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Seahawks Haven't Recovered From "The Play"

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  • Thanks FidelisHawk, I can respect that. I knew this would stir the pot when I posted and there's been plenty of strong counters to my opinion but it hasn't changed any. I am not without understanding what it takes for any team to be successful in every play and every game of every season. I know as well as anyone how the game of football is truly one of inches, preperation and lots of luck for everything to go their way. There are endless moving parts in any given play that can be the difference in success or failure.

    Pete Carroll is loyal at times to a fault, especially his coaches. I will go to my grave knowing deep in my heart that Bevell was the reason for that play call and Carroll - wanting to protect his friend - did what any noble coach would do in that position and take the sword himself. In doing so not only did he undermine and insult the intelligence of his players that had put everything on the line to be back-to-back champions, but he fractured what was the tightest locker room in all of football by placing mistrust in the center of it.

    Suddenly there was room for questions (whether verbalized openly or not) such as "Did they not hand it off to Lynch so Wilson could be the MVP?" Just the thought of that, however fleeting, further created cracks in what was otherwise the most formidable dam in all of football.

    So yes, only X amount of players are still on the roster from that game. Yes, it's easy to blame player/coach/scheme ineptitude for why we lose games and seasons, but that's all compartmentalized analysis. I am not bothering with that. I am focusing on the cancer that has absorbed this franchise since that play that it appears most fans want to dismiss. That's perfectly fine with me but I know in my heart until that cancer is removed from the body of this franchise, true healing will never happen in this Pete Carroll Era.
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  • Aros wrote:
    RussB wrote:I dont think some are getting what Aros means. They are probably over the play, they just arent over the fact that they basically threw away a dynasty. And every season since they keep trying to get back to that point and its just not happening. They were probably fired up the next season to get back to the superbowl with the talent they have, and it didnt happen. Then another season they get knocked out of the playoffs again. Now they are decimated by injuries and its becoming to look like they will never get that second chance again.

    They were right there and could have been back to back champions now they cant even get past the divisional. Basically wasted potential.


    Thank you. Somebody gets me. :D

    These are proud warriors who know Father Time is stopping for nobody. The window is all but closed and this is supposed to be the top of many of their careers. Russ is still plenty young enough but some of these other warriors their time is just about up or closing fast. What could have been. What should have been. For anyone to think that the fallout of XLIX has not been a factor for this franchise TO THIS VERY DAY has not been paying as much attention as they think.


    I don't think it plays a factor in how good the team is nowadays.
    Does it have an effect on the whole SB roster and staff? Yes, it will always be part of their memories and always be something they might think about and feel sad about. They will never truly overcome it since it is impossible to truly overcome (it's in the past). The closest thing would probably be to win back to back SBs now, but even then one could think about how even greater it would have been if we would have won back to back SBs two times.

    It all depends on what you focus on, you can enjoy life, live in the now and think about the positives, or think about the negative things. Devin Hester and Megatron could spend all their time thinking about never winning a Superbowl or they could think about the rest of their legendary careers. The same goes for you all...

    I don't think our players let this lost SB define them, meaning they don't think about it too much and don't play worse because of it. Do you really believe our players/team would be better now if we would have won the Superbowl? I don't believe so.
    Would they be better if we would have fired Bevell after the SB? Maybe, but mainly because we would have a better OC now and not because of a lesser SB hangover. A lot of things could have had an effect and could have made the team completely different (i.e. butterfly effect) but there is no actual evidence that we would be a better team now or the years following the SB if we would have won it.
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  • I would love to keep the veterans on our team if they're willing to take a paycut. I think that would make us an amazing team. The Legion of Boom and the Legion of Baby Boomers. That'd be awesome

    That said, of course they're still heartbroken over that play. If Russell & Pete get another ring I'll think "Welp, it could have been 3." And if he gets 2 more I'll say "Welp, it could have been 4"

    That said, to me it was just a really amazing play by Malcolm Butler. We can whine and cry over it and play MMQB. And rightfully so. Maybe Beast Mode gets in, maybe a bootleg with Russell gets it. But at the end of the day, Malcolm Butler made a PERFFECCTTT play. If he's even 0.02 seconds slower, I don't think he makes that interception. That's how I will always see it. The throw wasn't bad, the play wasn't terrible. Butler just sniffed it out IMMEDIATELY.

