Why the Seahawks and Russell Wilson finally split. Hint, it’s the drafts.

FrodosFinger

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I don't know if it led to the split. Maybe. If we kept loading up the roster and won more in the playoffs maybe things would have been all rainbows and unicorns.

But one thing is for sure - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that all those extra picks have not helped the roster any. Can't fully evaluate the last couple drafts yet but between 2013 and 2019 they have been abysmal after the 2nd round. We got Lockett in the 3rd. After that we got Dissly, Carson and Luke Wilson from all those picks. 7 drafts. and by my count, equaling 56 picks. That's abysmal.
You mean like with Marshawn and the LOB? You're something special if you think Wilson won the Lombardi instead of the defense and running game. In fact Frodo hindered us from winning 2
 
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John63

John63

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Their drafts have produced highly productive players. John Schneider has built a couple of SB teams through the draft. Seattle is lucky to have him. Also they've had success in trades. The free agent market anymore is nothing but overpriced vets looking for a payday. Building through the draft is the current plan and a damn good one. Drew Lock vs Jimmy G next year twice. Can't wait., Mark the dates down
Yes, he did in 2010-2013 when PC had inside knowledge of the player coming out since he had just left the college ranks. Highly productive according to what? The article breaks down the drafts and it's pretty clear they were not good at all.
 
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John63

John63

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I don't know if it led to the split. Maybe. If we kept loading up the roster and won more in the playoffs maybe things would have been all rainbows and unicorns.

But one thing is for sure - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that all those extra picks have not helped the roster any. Can't fully evaluate the last couple drafts yet but between 2013 and 2019 they have been abysmal after the 2nd round. We got Lockett in the 3rd. After that we got Dissly, Carson and Luke Wilson from all those picks. 7 drafts. and by my count, equaling 56 picks. That's abysmal.
Correct and at this point Dissly is okay when he can play. Carson is great most of the time again when he can play. and Luke was avg at best.
 
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John63

John63

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You mean like with Marshawn and the LOB? You're something special if you think Wilson won the Lombardi instead of the defense and running game. In fact Frodo hindered us from winning 2
Or you just blind and forget that without Wilson you don't even get there. Remember they and Lynch the year before and the defense and LOB were top 5 and yet 7-9. The offense in 2011 was ranked 28th in yards, 23rd in points, 21st in rushing, in 2012 with Wilson was 17th in yards, 3rd in rushing yards, 9th in points. Huge jumps. In the 2013 Season, the season we won the SB we were 4th in rushing, 8th in points, Only a short-sited person would say Wilson had nothing to do with making and winning the SB. FYI no one said Wilson was responsible he like the LOB and Lynch was a piece to the puzzle that won the SB.
 

nwHawk

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Yes, he did in 2010-2013 when PC had inside knowledge of the player coming out since he had just left the college ranks. Highly productive according to what?
Well, how many college coaches have come in and transformed an NFL team into a winner? All of those failed college coaches had “inside knowledge” too, but other than Jimmy Johnson in the 90’s no one else can match what Pete did. Forget match, almost all are total failures.

Pete gutted the team he inherited and transformed how the many teams drafted. Teams adopted his style, and year after year drain the talent pool in the draft making it harder to find guys that dominate within his style and schemes.
 

Shane Falco

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They were phenomenal in those first 3 drafts anyway you look at it. They also had those sneaky good fa signings/trades to go along with it. I will always be grateful for the best era of Seahawks in our history. That will never change. They just couldn't replace talent as fast as they lost it after those super bowl teams. unfortunate, but here we are.
 
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John63

John63

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Well, how many college coaches have come in and transformed an NFL team into a winner? All of those failed college coaches had “inside knowledge” too, but other than Jimmy Johnson in the 90’s no one else can match what Pete did. Forget match, almost all are total failures.

Pete gutted the team he inherited and transformed how the many teams drafted. Teams adopted his style, and year after year drain the talent pool in the draft making it harder to find guys that dominate within his style and schemes
Hmm and the one would wonder how come his drafts and FAs have been so bad since 2014? Answer no more inside knowledge. If he was as good as you suggest he would have done it in his previous HC stints. If he I'd as good as you suggest his FAs and drafts would have been better since 2014. The reality is he got lucky and his luck just went to Denver.
 

nwHawk

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Or you just blind and forget that without Wilson you don't even get there. Remember they and Lynch the year before and the defense and LOB were top 5 and yet 7-9. The offense in 2011 was ranked 28th in yards, 23rd in points, 21st in rushing, in 2012 with Wilson was 17th in yards, 3rd in rushing yards, 9th in points. Huge jumps. In the 2013 Season, the season we won the SB we were 4th in rushing, 8th in points, Only a short-sited person would say Wilson had nothing to do with making and winning the SB. FYI no one said Wilson was responsible he like the LOB and Lynch was a piece to the puzzle that won the SB.
Any Seahawks fan will remind you that the 2011 team - T-Jack played with a torn pec muscle. Stats, especially passing, should have sucked.

Russ came into the perfect situation. No big shoes to fill, no one to overshadow him, incoming high priced QB having to learn the scheme at the same time a rookie. Flynn sucked in Seattle, but he came to the perfect team at the time.
 

