Ringer article on Seahawks Offense

[Sun Tzu]

Actually, I did. Just because you don't want to accept the truth does not change that it is the truth. Wilson was responsible for 4 4th qtr game-winning drives and an additional l1 in the playoffs. without them, we don't get to the Sb. Also again I never made a percentage you did. All I said was just as responsible.


Now as to any statistical category that matters, first you don't determine what matters and what doe snot. 2nd most 4th qtr game-winning drives seems pretty important. Passer rating seems pretty important, Most rushing yards by a Qb seems pretty important, YPA seems pretty important, FYI he was 9th in TDs seems pretty important.

Done that all my point is proven.

Now do you want to continue to go around and around or move on?

 

[scutterhawk]

Well perhaps if they moved on we would not have this issue. As to the last word as long as the last word is accurate I am fine not having it.

How about-It was up to the final play in that SB , the ball is in Wilson's hands, the game was HIS to win or lose Pete nixed Marshawn running the ball, put his faith in Super Wilson, gave him the opportunity to be the hero......Bad ball placement...It was on Russ to make up for his wounded Defenders, and put the team on his back, and he just couldn't Brady out the win, "Accurate"?

 

[John63]

View attachment 11589

I do, but whatever makes you happy

 

[TwistedHusky]

LOL Scutter he was a 3rd year QB. He made a mistake running a play his coach should have never put him in a position to make.

What year was Brady in?

I had a problem with how Wilson moved forward after that, but let's not forget that decision was all on Pete. It was his fault, and it never should have come to that. This is one reason half this city wanted to run our OC out of town after that game - because IT NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED.

Also,

So since our offense seems to have little to no promise this coming year, this entire thread needed to just devolve into a trip down memory lane then?

 

[keasley45]

I agree Lane going down was huge and not carrying that other CB. Also did not seem like we even tried to make an adjustment just tried to play the same way. Seem like we gambled and lost.

Well I will be gosh darn, John63. We agree on something.

Actually, I did. Just because you don't want to accept the truth does not change that it is the truth. Wilson was responsible for 4 4th qtr game-winning drives and an additional l1 in the playoffs. without them, we don't get to the Sb. Also again I never made a percentage you did. All I said was just as responsible.


Now as to any statistical category that matters, first you don't determine what matters and what doe snot. 2nd most 4th qtr game-winning drives seems pretty important. Passer rating seems pretty important, Most rushing yards by a Qb seems pretty important, YPA seems pretty important, FYI he was 9th in TDs seems pretty important.

Done that all my point is proven.

Now do you want to continue to go around and around or move on?

Look at Russels 3rd down passing stats in those 4 games he brought us back in.

You don't get to take credit for saving the day when you were part of the reason it was a cluster in the first place.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Look at the circumstances Wilson was expected to produce in.
We were, for most of his time here, one of the smallest time to pressure lines in the league (after the Unger trade).

So even when the protection was good, he had to expect it wasn't or expect it would rapidly degrade.

In many instances, he was expected to complete passes on 3rd and long or obvious passing downs, which makes it easier to defend and easier for defenders to rush the passer.

And we still had Pete's moronic (simplistic) gameplans.
Most of that 'cluster' was godawful if not lazy gameplans, instead of Wilson not completing passes.

 

[Rainger]

OMG John63 you are the definition of "be like a dog with a bone" ... to be fixated... have a one track mind...

 

[John63]

Well I will be gosh darn, John63. We agree on something.

Look at Russels 3rd down passing stats in those 4 games he brought us back in.

You don't get to take credit for saving the day when you were part of the reason it was a cluster in the first place.

And look at how many was 3rd and long. Hard to make anything when it's long. oh and he avg 7.5 ypa on 3rd down which makes it obvious we were 3rd and long alot. In fact, the top 10 in the league in 3rd and long. Also in those games, we were 44% on 3rd down which was 4th best in the league in those games. His olein pass blokcing 26th.

Oh and since you don't get credit for saving the day when your are part of the cluster then the LOB gets credit for crap since they allowed a score in almost every game. That makes them part of the cluster. Same with Lynch since he had a bad success rate on 3rd and 4th down.

 

[scutterhawk]

LOL Scutter he was a 3rd year QB. He made a mistake running a play his coach should have never put him in a position to make.

What year was Brady in?

I had a problem with how Wilson moved forward after that, but let's not forget that decision was all on Pete. It was his fault, and it never should have come to that. This is one reason half this city wanted to run our OC out of town after that game - because IT NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED.