    Also doesn't help that Lockette was too "relaxed" to the ball and Kearse couldn't handle Browner. Where's Larry Fitzgerald or Julio when you need em. They'd make that play happen
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  • Aros wrote:Thanks FidelisHawk, I can respect that. I knew this would stir the pot when I posted and there's been plenty of strong counters to my opinion but it hasn't changed any. I am not without understanding what it takes for any team to be successful in every play and every game of every season. I know as well as anyone how the game of football is truly one of inches, preperation and lots of luck for everything to go their way. There are endless moving parts in any given play that can be the difference in success or failure.

    Pete Carroll is loyal at times to a fault, especially his coaches. I will go to my grave knowing deep in my heart that Bevell was the reason for that play call and Carroll - wanting to protect his friend - did what any noble coach would do in that position and take the sword himself. In doing so not only did he undermine and insult the intelligence of his players that had put everything on the line to be back-to-back champions, but he fractured what was the tightest locker room in all of football by placing mistrust in the center of it.

    Suddenly there was room for questions (whether verbalized openly or not) such as "Did they not hand it off to Lynch so Wilson could be the MVP?" Just the thought of that, however fleeting, further created cracks in what was otherwise the most formidable dam in all of football.

    So yes, only X amount of players are still on the roster from that game. Yes, it's easy to blame player/coach/scheme ineptitude for why we lose games and seasons, but that's all compartmentalized analysis. I am not bothering with that. I am focusing on the cancer that has absorbed this franchise since that play that it appears most fans want to dismiss. That's perfectly fine with me but I know in my heart until that cancer is removed from the body of this franchise, true healing will never happen in this Pete Carroll Era.


    Well, contrary to my post count, I’ve debated issues, thoughts and opinions enough to know that no matter how hard or loudly I express my thoughts and opinions, I’ll never change yours (or anybody else's for that matter).

    I have my own thoughts on the wisdom of changing coaches, coordinators, or positions coaches and the success, failure, or lack of change that happens afterward (and maybe I’ll put them to pen someday).

    Suffice it to say, I don’t fall into the “everything that’s wrong with the Seahawks offense is Bevell’s fault” camp nor do I believe a change for change’s sake would drastically alter their fortunes, but I’ve been around the block enough to realize I’m not all seeing or all knowing. If another fan believes that, so be it.

    The point I had hoped to make was, IF a player (or a coach for that matter) is obsessed or is haunted by a single play, for any longer than it takes to line up for the next one, he’s doomed to failure. I just don’t believe a single player, besides maybe Lockette or Butler, give “The Play” more than a cursory thought, if asked.

    So, while I can understand why fans, sportscasters, and forum boards may be infatuated with the possibility that “The Play” changed the course of Seahawk fortunes forever more, I reject that mindset and therefore the premise of your post. I simply believe winning consistently is much harder than most fans care to believe and winning a Super Bowl is even harder still.

    And one “Play” doesn’t define a franchise in anyone’s mind except a few fans, sportscasters, and forum board posters.



    Feel free to disagree, we are fans, on a forum board, posting :)
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  • Hmm, FidelisHawk reading the tone of your post it sounds like you thought my post was aimed at you personally. It was not. In fact, I rather enjoyed your post and found it well thought out. Unfortunately it appears that this is one of those threads where nobody seems to be getting their point across accurately and fully. I agree with much of the "rebuttals" so we are all more on the same page than we think here.

    This is a multifaceted issue, not one that can be pinpointed at one thing, and yes that includes "The Play". I feel that my point has been lost in this thread and that's too bad, but after all it is just a fan forum with fans offering their opinions, and sometimes those opinions are better illustrated in person and not behind a keyboard where so much is left open to interpretation.
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  • Aros wrote:Hmm, FidelisHawk reading the tone of your post it sounds like you thought my post was aimed at you personally. It was not. In fact, I rather enjoyed your post and found it well thought out. Unfortunately it appears that this is one of those threads where nobody seems to be getting their point across accurately and fully. I agree with much of the "rebuttals" so we are all more on the same page than we think here.

    This is a multifaceted issue, not one that can be pinpointed at one thing, and yes that includes "The Play". I feel that my point has been lost in this thread and that's too bad, but after all it is just a fan forum with fans offering their opinions, and sometimes those opinions are better illustrated in person and not behind a keyboard where so much is left open to interpretation.


