How often does C.K. audible?
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ImTheScientist
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a ton.
Scottemojo
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My understanding is that they have two plays in each play call, and when he gets to the line he can change to one or the other.
loafoftatupu
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The Niners try, but it isn't happening here. That is why they seem to have so much trouble with the clock, calling for Timeouts and getting delay penalties. Carolina was NOTHING compared to what the 12s bring. Probably had very little if any affect on the Niners.
HawkFan72
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He has always struggled with the noise here, and on the field he can't wear his precious Beat headphones to drown it out.
HawkStar3
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Quite a bit. This is a big reason that kaep craps the bed when he visits CTL Field.
One more chance to bring it 12s. He cant wear those stupid beats headphones onto the field.
GO HAWKS!
One more chance to bring it 12s. He cant wear those stupid beats headphones onto the field.
GO HAWKS!
HawkStar3
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HawkFan72":ltbkw5im said:
Beat me to it. That commercial is the worst.
It's usually two plays that are called. Kaepernick reads the defence and decides which one to run. If he says "let it roll" or sometimes "green" it means the original call stands. If he yells "kill! kill! kill!" they are going to the second.
But in addition to all of that there are still other checks within those plays and some hand signals and audibles that Kaepernick has the power to use. The offence is heavily reliant on this and the calls are often made late in the count and requires some motions and shifting. This is where your 12th man becomes a real problem for the 49ers offence.
But in addition to all of that there are still other checks within those plays and some hand signals and audibles that Kaepernick has the power to use. The offence is heavily reliant on this and the calls are often made late in the count and requires some motions and shifting. This is where your 12th man becomes a real problem for the 49ers offence.
Bluesbro
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Scottemojo":vqp3gwiv said:
Sometimes more than two I have heard, and based on defensive alignment the QB will make a decision. They can barely get their plays off without the noise factor. That is a big concern for sure. I think they should just call a play and live with it, at least for maybe the first dozen or so, and see how that works. But either way that is an advantage for the Hawks.
Popeyejones
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^^^^ Yeah, it's sometimes three.
As for getting their plays off, that's generally unrelated to the noise (although I'm sure the noise doesn't help). We know this because they're good for burning a couple timeouts/getting DOG penalties a couple times a game, and that happens both at home (where noise is never a factor) and on the road (where it sometimes is).
Basically there are four things going on, IMO:
1) Compared to other teams the 9ers have an extra step in getting the play in: Roman calls three plays and relays those three plays to Harbaugh, who then relays two plays (and occasionally three) to Kaepernick. Most teams either have a HC who is just calling the plays, or an OC who is relaying plays directly.
2) As they're putting in multiple plays, that just takes longer too.
So, before they even get to the line, there's rarely more than 10-15 seconds on the play clock.
After that, Kaepernick is reading the defense and picking a play, which takes some time, and:
3) The 9ers basically abandoned the massive pre-snap shifts that was their signature up until right before the first game against the Hawks this year. They were phasing it out, but it's gone at this point. Still though, on most plays they shift, not only to change to a new play, but also to parse out if the defense is in zone or man. This also takes time. Some timeouts also get burned because invariably some folks mess up their shifting sometimes.
4) Teams have realized what is going on and have gotten much more aggressive about showing false looks at the line to force the 9ers into inopportune plays (as they should, and as is predictable). The Panthers did a great job of this, actually. Basically, you "show" really late (e.g. a blitz), and then force the 9ers to call a timeout, or to try to quickly change the play again, and then at the snap you drop the "blitzer" back into coverage and nuke what they were trying to do. I'd be surprised if the Hawks, who are well coached, don't do a fair amount of this.
I think these are the reasons why the 9ers are usually snapping the ball right as the play clock expires, and are a second or two late a couple times a game too. Noise obviously doesn't make it any easier, but it's an entirely consistent problem, not a noise dependent one.
As for getting their plays off, that's generally unrelated to the noise (although I'm sure the noise doesn't help). We know this because they're good for burning a couple timeouts/getting DOG penalties a couple times a game, and that happens both at home (where noise is never a factor) and on the road (where it sometimes is).
