Underrated play by Geno

[knownone]

It’s exactly what you’ve done to anyone who disagrees. You made the comment “they will never get it” as if anyone who disagrees is too stupid to see it your way. So it’s just me, I couldn’t care less about that it’s turned into how you talk to anyone who disagrees.

I honestly don’t believe you because if you truly thought he was in the 8-14 range you wouldn’t get mad at someone who puts him in the 12-17 range.

Uh, where did I say "they will never get it"? Either you've bastardized my above comment to Mael about entrenched perspectives, or you've wholly fabricated a comment to fit your argument.

That's fine. If you think you can read minds—by all means—I'm just not going to waste time defending positions you believe I have that I've never stated. Call me goofy, I guess.

 

[Ozzy]

Uh, where did I say "they will never get it"? Either you've bastardized my above comment to Mael about entrenched perspectives, or you've wholly fabricated a comment to fit your argument.

That's fine. If you think you can read minds—by all means—I'm just not going to waste time defending positions you believe I have that I've never stated. Call me goofy, I guess.

You didn’t say no amount of evidence will ever convince them? Really?

 

[Ozzy]

 

[knownone]

View attachment 63051

That's not the exclusionary perspective of "they will never get it," PNW. That's me telling a specific user that no amount of analysis will change people's minds. The context here is not to waste time spilling ink on the issue because the same voices will push back, and their opinions are entrenched.

Now, how did you conclude that comment implies that I think people who disagree are stupid or whatever?

 

[Ozzy]

That's not the exclusionary perspective of "they will never get it," PNW. That's me telling a specific user that no amount of analysis will change people's minds. The context here is not to waste time spilling ink on the issue because the same voices will push back, and their opinions are entrenched.

Now, how did you conclude that comment implies that I think people who disagree are stupid or whatever?

You don’t get to decide how people take your comments. What you said implies people are too stupid to get it.

Also would you say your position is not entrenched and only your side is open to the truth? What does that imply?

 

[Maelstrom787]

Geno Smith is not over or underated. He just sucks!

Thoughtful reply, full of excellent reasoning and convincing points.

 

[knownone]

You don’t get to decide how people take your comments. What you said implies people are too stupid to get it.

Also would you say your position is not entrenched and only your side is open to the truth? What does that imply?

You are correct. I don't get to decide how people take my comments. But I also offered a clarification in this thread when talking with Pitt, and I conceded his points (because he was spot on with his criticism) while clarifying my intentions for that post. Did you read that? Here it is:

I understand. My point is that the statement was intended for one person and was not meant to be a general commentary on what Geno would need to do to prove people wrong.

Obviously, there are things he could do to change the perception surrounding him. Right. He could win an MVP, a Super Bowl, or, as you've suggested, a playoff game. That's all fine and relevant in the abstract. But my comment toward Mael wasn't meant to address what Geno needed to do. It was meant to sympathize with someone using the currently available evidence to argue in favor of Geno and is running into the proverbial brick wall.

So, while I respect your personal opinion on Geno, I don't think my initial comment was wrong because it was never meant to be taken literally.

No. I never said my position was not entrenched or that only my side was open to the truth. Again, I don't know how you come to these conclusions, and I have no idea how to approach answering them. Obviously, I am preferential to my own perspective, but I'm fully aware that my bias skews in favor of Geno.

 

[Ozzy]

honestly man it feels like you’re trolling me most of the time and you only interact to disagree or argue. I’ve stated multiple times Geno is underrated by this fan base, the Seahawks can win with him etc and yet you never comment. You only engage when it’s in a negative fashion. Maybe I am reading way too much into your style but it just seems dismissive and combative as of late which is too bad because you didn’t used to he that way. And yes maybe it’s partially me and not understanding where you’re coming from. I fully admit this could be partially my fault. I’m at a loss here.

 

[Maelstrom787]

From PNW25: Maelstrom I deleted this not for anything you said but to get rid of the original post from the other poster.

 

[scutterhawk]

If I were geno, I'd want to play somewhere else. Our running game is warm / cold (mostly cold) at best. The O-line cant block consistently, and the defense gives up too many points and provides too few opportunities for the offense. Shane is... I dont know what Shane is, but i think the jury is still out.