    My thoughts and comments were intended for the entire board, I quoted you because you were the original poster, I consider you an old friend (whom I’ve never met) and you said my name. Furthermore had you been directing your comments to me, personally, I would be honored and not besmirched, so there’s nothing to apologize for, quite the contrary.

    I believe I do get your point/points, and other posters as well, in no particular order let me try to summarize, as I see the tone of it:
    “The Play”,

    Bevell called “The Play”,
    I agree, with a caveat, Pete knew it and okayed it.

    “The Play” was a bad call,
    I disagree, it’s been debated over and over and doing so again would take more time than this post needs. Let me just say, I believe, it was a good call with the worst possible outcome.

    “The Play” was such a bad call and handled so poorly, Bevell should’ve been fired.
    I disagree, again I believe, it was a good call with the worst possible outcome. Could it have been handled differently sure, should he have been fired because of it, no.
    (now is he a subpar OC and should be fired, I’m neutral and have reasons that are both for and against, maybe another day)

    “The Play” was called for nefarious reasons,
    I disagree and don’t believe you think so either.

    “The Play” split the locker room offense against defense,
    I disagree, as I posted earlier if players a worried about a single play that happens two plays ago, two games ago or two years ago then they will never be able to play the game the way they should. That’s the premise I wholeheartedly dismiss and disagree with.

    “The Play” ended any chance to for this team to be considered a dynasty,
    I disagree, dynasties are determined after the fact, only history and/or popular opinion can, or will, make that determination, but continuing to win will go a long way in helping and I believe as long as Russell can play, this team can win.

    “The Play” will forever define the Carroll era,
    I disagree, two lucky catches that cost two Super Bowls certainly didn’t define the Belichick era, winning games, getting there, and winning did. I believe Pete and this team have more wins ahead them contrary to the, seemingly, current popular opinion.

    “The Play” was this team’s high water mark and their window is rapidly closing,
    I disagree, call me an optimist if you must, but great teams have similar things in common. A good owner, check. A good front office, check. A good coach, check. A good quarterback, check.

    “The Play” will always be a dark cloud over everything they do from here on out,
    I not only disagree, I’d hope nobody would ever pin their fandom on such a petty concept, but if you/they want to, okay, I choose to walk in the sunshine, after all, I’m an optimist.

    So did I miss any points? Did I not follow the line of thought behind the original post? Should I’ve not tried to boil it down to the simple concept that “The Play” (as in the original post) has nothing to do with the present, or the future, only the past, and the only “Play” that matters is the next one?

    Well, now that I went and got way too pointed and way too long, feel free to strike me off my soapbox.

    I probably should have just said, “I disagree” in the first place, but it has been fun talking to my old friend :)
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  • The only windows that are closing are Avril's, Kams, Sherms, and Bennetts. Ours remains open if they can start hitting more early pics unlike the last few.
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  • olyfan63 wrote:This is just silly. Of course you don't "recover from" "The Play". Players and coaches just set it aside, forget about it, use it as extra motivation, or whatever, and MOVE ON.

    As someone pointed out, we're several years removed and only about 20% of the players who were in SB49 are still on the team. Yes, most of the coaching staff, so they would be the only ones potentially affected.

    The real issue is poor drafts and especially the ongoing crappy offensive line. Another huge issue is the rest of the NFL developing a better "book" on the Seahawks, like largely neutralizing the Read-Option, figuring out ways to attack the Pete Carroll defense, etc., and the Seahawks not reacting and adapting as quickly as they need to, being too stubborn about "imposing their will" rather than matching up to each opponent to exploit strengths and weaknesses.

    The NFL is a brutally competitive business. Pete & Co have all they can do each week to game plan for the upcoming opponent, prepare the players, analyze matchups, etc.

    If Malcolm Butler stumbles and Lockette catches the game winner, I don't think very much is different right now, other than the Seahawks have two Lombardis in the case, and some media storylines change. For example, that 2013-2014 Seahawks defense gets regularly brought up as one of the all-time great defenses, and Brady gets labeled as a choker in the big games, instead of all the knob slobbering that occurred. (Brady gets his redemption from the SB comeback vs. the Falcons)

    "The Play" is a non-factor with today's Seahawks team. Poor drafts, injuries, boneheaded coaching at times/failure to adjust and learn, and an all-time crappy O-Line are all real factors, among others.