Basically there are four things going on, IMO:
1) Compared to other teams the 9ers have an extra step in getting the play in: Roman calls three plays and relays those three plays to Harbaugh, who then relays two plays (and occasionally three) to Kaepernick. Most teams either have a HC who is just calling the plays, or an OC who is relaying plays directly.
2) As they're putting in multiple plays, that just takes longer too.
So, before they even get to the line, there's rarely more than 10-15 seconds on the play clock.
After that, Kaepernick is reading the defense and picking a play, which takes some time, and:
3) The 9ers basically abandoned the massive pre-snap shifts that was their signature up until right before the first game against the Hawks this year. They were phasing it out, but it's gone at this point. Still though, on most plays they shift, not only to change to a new play, but also to parse out if the defense is in zone or man. This also takes time. Some timeouts also get burned because invariably some folks mess up their shifting sometimes.
4) Teams have realized what is going on and have gotten much more aggressive about showing false looks at the line to force the 9ers into inopportune plays (as they should, and as is predictable). The Panthers did a great job of this, actually. Basically, you "show" really late (e.g. a blitz), and then force the 9ers to call a timeout, or to try to quickly change the play again, and then at the snap you drop the "blitzer" back into coverage and nuke what they were trying to do. I'd be surprised if the Hawks, who are well coached, don't do a fair amount of this.
I think these are the reasons why the 9ers are usually snapping the ball right as the play clock expires, and are a second or two late a couple times a game too. Noise obviously doesn't make it any easier, but it's an entirely consistent problem, not a noise dependent one.
Popeyejones":2g4ni80l said:
Agreed on all points...especially about teams figuring it out. You now see teams bail out of their pre-sap look with only a few seconds left on the clock so that Kap gets a different look than the one he expected.
Niners have had the clock management issue all year..and last year as well. They just ride a thin line with how much time they have and how much they try to do presnap.
The Sound does make the issue worse.
Seattle probably presents a bit more trouble because so many guys can play multiple roles in the defense. They can just do so many things from a personnel standpoint that the same look could result in an entirely different post-snap result.
Popeye/Marvin, any good 49er blogs/articles that discuss how teams have applied this tactic? Brooks had a good article quite a while back discussing how teams were trying to neutralize #7 but I haven't really seen much after that.
Popeye/Marvin, any good 49er blogs/articles that discuss how teams have applied this tactic? Brooks had a good article quite a while back discussing how teams were trying to neutralize #7 but I haven't really seen much after that.
E.C. Laloosh":yhflt1it said:
Not that I have seen. I've just seen it happen.
I'll see Kap stand in Shotgun, make his "Green, Green, Green", "Let it roll", or "Kill, Kill, Kill" call (and it was funny to hear Luck do the same thing this weekend...Pep Hamilton coached for Harbaugh and Shaw at Stanford), watch the offense shift, and then with like 3 seconds on the clock you will see a safety run backwards on a full sprint into coverage to change the look for the play Kap went with.
Doesn't happen on every snap, but happens alot. You might also notice that Kap always wears an armband. The volume of plays is the reason why. Luck wears it to and at Stanford Luck actually wore one and his Center wore another because there was so much data. I think they will call like one combination and it correlates to three plays. Can't confirm that tho.
I'm of the opinion that the sound in Seattle really presents a problem in this process. The D of course is outstanding so that's a huge part of the problem, but the noise does present a problem.
MizzouHawkGal
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Wow! That's some great insight on your team Marvin and Popeye. And you're correct about Seattle and the capability of multiple roles for our defensive players. That is Pete's intention and in fact a requirement to play except in specific cases. It' allows for multiple looks out of our base so it confuses the offense. Combine that with our talent level and crowd noise and it's toxic.
MizzouHawkGal
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CaptainSkybeard
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Holy crap. I just learned more about football than I ever have from a fan and it was a niners fan.
Ummm, thanks!
That's just the kind of niner fans we need to keep around.
Ummm, thanks!
That's just the kind of niner fans we need to keep around.
StorytellerMatt
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Seattle is the 12th Man.
Carolina was more like the 16th man ... not quite prime and showing up late.
Carolina was more like the 16th man ... not quite prime and showing up late.
