How many GP's does Jamal have in 2023?

2023 JA games played

  • More than 12

    Votes: 16 17.2%
  • 10-12

    Votes: 11 11.8%
  • 8-10

    Votes: 16 17.2%
  • 5-8

    Votes: 27 29.0%
  • Less than 5

    Votes: 23 24.7%

  • Total voters
    93

rjdriver

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Not trying to be pessimistic, but an honest question. If you were a betting man, how many games do you realistically see him playing next year? I know we would like to see him a full season, but that would pleasantly surprise me..

I'm rooting like hell for the guy, because he plays his heart out, but that undersized body for (basically) a LB isn't built for the to take the force he does.

Personally, I would be happy if he sees 9 games and somehow can give us a presence in the playoffs.

How many do you anticipate?
 

morgulon1

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8-10. I just would like him to have a full season. He's a great player and will make them better.
 

seabowl

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Sorry but this is a question nobody could know. You could ask this question of any player in the league and again nobody could have an educated idea on the answer. He’s either going to play all games, some games or no games.
 
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rjdriver

rjdriver

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Sorry but this is a question nobody could know. You could ask this question of any player in the league and again nobody could have an educated idea on the answer. He’s either going to play all games, some games or no games.

Engineer? ;)

I understand nobody knows, it is just a fun off season opinion poll. I mean you could say that about a lot of threads.

How many games will the Hawks win? Nobody could know. Either some, all, or none.
How much will Geno sign for? Nobody knows. Could be a lot, could be a little.
Who do we take with the 5th pick? Nobody knows.
Aros's fearless picks? Nobody knows. They could win, tie, or lose.

I disagree that you can't have an educated guess though. I think formulating an opinion by considering past patterns and precedents in Jamal's career is by definition, an educated guess.
 

FrodosFinger

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It was a freak quad injury it happens. If he has a full camp I can’t see him missing too many games. He’s still a very athletic SS that knows how to hit and apply pressure
 

CPHawk

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Hopefully none in Seattle. Trade him for a 3rd and cut our loses.
 

nanomoz

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The amount of cap space going to Diggs and Adams is aggravating. It's like $36 million in 2023. It's extra silly when a superior (and more versatile) player (Ryan Neal) has been on the roster. It's mind-numbingly bad value. And building a great roster seems to have a lot to do with value. Around the league right now, and during the Hawks peak success period.

What Diggs and Adams are being paid should be used as a fekin' case study in how not to build a roster.
 
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rjdriver

rjdriver

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The amount of cap space going to Diggs and Adams is aggravating. It's like $36 million in 2023. It's extra silly when a superior (and more versatile) player (Ryan Neal) has been on the roster. It's mind-numbingly bad value. And building a great roster seems to have a lot to do with value. Around the league right now, and during the Hawks peak success period.

What Diggs and Adams are being paid should be used as a fekin' case study in how not to build a roster.

With no mention of the draft capital lost. Probably because it's too painful.
 

nanomoz

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With no mention of the draft capital lost. Probably because it's too painful.
Ya, but the picks are gone, you know? You can't dwell on the past with this stuff if you're making the decisions. It results in ego-driven decisions like investing more resources to try to prove you didn't make a mistake. I.E., Jamal's contract.

Plenty of smart people on these boards saw through those shiny sack numbers from his 2020 season. I was fine with the trade initially, but I realized that I shouldn't have confidence in how well he'd be utilized when I saw Rasheem friggin' Green in coverage the 15th time.
 
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rjdriver

rjdriver

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Ya, but the picks are gone, you know? You can't dwell on the past with this stuff if you're making the decisions. It results in ego-driven decisions like investing more resources to try to prove you didn't make a mistake. I.E., Jamal's contract.

Plenty of smart people on these boards saw through those shiny sack numbers from his 2020 season. I was fine with the trade initially, but I realized that I shouldn't have confidence in how well he'd be utilized when I saw Rasheem friggin' Green in coverage the 15th time.
Can't dwell on the past? Do you know who I am?

I still routinely replay the DUKE/UNLV game in my mind. Greg Anthony did not foul out, Larry Johnson needs to take the open look.
 

nanomoz

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Adams is due $11M in 2023. $2.56M of that salary is now fully guaranteed.
The cap hit is $18,110,000. For me, cost is about opportunity cost more than the actual number on his paycheck.
 

ElvisInBlue

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It was a freak quad injury it happens. If he has a full camp I can’t see him missing too many games. He’s still a very athletic SS that knows how to hit and apply pressure
You can discount the quad tendon, but there’s no getting around the fact that his injury history is chronic.