Maelstrom787

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Hmm and the one would wonder how come his drafts and FAs have been so bad since 2014? Answer no more inside knowledge. If he was as good as you suggest he would have done it in his previous HC stints. If he I'd as good as you suggest his FAs and drafts would have been better since 2014. The reality is he got lucky and his luck just went to Denver.
The "inside knowledge" angle continues to be preposterous nonsense.

It makes no sense. None. It doesn't bear out with any other college coach making the jump.

Scouting departments and executives know a draft class front to back, top to bottom. The only "inside knowledge" angle that makes sense would apply to USC players that he personally coached.
 

nwHawk

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Hmm and the one would wonder how come his drafts and FAs have been so bad since 2014? Answer no more inside knowledge. If he was as good as you suggest he would have done it in his previous HC stints. If he I'd as good as you suggest his FAs and drafts would have been better since 2014. The reality is he got lucky and his luck just went to Denver.
Get real. How many front office executives, talent evaluators, coaches, etc… were poached by other organizations?
 

WarHawks

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Who knew that always picking late in the draft for ten years because of consistently being in the playoffs could lead to less than excellent drafts every year? It's almost like the talent level decreases late in each round or something. Shocking.
 

Spin Doctor

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The "inside knowledge" angle continues to be preposterous nonsense.

It makes no sense. None. It doesn't bear out with any other college coach making the jump.

Scouting departments and executives know a draft class front to back, top to bottom. The only "inside knowledge" angle that makes sense would apply to USC players that he personally coached.
Most coaches that make that transition have a traditional GM/HC relationship. Another thing to note is that many of the coaches coming into the NFL from the NCAA have some weird system that doesn't work in the NFL. Carroll was a guy with a long history in the NFL spanning decades. He was top tier as DC in the NFL and he also built a rep as a DB coach many years prior. Most of these guys don't have any experience outside of the collegiate ecosystem which is a completely different game in many respects. Carroll's system was still an NFL system, even in college.

Carroll also had another advantage here -- he was given complete control of the roster. Carroll hired his own GM and has authority over him. There are only two other coaches that have such an arrangement in the NFL -- Belichick and Rivera in Washington. One of those two, Belichick has taken a step back. This means he was free to draft the players that fit his system.

I think it would be remiss not to mention the considerable advantages Carroll had coming from the NCAA. You do see things from different angles there. Carroll had to scheme and come up with plans against these players -- regular scouts don't have to do that. It's a different paradigm actually playing against these guys and having to actively contain them in game day situations. In fact, many of our hits in the draft were players that Carroll actively recruited or played against. This combined with his NFL experience made him uniquely able to take advantage of his first hand experience with these players.

It's also true that if you look at our NFL drafts, they went down the tubes pretty quickly after Carroll lost that knowledge of collegiate players. I guess Scott Mclaughlin also left around that time. His track record has been fantastic wherever he's gone.
 

Fade

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Weird thing to argue about. Carroll has mentioned himself in draft press conferences over the years that he had an advantage those first few years in the draft. Not only from coaching, but from recruiting. He recruited Sherman, Harvin, and Bruce Irvin to go to USC, as examples. He was very familiar with the draft prospects in 2010-2012. It disenegrated after. There is a clear line.
 

Maelstrom787

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Weird thing to argue about. Carroll has mentioned himself in draft press conferences over the years that he had an advantage those first few years in the draft. Not only from coaching, but from recruiting. He recruited Sherman, Harvin, and Bruce Irvin to go to USC, as examples. He was very familiar with the draft prospects in 2010-2012. It disenegrated after. There is a clear line.
I mean, perhaps Carroll has a slight "advantage" in terms of familiarity, sure. But implying that this is enough to be the primary catalyst for a period of draft dominance is just silly. It implies that the draft is beatable so long as you have a bit more hands on experience with the prospects, which just isn't true. It doesn't work like that.

Also, I bet some of the same people parroting the "inside knowledge" angle are McCloughan truthers too, despite the narratives being wholly contradictory.
 

TreeRon

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In the end, it's Russell Wilson that demanded to leave by telling the team he won't sign any extensions. He has every right to do so, doesn't need any justifications. Only thing we the 12s need to know is how he stood on podium telling us he wants to be a Hawk for his entire career AFTER he told the team he won't be signing any extensions. Hey, we learned the hard way, but his teammates knew his true color, lol, NONE had anything to say after he leaves. OK, DK did thank him for swim lessons. The silence was golden.
Do you think Wilson would have stayed if Pete would have been replaced with an offensive minded HC?
 
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John63

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Any Seahawks fan will remind you that the 2011 team - T-Jack played with a torn pec muscle. Stats, especially passing, should have sucked.

Russ came into the perfect situation. No big shoes to fill, no one to overshadow him, incoming high priced QB having to learn the scheme at the same time a rookie. Flynn sucked in Seattle, but he came to the perfect team at the time.
Does not change the fact that he played his part in the WB run just like LOB and Lynch did. Ahh fyi they signed Flynn the same year the got Wilosn. He beat Flynn out. As to pressure or not is irrelevant he still won yhe starting job.
 
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