He has to play almost perfect football to keep us in games

I'm OKAY with the idea that >IF< the Seahawks could TRADE him for a shot at getting Penix Jr. in the Draft? OKAY, but I Would HATE like hell to see Geno go for anything less.
In a perfect world, the Seahawks LUCK OUT and Penix Jr. becomes a Seahawk and Geno mentors the kid, OR Penix Jr. wins out just like Russell Wilson did way back when.

 

[Titus Pullo]

This whole thread won't age well if we lose against the Cardinals because of another untimely Geno interception or fumble.

If we draft a QB with all the physical characteristics of a prototypical QB, we will have another Geno and Lock clone.

Geno and Drew have the size, arm, accuracy, and mobility but they just don't have it upstairs.

The last people I want grooming a drafted QB are Lock and Geno.

 

[hgwellz12]

From PNW25: Maelstrom I deleted this not for anything you said but to get rid of the original post from the other poster.

I was hoping that the bullshit would just be ignored in the first place. I'm sure Mael gave him the business, tho.

 

[Ozzy]

I was hoping that the bullshit would just be ignored in the first place. I'm sure Mael gave him the business, tho.

Yeah maelstrom handled it well. Sorry I missed it the first time around

 

[Fresno Hawk]

The way the rules are now days, it's designed to help the offense. Geno can have top ten statistical number's but it won't mean he is a top ten quarterback. The impact one individual has on a team matters. If we don't have Geno next year what kind Impact will it have on our team. Is it replaceable , I think so.

 

[Ozzy]

I do think Geno is a little better than I’ve given him credit for when you dive into the metrics but most of the advanced metrics still put him in the <top 10 range and that’s with fantastic wr room hence why i have him in the next 10 guys grouping. Good for sure, probably not great and in this league it’s really, really hard to make a SB without a great QB. We all know the three or so names like Foles, Dilfer, Flacco although I’d argue he was really good for a time etc

It’s why with this coaching staff I’ll always lean towards trying to get that elite QB. I don’t trust them to build an elite defense which I think Geno could win with so the easiest path is trusting John to scout a QB like he did with Wilson.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

I’m basing mine off calling back to back runs to charbonnet in the red zone in the most critical drive of the Rams game netting a FG. Then did the same thing vs the niners.

Last i checked we have a matchup nightmare in locket/JSN, a strong hands reliable threat in bobo, a huge human in Fant , AND DK, so according to my math charbonnet is my option like 8.

Secondly i didn’t understand the game plan vs SF. We repeatedly attacked Ward, who is a pro bowler btw, when they had literally just lost their Pro Bowl safety Hufonga like the week before. Only when we started hitting spaces in the middle did we have a productive drive. Duh.

Which brings me to my next point- i don’t understand why we are so ‘outside oriented’ in the passing game. I know we’re going to be in the upper part of the league based on Tyler being good at comebacks and inside out concepts, and DK can go to work out there, but Dissly and Fant and more than serviceable and JSN and Bobo are tough enough to find seams. I firmly recall a strength of this offense was hitting TE and slot seams about 14 yds deep in stride for big gains and forcing the middle defensive players to tighten up inside, then opening up big plays to the sidelines.

That has completely vanished under Waldron.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

This is one that I thought looked sloppy live, but on replay here with the all-22 Griff posted, this is pretty damn good. He knows where to go with the ball immediately with huge pressure straight in his face, he is fundamentally adept enough to get the ball off accurately, and he is savvy enough to pause and negotiate enough space and hesitation from the rusher to allow that throw.



Geno's had a down year, but tape wise, I think he's putting a lot of really good stuff out there in a difficult and dysfunctional situation.

I've had my criticisms of Waldron and still do, and I'd still want him fired... but really, I'd mostly want that because I want an OC who can appreciably elevate the offensive line just through coaching prowess alone, which is why I keep plugging Kromer. Dickerson looked good initially, but how much of that was just the scouts and FO hitting big on Lucas and hitting mildly on Cross, ya know?

I maintain that Geno has the talent, the operative skill, the arm, and the poise to be legit top 10. I don't want to pay him big cap in the teams current situation, but honestly? Not the end of the world if we do, because any prospect we'd be in a position to draft is a prospect that I would really, really want to have as a backup for a year to acclimate to the NFL game.

Geno operating well might've been the sole bright spot from this game, aside from K9 running like a man.