    This. The coaches have shown that lack of adaptability is their weakness, and if anything, a second title would have just made them even more complacent and hastened the decline. The poor drafts are the real reason behind the decline and we've been drafting poorly since before "The Play."
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  • Seymour wrote:The only windows that are closing are Avril's, Kams, Sherms, and Bennetts. Ours remains open if they can start hitting more early pics unlike the last few.


    I would certainly agree with Avril given his age and type of injury.

    I still hold out hope for Kam and Bennett, or at the very least, I’m not ready to say the they’re so past their prime or so injury prone as to be a detriment.

    Sherman on the other hand has never had an injury that keep him from a game day start and doesn’t rely on superior speed as the major advantage to his technique. Even hurt, he still played at an elite level. I think he still has two, three, maybe more, left on a newly recovered wheel. Even if he was only 90% or less, he’d still be as good, or better, than half the league’s starting Corners.
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  • Fidelishawk, you certainly detailed in specifics many of the thoughts I've had on The Play with your excellent posts in this thread. I enjoyed reading your breakdown.

    It's been documented over and over again that the Hawks have recovered from a Super Bowl defeat better than any team in modern history. And that's a testament to both the players and the coaching staff.

    It's losing organizations like the Browns that would be fractured by a loss like that and would respond by making petty personnel moves. That's exactly what losers do.

    Pete and John understand the bigger picture and have made this the golden era in franchise history.
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  • Good stuff FidelisHawk...Here's some of my inputs...(in italics)

    Bevell called “The Play”,
    I agree, with a caveat, Pete knew it and okayed it.

    I would agree with that. I too think Carroll okayed it and chose to fall on the sword when (sh)it hit the fan and the entire planet wanted an answer for what appeared to be a strange, high risk call.

    “The Play” was a bad call,
    I disagree, it’s been debated over and over and doing so again would take more time than this post needs. Let me just say, I believe, it was a good call with the worst possible outcome.

    I would also agree. I wasn't one of the masses thinking it was a terrible call. It was in fact a great call that was executed terribly. Russell, Kearse and Lockette all played their roles in its ultimate failure. Butler knew the play was coming and he made the play of his career there.

    “The Play” was such a bad call and handled so poorly, Bevell should’ve been fired.
    I disagree, again I believe, it was a good call with the worst possible outcome. Could it have been handled differently sure, should he have been fired because of it, no. (now is he a subpar OC and should be fired, I’m neutral and have reasons that are both for and against, maybe another day).

    Some would have been fired from that play call alone but with Carroll's loyalty firmly in hand that was never going to be a realistic outcome. Like stated above, the play call itself wasn't bad, the execution was.

    “The Play” was called for nefarious reasons,
    I disagree and don’t believe you think so either.

    I definitely don't believe that either. Nothing nefarious. Bevell felt since everyone on the planet was expecting a hand off to Lynch, why not throw them a curve ball and do a quick slant to a backup receiver? Who would see THAT coming? Oh wait, don't answer that...

    “The Play” split the locker room offense against defense,
    I disagree, as I posted earlier if players a worried about a single play that happens two plays ago, two games ago or two years ago then they will never be able to play the game the way they should. That’s the premise I wholeheartedly dismiss and disagree with.

    I do believe there has been a very real dichotomy between the offense and defense in recent years but I don't think it's genesis is tied to "The Play". My feeling is that the defense has held a bit of a grudge over the years for having to carry the offense, or for the offense not doing their job by moving the chains consistently and subsequently keeping them off the field and fresh. I've watched a lot of defensive players over the years in interviews and I can read body language pretty darn well and they pretty much admit it without spelling it out verbally.

    “The Play” ended any chance for this team to be considered a dynasty,
    I disagree, dynasties are determined after the fact, only history and/or popular opinion can, or will, make that determination, but continuing to win will go a long way in helping and I believe as long as Russell can play, this team can win.

    It certainly did end any talk of a dynasty at that time. Had we won, we would have been the first NFL team in years to win back-to-back championships and no doubt the "D" word would have been part of the national conversation moving forward. We will have to win another Super Bowl and then win another within a year or two for that word to re-enter the conversation again. Of course, this would go for any team able to accomplish that. It's rare and why you never hear of dynasties these days where the QB isn't named Brady nor the coach named Belichick.

