Fred Jackson + Thomas Rawls (vs C.Michael + R.Turbin)

That subject line alone should make you happy. How awesome have these guys been?

In the famous crowd-singalong-words-of-Sweet-Caroline

SO GOOD! SO GOOD! SO GOOD!

Michael and Turbin SUCKED at reading their blockers and breaking tackles, though they were each much faster than Rawls/Jackson.

I am glad to be done with them after seeing the way Rawls/Jackson have been running the football behind a young offensive line that is still finding its way.

Only three games in and I'm loving it. I really wanted Rawls to stick, but was a little apprehensive about losing both Turbs and Mike, but hey, so far so good. Or should I say so great?

The way Rawls ran the ball, just wait in 2-5 years when we have an offensive line.

I agree that these two are better than the Turbin/Michaels duo. However, with the Oline struggling so much I would have thought they would use Jackson a little more often in pass protection. After all, he's one of the best blocking backs in the league. Seems like an asset that we're not taking advantage of.

We have seen Jackson and Rawls do more in 3 games than Michael and Turbin in the past 2-3 years. I think the only times Turbin ever broke a big run it was called back too.

marko358":11bz01zg said:

I agree that these two are better than the Turbin/Michaels duo. However, with the Oline struggling so much I would have thought they would use Jackson a little more often in pass protection. After all, he's one of the best blocking backs in the league. Seems like an asset that we're not taking advantage of.

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Instead they have Jimmy blocking. :roll:

To be fair, Michael and Turbin never really got the opportunity that Rawls/Jackson had this Sunday. People seem to forget that Turbin once rushed for 108 yards in a single half during his rookie season (albeit against a bad Arizona team that wasn't much better than this Chicago team). Michael also flashed brilliance in spurts, though his preseason gaffes always made him a question mark.

That said, Rawls's decisiveness and willingness to inflict contact looked good yesterday, though he looked his best when the game was already well decided. Jackson's a pro; we know what we're getting there.

Not convinced Turbin/Michael couldn't have looked great in a similar scenario, but we press on. The last game was definitely an encouraging sign for our present situation. Run blocking needs to improve, but Rawls appears to have some good tools and the right motor.

I was/am a big Turbin fan. I've complimented him quite a bit on these boards.

That said, the eye test tells me I am so much happier with Jackson and Rawls

My eye test

Turbin: solid runner, but great as a backup only. If he had to do that for an entire game I would be curious about his durability. Also I never saw him breaking for more than 10 yards because as soon as he got to the next level it looked like he was looking to dive and get yardage. Not necessarily bad, in a backup you want a guy who you have confidence can pull out a 5 to 9 yarder. But the way he dove, I would seriously get worried about him getting hit and his durability similar to how Matt Forte got bent back in yesterday's game

Michael: looks athletic, but a spaz. Way out of control. I would hold my breath waiting to see if he'd explode for 20 to 30 or if he'd get knocked back for a loss or get knocked for a fumble.

vs.

Jackson: polished. veteran. Very at ease and a lot of composure. Great 3rd down back similar to how I think we were using Turbin last year. Give Marshawn a break (and Rawls). And I'd almost think of him as consistent 3 to 5 yard gainer from a run or a pass. That little skip pass to save a huge sack loss yesterday from Russell to Jackson, to me that smacked of experience. He could sense the length of the play, he could sense the rush, and knew he was open and turned to be an open target for Russell

Rawls: he looks young, durable, solid and in control. Doesn't look to dive for yardage, looks to finish a run. I would worry about his durability if he were a vet, but as a rookie he's at the beginning of his career. More importantly, he looks in control. Every movement looks deliberate. Great body control, his movements are CONSISTENT if that makes sense. Arms, legs, everything working together in coordination

To me the two new guys seem just very in control and deliberate of their style of running, something I didn't realize we didn't have because I was alright with Michael and Turbin. But now seeing what we have with Jackson and Rawls, I'm so much happier. Rawls seems a capable replacement for the a "majority of downs" back for Lynch if Lynch needs a break, only time will tell. And Jackson is a polished presence for 3rd down and 4th down and crucial situations.

I can't get on board with Michael sucked when he ran the ball. I thought he looked very good at times. I still think Michael has a chance to be a star but the team felt it was best to let him go. Rawls did impress me yesterday and we will see how it plays out.

Good post Davidseven

austinslater25":3g631ehu said:

I can't get on board with Michael sucked when he ran the ball. I thought he looked very good at times. I still think Michael has a chance to be a star but the team felt it was best to let him go. Rawls did impress me yesterday and we will see how it plays out.

Good post Davidseven

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I agree that Michael is very athletic and explosive. He did look very good at times. However, I always thought he looked out of control and a bit reckless and so it made me nervous everytime he got the ball. He also seemed a bit undisciplined. I think Rawls so far is an improvement over Michael.

austinslater25":2ljeltut said:

I can't get on board with Michael sucked when he ran the ball. I thought he looked very good at times. I still think Michael has a chance to be a star but the team felt it was best to let him go. Rawls did impress me yesterday and we will see how it plays out.

Good post Davidseven

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Given that Christine can't even get on the field for the Cowboys, who are using a committee approach, I have an egg timer set for how long you maintain that opinion. We traded him for a conditional 7th Rounder for God's sake.

Rawls reads his blockers adequately, he demonstrated the ability to break tackles and gain yards after contact, he finished runs violently, and he showed excellent ball security. Those are four things Christine has not done in 2+ years in the league.