Also,

So since our offense seems to have little to no promise this coming year, this entire thread needed to just devolve into a trip down memory lane then?

The END of his 3rd year & no longer a GREENHORN ROOK.
With Bunged up Defenders, Pete NEEDED for his Franchise Quarterback to put on his "Big Boy Pants" & be a DIFFERENCE MAKER, P-E-R-I-O-D!
I mean, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, & even Aaron Rodgers in THEIR >THIRD< YEARS, & when the "Chips Were Down" were up to the task of carrying THEIR teams, because that's what 3rd year PRO'S are suppose to be ABLE to do.
Russ wound up with that big fat Franchise Quarterback payday.
I don't give a crap if you want to hate, or detest, or whatever the hell it is you have for Pete, the game has NOT passed him by, he's still splitting wins with some of the best Head Coaches in the League, including the rival HC's in the NFC WEST.

 

[keasley45]

And look at how many was 3rd and long. Hard to make anything when it's long. oh and he avg 7.5 ypa on 3rd down which makes it obvious we were 3rd and long alot. In fact, the top 10 in the league in 3rd and long. Also in those games, we were 44% on 3rd down which was 4th best in the league in those games. His olein pass blokcing 26th.

Oh and since you don't get credit for saving the day when your are part of the cluster then the LOB gets credit for crap since they allowed a score in almost every game. That makes them part of the cluster. Same with Lynch since he had a bad success rate on 3rd and 4th down.

And how often were those 3rd and longs a result of the qb still having the ball in his hands when it should have been let fly 1.8 seconds after the snap.

Oh... because at 1.8 seconds from under center, he's too close to the line to get a solid look at the short middle or still dropping back to get a view of the field.


And at 1.8 seconds from the gun, he's ignoring most every route except the long shot.

You can lament the line play and not be entirely wrong. But when it comes to the ineffectiveness of the offense, Russell's hands are far, far from clean.

 

[John63]

And how often were those 3rd and longs a result of the qb still having the ball in his hands when it should have been let fly 1.8 seconds after the snap.

Oh... because at 1.8 seconds from under center, he's too close to the line to get a solid look at the short middle or still dropping back to get a view of the field.


And at 1.8 seconds from the gun, he's ignoring most every route except the long shot.

You can lament the line play and not be entirely wrong. But when it comes to the ineffectiveness of the offense, Russell's hands are far, far from clean.

And how often were they because of an olineman penalty or Lynch getting nothing or another RB,

YOu can sit there and cherry-pick and say well Wilson did not pick up a 3rd down so he cant get credit for the win. Okay well, then Neither can anyone including PC. OH and FYI no one said Wilson's hands were clean. Not at all. This all started with you and others not wanting him to get any credit for getting to and winning the SB. You and other than morphed into some lame excuse to talk about all the things Wilson did not do while ignoring all the things the whole team and coaching staff did not do.

 

[scutterhawk]

Look at the circumstances Wilson was expected to produce in.
We were, for most of his time here, one of the smallest time to pressure lines in the league (after the Unger trade).

So even when the protection was good, he had to expect it wasn't or expect it would rapidly degrade.

In many instances, he was expected to complete passes on 3rd and long or obvious passing downs, which makes it easier to defend and easier for defenders to rush the passer.

And we still had Pete's moronic (simplistic) gameplans.
Most of that 'cluster' was godawful if not lazy gameplans, instead of Wilson not completing passes.

THREE different OC's & they couldn't Game-Plan or Coach him to get the ball out of his hands any faster???
NOPE, Screw those "Moronic (simplistic), godawful or Lazy Gameplans", >>Russ has been set on doing sh*t his own way<<, often times it worked for him, and SOMETIMES it came around to biting him on the ass.
CONVENTIONAL O-Line play is not a good fit for a Scrambling Quarterback like Wilson, who abandons the pocket in the blink of an eye....MAYBE he's slowed down enough, that he'll take advantage of the Pass Protection?, we'll see.
If he still goes Flymo in Denver like he was doing here?, they are going to have to install rear-view mirrors on their Linemen's helmets LOLOL

 

[keasley45]

And how often were they because of an olineman penalty or Lynch getting nothing or another RB,

YOu can sit there and cherry-pick and say well Wilson did not pick up a 3rd down so he cant get credit for the win. Okay well, then Neither can anyone including PC. OH and FYI no one said Wilson's hands were clean. Not at all. This all started with you and others not wanting him to get any credit for getting to and winning the SB. You and other than morphed into some lame excuse to talk about all the things Wilson did not do while ignoring all the things the whole team and coaching staff did not do.

