the nonsense that comes out of those subjective scores, has led me to conclude that the correct pronunciation of "PFF" is not "pee-eff-eff," but "pfffffff," which is, conveniently enough, the sound I make when I see PFF grades.

FootballOutsiders also has stats that are black boxes, which I think is kind of stupid, but at least they're open about what factors go into them, and there is no subjective element during the season. The formulas are secret , but FO is open about what goes into them, and what goes into them is objective. The formulas use play-by-play data and take into account not just the result of each play, but the situation in which each play occurred. For example, a four-yard rush can have very different value to a team if it happens in a first-and-ten, first-and-20, third-and-five, third-and-three, fourth-and-five, fourth-and-three, third-and-goal-from-the-five-yard-line, or third-and-goal-from-the-four-yard-line situation, and FO's stats reflect that. The subjective components of FO's stats come in the development of the formulas, which change rarely, and never during the season. I've still got my problems with FO (for example, I think some of the stats may have been invented and set up initially to make certain players and teams look better, plus I dislike the black-box nature of the stats), but there is enough to mitigate those problems (e.g., the formulas have been updated to align the resulting stats with statistical measures of how much individual players help their teams get closer to wins), and there is enough insight available from FO's stats that I still think they have value.

PFF's grades, on the other hand, appear to be little more than "here's how much we personally like these players." There's way too much subjectivity in them. The folks grading players on PFF are more like the judges of events like gymnastics or figure skating, giving their personal opinions of how well each athlete has done. The stats at FO are calculated by computer programs from play-by-play data. This is why I still find FO's black-box stats much more interesting and reliable than PFF's subjective black-box nonsense.

Isn't FO dead now?

 

[Lagartixa]

Isn't FO dead now?

Oops. You're right. I had noticed that there hadn't been any new content in a while (I used to go and check every once in a while), but I had figured they were working on their annual "almanac," but since it's almost time for fantasy-football drafts, that should have come out. And Wikipedia says "As of 2023, after financial mismanagement, the site seems to be abandoned by the owners."

I wonder if anyone could find Aaron Schatz and convince him to release the formulas for DVOA and DYAR.

 

[Mick063]

Watching these guys practice on a daily basis has far more impact than a PFF score from a preseason game. I'm not say Bell hasn't shown well in practice. I'm just saying that a PFF score doesn't reveal the whole story.

 

[Lagartixa]

OK, I went looking, and it looks like the company that acquired FO did some bad stuff and Schatz ended up resigning in July.
Click here for Schatz's post on Xitter about it.

And click here for an article about what happened.

I guess Schatz won't be opening the "black boxes" for us. Oh well. I hope he finds or sets up some place where he can put up DVOA and DYAR during the season. Even if he doesn't, I still won't see any value in PFF's nonsense.

 

[sutz]

OK? Why does anyone here give a **** about PFF? Actual question guys.

Because sometimes they tell us shit we want to hear?

 

[matthikins]

My bad I thought Bell was a running back. It's hard to keep up when you're in Kansas City.

He's taken some snaps at fullback. Nick Bellore's in his mid-thirties, maybe Levi Bell is his eventual replacement (special teams stud, backup linebacker, occasional fullback).

matt

 

[Jville]

He's taken some snaps at fullback. Nick Bellore's in his mid-thirties, maybe Levi Bell is his eventual replacement (special teams stud, backup linebacker, occasional fullback).

matt

Levi Bell in a role like Nick Bellore is what came to mind last Saturday for me as well.

Excellent observation.

Great first post.

 

[nanomoz]

I focused on him a bit today against GB. I didn't see what PFF saw in previous weeks. Maybe it was an off game. He mostly got pushed around and washed out.

 

[JPatera76]

I don't know seriously because we loaded at both positions but given I don't know football I'd go 5 running backs given Pete and our injury history at RB. But Walker seems full go so I don't have any idea now.

if possible id put macintosh on PS and protect him. Seroderic earned a spot over Macintosh imo.