You have a players who‘s game is built around being overtly physical that has incurred serious injury to shoulder, knee, groin, and fingers. As a bonus, he’s now exiting his physical prime.

Went with 5-8 and that’s overly optimistic.
 

Jville

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The amount of cap space going to Diggs and Adams is aggravating. It's like $36 million in 2023. It's extra silly when a superior (and more versatile) player (Ryan Neal) has been on the roster. It's mind-numbingly bad value. And building a great roster seems to have a lot to do with value. Around the league right now, and during the Hawks peak success period.

What Diggs and Adams are being paid should be used as a fekin' case study in how not to build a roster.

I hear your aggravation. I just kind of shrug my shoulders (figuratively).

As I recall, the big nickel w/three safeties was plan A in 2022. Ryan Neal stepped up and grew into his role big time. With a big nickle in mind, it's not surprising that the Seahawks commitment to the safety positions became the highest league wide cap number for safeties. However, from a cap perspective their cumulative corner back cap number, which is the second lowest in the league, helps balances the budget.

I'm anticipating that the coaching staff will elect to manage Adams snaps at the onset of his return to the field. Which leads me to wonder what Plan A will look like going into the 2023 season.
 

Lagartixa

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I disagree that you can't have an educated guess though. I think formulating an opinion by considering past patterns and precedents in Jamal's career is by definition, an educated guess.

There are lots of things we can't know deterministically, but for which we can make probabilistic models that allow for testable predictions.

So while we can't know with certainty how many games a given player will play in the next season (unless it's zero, when we know the player won't be playing, perhaps because of the time to recover from an injury), we can estimate how many games that player is likely to play, an expected number of games. We can estimate quite a bit about the probabilities of all possible results (that is, about the full distribution of expected results.
And we can test such predictions by taking the relative frequency of a given result (the fraction of times in a given sample when that result is obtained) as the best estimator for the probability and compare the long-run relative frequencies to our predictions. That language can be confusing, so let me use an example.
Let's look at weather predictions. Let's say that given the current data available, a model says there's a 10% chance of rain tomorrow, and that's the prediction that's published. A probabilistic prediction was made, so it's neither correct nor incorrect if it rains the next day. This was a common huge mistake in the reporting on Nate Silver's presidential election models in 2008 and 2012. Many media stories said Silver "got all 50 states right" in 2008 and 49 out of 50 in 2012. But that's not what happened. The media were saying Silver's model was "right" about a state where Obama won when Silver's model had him the highest chance of winning or where Obama's opponent (McCain in '08, Romney in '12) won when Silver's model had given him the highest chance of winning that state.

The way to test probabilistic predictions is described in the paper "The Well-Calibrated Bayesian," by A.P. Dawid, published in the Journal of the American Statistical Association in September of 1982 and available here. Basically, you have to collect predictions and look at how often a given thing happened when you said it had, for example, a 10% chance of happening. Repeating that for other predicted chances, you could make a graph of predicted chance vs. how frequently it actually happened. You'd hope for it to be roughly linear, and with an average slope close to 1.
You might have to "bin" predictions to increase the size of the sample. For example, you might not have predicted exactly a 53% chance of rain for a given day many times, but you might have made predictions in the range of 50%-54.9% enough times for the sample to be "big enough" (that's a whole other topic on which a lot of work has been done and a lot can be said). If the graph is not linear, or has an average slope far from 1, then the probabilistic predictions are not very good. If it comes out looking roughly linear, with a slope close to 1, that's a sign that the probabilistic predictions have done pretty well.
Dawid also proves that a statistician using now-standard Bayesian methods should expect his predictions to do well as described above, but the part I wanted to cover here was how the quality of probabilistic predictions is measured.
 

Lagartixa

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The cap hit is $18,110,000. For me, cost is about opportunity cost more than the actual number on his paycheck.

If Adams were to be cut before the 2023 season, that cost would get even bigger, because there would be almost $23.9M in dead money on the 2023 cap, leading to a net negative $5.78M in cap "savings." That is, Adams takes up $5.78M more cap space for not being on the Seahawks roster in 2023 than if he's on the roster. If the Seahawks cut him after June 1, "only" $9.67M of the dead money falls on the 2023 cap, with the rest hitting the 2024 cap.

If the Seahawks cut Adams after the 2023 season, there is still $14.22M in dead money on the 2024 cap, but there's $9.39M in cap savings.

Stuff can still happen, but the most-likely outcome as of right now is Adams staying on the Seahawks roster for 2023, but not in 2024.
 
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