You can deflect it all you want. Look at the number of times we gained 1st downs on the ground v in the air. How precipitously RWs completion percentage drops on 3rd down. How many times there are wrs open to convert 3rd downs and he's instead pulling the ball down or tossing it 50 yards down field.

It's only cherry picking when it happens occasionally. It's been his way for 10 years. Chain moving plays wasted because of the qbs preference.

And notice, I started this by saying the line play hasn't always been adequate. But again, the difference between Russ and the top guys in the league is they will take sacks at times. They will go 3 and out at times. But EVENTUALLY, they will figure out the defense and start carving them up. Russ's go to 'carve up' move was sandlot 2 minute play, catching a broken coverage, or keeping a play going long enough that he could hit the big play.

Deadly accurate when he throws. Amazing for his ability to extend a play long enough for one of his goto guys to find an open spot. Making a defense play honest by running for chunk gains. Or, when we leaned on the running game enough, hitting the long ball off of play action. That's it. That's his utility belt. Take it away and ... 3 and out, 7-10. We lived off of that pretty much exclusively his entire tenure. And if that's just opinion, point me to the game where Russ just methodically marched us down field, not with the above, but with him doing to other teams what Rodgers did to us last year late in the 3rd qtr when he started to exploit the ever so small faults in our defense that night. It's what Brady did to us in sb49.

The coordinators of our offense and Pete himself have been blamed for the lack of adjustments in game and the over reliance on a basic, plodding approach. It's often looked plodding because we've past up solid, working plays in favor of adlib, relying entirely on Russ to not execute the playbook, but rather to just do what he could do or wanted to do.

 

[John63]

You can deflect it all you want. Look at the number of times we gained 1st downs on the ground v in the air. How precipitously RWs completion percentage drops on 3rd down. How many times there are wrs open to convert 3rd downs and he's instead pulling the ball down or tossing it 50 yards down field.

Ah I did not deflect at all. not one bit. and I looked at the stats.

One more time. this started about you and others not wanting to give Wilson any credit for getting to and winning the SB. I proved with facts that are wrong. You then morphed this into some other stupid crap.

FTYii looks at how Lynch's YPA dropped on 3rd down.

Nothing you are saying changes the fact that Wison was just as important to use getting to and winning an SB as the LOD or Lynch or PC.

Nothing.

oh and FYI we got 116 ist downs by run and 160 by air in 2013 regular season so sorry wrong again. Oh and Wilson accounted for 31 of those running FDs. So Wilson accounted for 191 first downs

 

[Smellyman]

How many 3 and outs last year?

Now that he is a fat slow potato, talking about games 10 years ago is pointless.

His legs and deep ball made him special. Half of that is gone now. And the legs were much more important. Probably more like 90/10

 

[keasley45]

Ah I did not deflect at all. not one bit. and I looked at the stats.

One more time. this started about you and others not wanting to give Wilson any credit for getting to and winning the SB. I proved with facts that are wrong. You then morphed this into some other stupid crap.

FTYii looks at how Lynch's YPA dropped on 3rd down.

Nothing you are saying changes the fact that Wison was just as important to use getting to and winning an SB as the LOD or Lynch or PC.

Nothing.

oh and FYI we got 116 ist downs by run and 160 by air in 2013 regular season so sorry wrong again. Oh and Wilson accounted for 31 of those running FDs. So Wilson accounted for 191 first downs

I pretty regularly Comment on how great he's been. I think I said he's the best qb we've had. So gifted that for the majority of his time here, he was able to overcome his shortcomings on his own... eventually, when he would start playing his own, specific style of ball.

Two seemingly contradictory characteristics can exist within a person. Wilson was supremely talented, and oddly flawed. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

You just read past every good thing said and flat reject the notion that Russ could have been good and bad. Or... you try to characterize his flaws as being no different than the flaws other 'elite' qbs have. Yes, other qbs are flawed as well. Even the great ones. But rarely do their flaws include a career long struggle to dissect defenses and an inability to master a style of play OTHER than 2 minute improv.

It's nit difficult to see if you chose to. The Russ champions would even point to Russ's pattern play, but misdiagnos what was happening. 2 minute drill? Russ moving the ball at the end of games? All of a sudden, the offense 'clicking' when we were no longer executing the ineffective qtr 1 through gtr 3 playbook?