    “The Play” will forever define the Carroll era,
    I disagree, two lucky catches that cost two Super Bowls certainly didn’t define the Belichick era, winning games, getting there, and winning did. I believe Pete and this team have more wins ahead them contrary to the, seemingly, current popular opinion.

    The media will always want to remind everyone of "The Play". Unfortunately, anytime the Seattle Seahawks meet with success or play in big games, that footage will likely be shown for the rest of our lives and our children's lives. But I agree that it won't ultimately be PC's "Story" here in Seattle. He's already done what no other Seahawks coach has been able to do and that's win a Super Bowl. Nothing can ever alter that narrative. Ever.

    “The Play” was this team’s high water mark and their window is rapidly closing,
    I disagree, call me an optimist if you must, but great teams have similar things in common. A good owner, check. A good front office, check. A good coach, check. A good quarterback, check.

    You are right, the Seahawks still have a lot of key ingredients to sustain success over the long term. My comments on the window being all but closed is in reference to this particular roster, right now. The LOB is getting up there in age. It's rare for all 3 of them to be on the field for more than a 3 or 4 game stretch. So when I refer to the window almost closed, I am talking about the LOB Era, not the Seattle Seahawks moving forward and what they may look like in 2, 3 years from now. As long as Paul Allen is our owner and Russell Wilson is our Quarterback, I will always think we will be a competitive team in this league.

    “The Play” will always be a dark cloud over everything they do from here on out,
    I not only disagree, I’d hope nobody would ever pin their fandom on such a petty concept, but if you/they want to, okay, I choose to walk in the sunshine, after all, I’m an optimist.

    It will only be a dark cloud as long as the team's collective subconscious allows it to be. Nothing will ever change the outcome of that game and the "what if's" of that game, but winning cures all in this league. I never was an Al Davis fan growing up but one thing he was always dead on was, "Just win baby."
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  • They've never looked like the same Legion of Boom since that game. Very seldomly do you see thrm dpminste the eay they once did. But that msy be because pf age, injuties, and poor drafting.

    They may beat the Rams and win the division. But this team isn't winning in Philly and Minny to get to the SB.
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  • Siouxhawk wrote:Fidelishawk, you certainly detailed in specifics many of the thoughts I've had on The Play with your excellent posts in this thread. I enjoyed reading your breakdown.

    It's been documented over and over again that the Hawks have recovered from a Super Bowl defeat better than any team in modern history. And that's a testament to both the players and the coaching staff.

    It's losing organizations like the Browns that would be fractured by a loss like that and would respond by making petty personnel moves. That's exactly what losers do.

    Pete and John understand the bigger picture and have made this the golden era in franchise history.


    Well thank you Sioux, while my opinions may not quite toe the party line as closely as your posts do, generally I choose to lean much closer to your ideal than the other extreme.

    What I find amusing in the world of internet forums no matter how articulately you present your ideas, opinions, thoughts or arguments in the end we’re just on an internet forum and our ideas, opinions, thoughts or arguments mean nothing to anyone but ourselves. Thought for the day :)
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  • Aros your response sounds more, dare I say, hopeful, cheerful? I’d like to think our little debate brought back the optimist I know is always in you.

    You were sounding a little down in your OP, hope I helped and thanks for the discourse ;)
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  • It's nice to see a good post with quality replys.
    No need for me to say too much as FidelisHawk's views mirror most of mine.
    People seem to forget in that SB we had 3 all-pros playing seriously hurt and another out before half.
    I feel we get the worst breaks injury wise,all you have to do is look at every season since that game.
    Bennett has been playing all year with that painful foot injury,he gets my respect for that.


    FidelisHawk:I hope we can see more of you going foward.. :irishdrinkers:
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  • IndyHawk wrote:It's nice to see a good post with quality replys.
    No need for me to say too much as FidelisHawk's views mirror most of mine.
    People seem to forget in that SB we had 3 all-pros playing seriously hurt and another out before half.
    I feel we get the worst breaks injury wise,all you have to do is look at every season since that game.
    Bennett has been playing all year with that painful foot injury,he gets my respect for that.