That is not to say Rawls is guaranteed to be a great RB, as this was only one game against a bad team, but it does show he has certain important qualities that Christine lacks.

I thought Rawls played well yesterday and we have a solid depth option with Fred Jackson at present. I suspect it is a tad early to say who is better in terms of which pair. My suspicion is the new pair will prove superior as Michael was frequently inactive. Jackson has great hands and is a solid 3rd down double threat who can block. I doubt he is often inactive and suspect we will a lot more from Rawls.

Jackson is better than any of them in terms of talent and experience. He's done it better for longer and it shows by how polished he is.

Rawls is more physical. he's not a fast as Turbin, but he's quicker side to side and doesn't fall down at first contact. I haven't seen him enough to know how good he is at pass pro, and that drop is not just a rookie thing. Seriously, he had a ton of green grass in front of him, and there's vets in the league that drop that pass occasionally.

DavidSeven":n84z4q6k said:

To be fair, Michael and Turbin never really got the opportunity that Rawls/Jackson had this Sunday. People seem to forget that Turbin once rushed for 108 yards in a single half during his rookie season (albeit against a bad Arizona team that wasn't much better than this Chicago team).

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Turbin is severely underrated on this board. He is never going to be a star RB but he was a solid backup. And he most likely would have made this roster over Rawls if he had not gotten injured.

HawkFan72":3o17qm6k said:

DavidSeven":3o17qm6k said:

To be fair, Michael and Turbin never really got the opportunity that Rawls/Jackson had this Sunday. People seem to forget that Turbin once rushed for 108 yards in a single half during his rookie season (albeit against a bad Arizona team that wasn't much better than this Chicago team).

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Turbin is severely underrated on this board. He is never going to be a star RB but he was a solid backup. And he most likely would have made this roster over Rawls if he had not gotten injured.

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I disagree. I think they would have gone with Turbin as the 3rd down back and Rawls as the developmental prospect, potential every-down back. Fred Jackson was signed for a million dollars due to Turbin's injury.

HawkFan72":jaqg6cso said:

DavidSeven":jaqg6cso said:

To be fair, Michael and Turbin never really got the opportunity that Rawls/Jackson had this Sunday. People seem to forget that Turbin once rushed for 108 yards in a single half during his rookie season (albeit against a bad Arizona team that wasn't much better than this Chicago team).

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Turbin is severely underrated on this board. He is never going to be a star RB but he was a solid backup. And he most likely would have made this roster over Rawls if he had not gotten injured.

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Agree with you Hawkfan.

I loved Turbin but when you consider yard after contact Rawls is better. Turbin doesn't have the balance of Rawls and could be taken down easier.

*Fred Jackson has looked great other than a fumble that more or less occurred in garbage time. It's shocking to think he's 34 year old, he looks like he's in his prime so far. I wish Seattle would use him more.

*Thomas Rawls strikes me as a situation dependent RB who is capable of being very good in the right situations. A really good comp for him is Ahmad Bradshaw. I had to laugh when I looked up Rawls' bio and saw that he got busted for stealing a 62 year old woman's purse just last year. A friggin' purse snatcher! I'm all for second chances, I just thought it was really funny because it is so fitting. Rawls runs the football like he just stole something. He runs with incredible urgency.

*Christine Michael was one of my college crush RBs along with guys like Knile Davis. Yes, they had issues to work out, but the talent just jumped off the screen with those two. Seattle drafted Michael right after trading a 1st and 3rd for Harvin- the Seahawks desperately wanted to add explosiveness that offseason and I think they hoped that Michael could take some carries away from Lynch.

Unfortunately, both Harvin and Michael frustrated coaches beyond salvaging before they ever had a chance to click in the offense. I don't know if Michael will get his chances elsewhere, but even if he becomes a star in Dallas, I won't blame Seattle for moving on. It's the same reason I don't blame the Mariners for dumping Ackley (who has a .976 OPS since leaving Seattle). They tried and tried and tried. It wasn't going to work here.

*I thought Turbin was one of the most under-rated RBs in the 2012 draft, and was excited to get him. But he's just never been the same guy in the NFL. At Utah State, he was a big play machine. In the NFL he's mostly been 3 yards and a cloud of dust. And when he did get a big play, they'd always be called back.

I get why some fans like him, but I thought that the NFL version of Turbin was a bad RB trending towards average. He reminded me a lot of Julius Jones. Turbin has a career 4.0 YPC average and one of the lowest elusive ratings in the league every season. I personally hope we've seen the last of Turbin. Not because he's horrible, but because he has no upside at all for Cable's system, and right now Seattle needs to be committing roster spots to RBs that have at least a chance of properly succeeding Marshawn.

*Overall, I think the team did the right thing by going with Rawls and Jackson as the backup RBs. Rawls has a chance to etch out a long term role with the team, and Jackson is a huge short term upgrade over Turbin, who might have been done with the Seahawks after this season anyway.

HawkFan72":3pijv3gm said:

DavidSeven":3pijv3gm said:

To be fair, Michael and Turbin never really got the opportunity that Rawls/Jackson had this Sunday. People seem to forget that Turbin once rushed for 108 yards in a single half during his rookie season (albeit against a bad Arizona team that wasn't much better than this Chicago team).

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Turbin is severely underrated on this board. He is never going to be a star RB but he was a solid backup. And he most likely would have made this roster over Rawls if he had not gotten injured.

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Had a couple of big runs in the ATL Div playoff game.