I've bitched about both Geno and Lock this year. And I've taken it back. Ya know, Geno's not a bad QB people.

He's had a bunch of pressure in his face. He's had an alphabet soup of Oline combinations, some working, some not. AND STILL he's ranked 19th out or 68 QB's in the league. He's had 2.4 seconds in the pocket, compared to a 2.7 in a Lamar - and he's 13th in Yards in the passing game.

Behind a kickass line, I don't see anything wrong with keeping him on, and just drafting a QBOTF behind him to learn. A Geno/Lock/QBOTF would NOT bother me for a year or two. Geno ain't the problem. Yes, he has a brain fart or two. Yup, I'd probably have problems trying to hit JSN on a crossing route with only 1.3 seconds to sort it out. He's a grinder, he's a leader, and he's OK in my book. Yup, let's bitch about the playcalling, and the lack of TE usage - but that ain't on Geno.

We got 99 problems, and Geno Smith ain't one.

 

[Ozzy]

I've bitched about both Geno and Lock this year. And I've taken it back. Ya know, Geno's not a bad QB people.

He's had a bunch of pressure in his face. He's had an alphabet soup of Oline combinations, some working, some not. AND STILL he's ranked 19th out or 68 QB's in the league. He's had 2.4 seconds in the pocket, compared to a 2.7 in a Lamar - and he's 13th in Yards in the passing game.

Behind a kickass line, I don't see anything wrong with keeping him on, and just drafting a QBOTF behind him to learn. A Geno/Lock/QBOTF would NOT bother me for a year or two. Geno ain't the problem. Yes, he has a brain fart or two. Yup, I'd probably have problems trying to hit JSN on a crossing route with only 1.3 seconds to sort it out. He's a grinder, he's a leader, and he's OK in my book. Yup, let's bitch about the playcalling, and the lack of TE usage - but that ain't on Geno.

We got 99 problems, and Geno Smith ain't one.

Meh a lot of QBs are playing behind a bad line. The Niners line I believe is worse and Purdy is playing well. I do agree with the overall point that Geno isn’t a bad QB and he’s not even remotely close to our biggest problem. I just don’t think this staff is capable of giving our biggest problem so I want John to get his guy and hope we can get an elite QB because of it. But again I understand people wanting to keep Geno and with a great line(they’ve never been able to do that) he can win for sure

 

[CalgaryFan05]

Meh a lot of QBs are playing behind a bad line. The Niners line I believe is worse and Purdy is playing well. I do agree with the overall point that Geno isn’t a bad QB and he’s not even remotely close to our biggest problem. I just don’t think this staff is capable of giving our biggest problem so I want John to get his guy and hope we can get an elite QB because of it. But again I understand people wanting to keep Geno and with a great line(they’ve never been able to do that) he can win for sure

Purdy's got 2.6 seconds. Although I think that it's a bit of a misleading stat. It's a combined 'time to throw or start of pressure'. So, if there wasn't alot of pressure, but dude throws early - it looks like he has less time.

Anyhow. The one thing I do find amusing about the whole geno/lock/qbotf 'thing' - and this is slightly off topic, is that even if we drafted Penix - it's not like he's gonna come in and put up Brady/Mahomes numbers in his FIRST year. I get the vibe that 'Draft Penix' = "Next season magically fixed!" to many people - and that's just not the case, IMO.

I stand by my current, and ever-waffling and changing position that Geno is OK with me. Start him next year. I do believe he's slightly underrated.

 

[Ozzy]

Purdy's got 2.6 seconds. Although I think that it's a bit of a misleading stat. It's a combined 'time to throw or start of pressure'. So, if there wasn't alot of pressure, but dude throws early - it looks like he has less time.

Anyhow. The one thing I do find amusing about the whole geno/lock/qbotf 'thing' - and this is slightly off topic, is that even if we drafted Penix - it's not like he's gonna come in and put up Brady/Mahomes numbers in his FIRST year. I get the vibe that 'Draft Penix' = "Next season magically fixed!" to many people - and that's just not the case, IMO.

I stand by my current, and ever-waffling and changing position that Geno is OK with me. Start him next year. I do believe he's slightly underrated.

I respect your opinion and acknowledge it’s probably more reasonable than my approach. I’m ok with Geno next year if based on draft position John doesn’t have his guy because teams forcing the position are almost always wrong