    FidelisHawk:I hope we can see more of you going foward.. :irishdrinkers:


    The Chargers and Ravens of the past couple of years might have something to say about that.
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  • You fire Bevell after that game in the off-season! That was the right call IMHO someone has to fall on that sword for the belief system to stay in place . By not firing the OC it caused a stench to linger far longer than it should have ! Accountability is what was lost if it’s for the players it should have been for the coaches as well . That’s my 2 cents worth
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  • hawkfannj wrote:You fire Bevell after that game in the off-season! That was the right call IMHO someone has to fall on that sword for the belief system to stay in place . By not firing the OC it caused a stench to linger far longer than it should have ! Accountability is what was lost if it’s for the players it should have been for the coaches as well . That’s my 2 cents worth


    I think your opinion is one that a lot of other fans have as well.

    I only suggest the stench, you speak of, has lingered far too long with fans, and is more momentous to them, than it is for the coaches or players.
    "Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis."
    Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe.
    (St. Augustine of Hippo)

    "Perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim."
    (“Ovid”)
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    FidelisHawk
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  • Neither OP nor any NFL commentator have the ability to reach into players' minds and know what's getting to them.

    Nor does making the playoffs every year since "The Play" constitute "not recovering". In fact, it constitutes a defiance of parity rarely seen in the NFL.

    For flippin' sake, Todd, you can't win the Super Bowl every year.
    GO HAWKS!!!

    Visit my Seahawks blog at 17power.blogspot.com!
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    MontanaHawk05
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  • Siouxhawk wrote:
    It's been documented over and over again that the Hawks have recovered from a Super Bowl defeat better than any team in modern history. And that's a testament to both the players and the coaching staff.
    .


    Yeah the Broncos winning the SB 2 years after losing it was clearly not as good as this Seahawk decline.

    And to Aros, you're exactly right. This team has sadly never been quite the same since the play. Lack of accountability, Carroll's refusal to evolve, adapt and bring in new blood with coaches to infuse a spark has proven detrimental. Carroll still believes in basic schemes and winning by simply having more talent. It doesn't work anymore.

    Even when this team was healthy earlier in the year, they weren't playing great and it's been a gradual but noticeable decline the past 3 years. Still competitive, but not a contender. I don't see much changing next year because Carroll never does change anything.
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    West TX Hawk
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  • If you have a system, by which you preach earning your spot and competing for your right to be there - you are defining the very validation of the right to hold the job based on the ability to produce.

    If then, you fail to produce, then demanding that accountability of others is going to be difficult.

    When Bevell or Cable says "Do Your Job!", the player can rightfully in their head circle back to the reality that both coaches are substandard producers and have little right to demand production when they repeatedly don't produce themselves.

    Now you can argue that they are the boss, etc, but human nature says when someone demands something of another they they don't follow the same rule on, there is friction/resentment/passive-aggressive pseudo production.

    "Why should I kill myself for this *sshole?" becomes the internal voice you have to shake off.

    If you preach meritocracy and then you seem to have different rules for the ones that preach? That is going to create problems. And it did.
    TwistedHusky
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  • This team is atrocious from top to bottom. Time to get rid of some coaches & players. Enough is enough!!
    Hawker8989
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  • I believe that the decline started with the loss to NE. Trust in coaches was destroyed but the talent was still there. That's why playoffs still happened. However, now injuries are mounting and players aren't buying in anymore.

    So yes they never got over the play IMO.
    Shanegotyou11
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  • West TX Hawk wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:
    It's been documented over and over again that the Hawks have recovered from a Super Bowl defeat better than any team in modern history. And that's a testament to both the players and the coaching staff.
    .


    Yeah the Broncos winning the SB 2 years after losing it was clearly not as good as this Seahawk decline.

    And to Aros, you're exactly right. This team has sadly never been quite the same since the play. Lack of accountability, Carroll's refusal to evolve, adapt and bring in new blood with coaches to infuse a spark has proven detrimental. Carroll still believes in basic schemes and winning by simply having more talent. It doesn't work anymore.

    Even when this team was healthy earlier in the year, they weren't playing great and it's been a gradual but noticeable decline the past 3 years. Still competitive, but not a contender. I don't see much changing next year because Carroll never does change anything.


    And the Broncos lost 7 games in a row, being worse than they have been in a really long time, just 2 years after their SB win. It is hard to win the Superbowl and stay one of the best teams...
    "It's payback, Russell Wilson falling way back, in the draft, turn nothing into something"
    "Pretty soon DirectTV is going to be using our o-line as an example of what can happen when you cut Cable."
    rossob
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