The fact - and you can look this up. Russ would routinely begin to scramble more to move the chains late in games because he HAD to. There were fewer possessions left in the 4th, that necessitated him no longer trying to execute plays and failing and instead, moving them any way he could. The 2 minute drill wasn't as much about tempo ( although it did make his reads easier because it prevented defenses from substituting), it was about him being more unpredictable because he'd use his legs.

We didn't all of a sudden start clicking when Russ started calling the plays. We started moving the ball because Russ quit trying to run the plays and missing reads and instead just did his thing the way he always had. His success wasn't an indictment of the scheme, as much as it wad his own inability to just get the ball out and execute tye play.

 

[John63]

How many 3 and outs last year?

Now that he is a fat slow potato, talking about games 10 years ago is pointless.

His legs and deep ball made him special. Half of that is gone now. And the legs were much more important. Probably more like 90/10

We started talking about Wilson's involvement in getting to and winning an SB. As to your snide false comment who cares.

 

[John63]

I pretty regularly Comment on how great he's been. I think I said he's the best qb we've had. So gifted that for the majority of his time here, he was able to overcome his shortcomings on his own... eventually, when he would start playing his own, specific style of ball.

Two seemingly contradictory characteristics can exist within a person. Wilson was supremely talented, and oddly flawed. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

You just read past every good thing said and flat reject the notion that Russ could have been good and bad. Or... you try to characterize his flaws as being no different than the flaws other 'elite' qbs have. Yes, other qbs are flawed as well. Even the great ones. But rarely do their flaws include a career long struggle to dissect defenses and an inability to master a style of play OTHER than 2 minute improv.

It's nit difficult to see if you chose to. The Russ champions would even point to Russ's pattern play, but misdiagnos what was happening. 2 minute drill? Russ moving the ball at the end of games? All of a sudden, the offense 'clicking' when we were no longer executing the ineffective qtr 1 through gtr 3 playbook?

The fact - and you can look this up. Russ would routinely begin to scramble more to move the chains late in games because he HAD to. There were fewer possessions left in the 4th, that necessitated him no longer trying to execute plays and failing and instead, moving them any way he could. The 2 minute drill wasn't as much about tempo ( although it did make his reads easier because it prevented defenses from substituting), it was about him being more unpredictable because he'd use his legs.

We didn't all of a sudden start clicking when Russ started calling the plays. We started moving the ball because Russ quit trying to run the plays and missing reads and instead just did his thing the way he always had. His success wasn't an indictment of the scheme, as much as it wad his own inability to just get the ball out and execute tye play.

Again believe what you want. I have tried moving on, you can't. So I will

 

[scutterhawk]

Hmm, so keasley45, he's telling you that he has no stats to dispel your last post.
Although to his credit, he's started to admit that Wilson does have some holes in his game.
He's saying that he's an unshakeable fan, no prob, I too was, and to some degree still am an RW fan that started questioning some of his off script & off the wall plays at the most inopportune times, it was then that I realized that he wasn't totally unshakeable.
I think what bothers me about this whole RW - PC issue, is that the RW fans were/are looking for someone to BLAME for the missteps of plays gone awry, both ON the field of play, or ON the sidelines.
For the Wilson fans it's easier to chuck the blame on Pete, & for the Pete fans, it's on the off-script play of Russell Wilson.
DIFFERENT issues? DIFFERENT culprits, Fact is, It was on BOTH & sometimes it was on NEITHER.
For me?, I have a life, so I don't need somebody to hate so's to prop up my Fandom.

 

[TwistedHusky]

I think a lot of this is people trying to desperately convince themselves that without Wilson, we still are relevant because Carroll is still here.

Maybe that is true.
Not sure what the upside is even if Carroll can somehow get the team competitive in 2-3 years though. Carroll can't last much longer regardless. We have already seen he does a horrific job of hiring assistants - maybe this time it will work out after all those failures though.
I think Carroll's capability and competence is suspect at this point. But even if it isn't, then what? Carroll gets us to barely a playoff team in a few years, and then who takes over?
It feels like we are just prolonging the inevitable here. Maybe we can eek a few years of slightly above-average football out.

But the railing against Wilson seems very committed. Almost like people are trying to convince themselves that somehow we have any kind of future without a QB, maybe by deluding themselves that Wilson held us back.

It is almost funny to watch.