According to PFF Bennett and Avril are...

1st and 3rd in QB hurries.

Chew on that for a bit, I'll wait.

Cause they are beast. You wont find a post on .net of me bagging on those two. Sacks are not the only stat for D-lineman. They are just the flashiest.

Is that a way of saying, "Always the bridesmaid, never the bride"?

I jest!

Our defense as a whole has improved greatly over the past few weeks, and pass rush is a big reason for that improvement. We are currently ranked 4th in total defense in the league. Not bad considering the opponents we started our season against.

Simon will continue to develop. Lane comes back, Max comes back and all of a sudden you will start to see Bennett and Avril get home more often. They will have that second longer they need to finish it up.

I think the pass rush issue isn't with Avril and Bennett, but with the lack of pressure in the middle. Avril and Bennett are great at forcing pressure, but we're not getting the same push in the middle to keep the QB from stepping up in the pocket. Hill's been injured, and while Mebane is awesome, I don't think we're getting the same results from McDaniel/Williams as we were getting from McDonald.

In a related note, Clemons' departure could be having an effect, as well. I recall that he and Avril would rush and Bennett would move inside a lot last year. Has Bennett been moving inside as much this season? Is Schofield providing enough pressure when Bennett does move inside?

I haven't watched closely enough to know... would love to hear from someone who has studied the games this season.

hopefully Jordan hill can return and be the inside guy we hoped he would be in that mix.

volsunghawk":1j1m47d3 said:

In a related note, Clemons' departure could be having an effect, as well. I recall that he and Avril would rush and Bennett would move inside a lot last year. Has Bennett been moving inside as much this season? Is Schofield providing enough pressure when Bennett does move inside?

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That's where not having Marsh hurts.

Very interesting.

Teams are a lot more intent to attack Seattle with the underneath stuff than they've been in the past. A lot of short, quick throws. I think Seattle is getting after the QBs, but the ball is just getting out a touch quicker. They really seem to be affecting the QBs who aren't adept at the short-game strategy (Newton, Carr). You also have to consider that they've played quite a few QBs who are money-makers on third down, Rivers and Romo in particular.

DavidSeven":16mp2gxd said:

Teams are a lot more intent to attack Seattle with the underneath stuff than they've been in the past. A lot of short, quick throws. I think Seattle is getting after the QBs, but the ball is just getting out a touch quicker. They really seem to be affecting the QBs who aren't adept at the short-game strategy (Newton, Carr). You also have to consider that they've played quite a few QBs who are money-makers on third down, Rivers and Romo in particular.

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Yup, exactly. They're also attacking right where Wags and/or a hobbled Kam are. Sometimes Smith who has been abysmal.

pehawk":3f5e7k67 said:

1st and 3rd in QB hurries.

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That's precisely the problem. They're "hurrying" the QB but they're not actually getting to him enough and finishing. This is tantamount to leading the NBA in fouls drawn and being a 35% FT shooter.

volsunghawk":3r2ltj3x said:

I think the pass rush issue isn't with Avril and Bennett, but with the lack of pressure in the middle. Avril and Bennett are great at forcing pressure, but we're not getting the same push in the middle to keep the QB from stepping up in the pocket. Hill's been injured, and while Mebane is awesome, I don't think we're getting the same results from McDaniel/Williams as we were getting from McDonald.

In a related note, Clemons' departure could be having an effect, as well. I recall that he and Avril would rush and Bennett would move inside a lot last year. Has Bennett been moving inside as much this season? Is Schofield providing enough pressure when Bennett does move inside?

I haven't watched closely enough to know... would love to hear from someone who has studied the games this season.

Click to expand...

McQuinstan was the guy who got the serious push up the middle. He's gone. We lost depth on the dline too, so they're not coming in hungry and fresh. Avril's playing starter minutes now, when before he was only playing half the snaps. Losting those three d-line guys, to me, is what's wrong with our defense. It's still good, but last year it was one of the best defenses of all time.

If the team's interior pass rush could flush the QB out of the pocket towards either of Bennett or Avril their sack totals would take off.

volsunghawk":347d6vky said:

I think the pass rush issue isn't with Avril and Bennett, but with the lack of pressure in the middle. Avril and Bennett are great at forcing pressure, but we're not getting the same push in the middle to keep the QB from stepping up in the pocket. Hill's been injured, and while Mebane is awesome, I don't think we're getting the same results from McDaniel/Williams as we were getting from McDonald.

In a related note, Clemons' departure could be having an effect, as well. I recall that he and Avril would rush and Bennett would move inside a lot last year. Has Bennett been moving inside as much this season? Is Schofield providing enough pressure when Bennett does move inside?

I haven't watched closely enough to know... would love to hear from someone who has studied the games this season.

Click to expand...

This is exactly right and I agree 100% w/ all. Avril and Bennett are still there providing the same exact outside pressure but we are lacking that middle pressure allowing the QB's to step up just exactly like 2012. It was great to finely see that middle pressure last year but now we lost it again. As much as I liked a healthy Clem here, I think we would be fine w/out him this year if we had that middle pressure back. Of course, having Clem for rotational help would certainly be a nice luxury to have don't get me wrong.

I also agree w/ the shorter quick passes hurting us bad this year, as some mentioned earlier, making us just not quite able to get there quick enough.

The last thing I will add (please do not take this as ref whining) is the amount of OL holding being allowed this year league wide seems to be really high. I watch a lot of other games, in fact parts of most all, and they just seem to be letting Oline guys get away w/ bad holding like full on tackles and wrap ups this year.

Lords of Scythia":3sfz2a9d said:

volsunghawk":3sfz2a9d said:

I think the pass rush issue isn't with Avril and Bennett, but with the lack of pressure in the middle. Avril and Bennett are great at forcing pressure, but we're not getting the same push in the middle to keep the QB from stepping up in the pocket. Hill's been injured, and while Mebane is awesome, I don't think we're getting the same results from McDaniel/Williams as we were getting from McDonald.

In a related note, Clemons' departure could be having an effect, as well. I recall that he and Avril would rush and Bennett would move inside a lot last year. Has Bennett been moving inside as much this season? Is Schofield providing enough pressure when Bennett does move inside?

I haven't watched closely enough to know... would love to hear from someone who has studied the games this season.

Click to expand...

McQuinstan was the guy who got the serious push up the middle. He's gone. We lost depth on the dline too, so they're not coming in hungry and fresh. Avril's playing starter minutes now, when before he was only playing half the snaps. Losting those three d-line guys, to me, is what's wrong with our defense. It's still good, but last year it was one of the best defenses of all time.

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I think you mean Clinton McDonald, the only time McQuistan got serious push up the middle is when he was playing Offensive Guard and blocking defenders for Marshawn Lynch.

Certainly the DL rotation last year helped, but DavidSeven's observation about teams getting the ball out quicker on us this year has been a bigger factor than I think a lot of people realize.

Honestly, I agree with above poster .. I think part of it has to do with Officating.

I've seen plenty of instances where our O-Line will get called for ticky-tack to downright phantom holds but they'll look the other way for the other team unless its really egregious. And sometimes even then it won't be called, for example, Trent Williams was allowed to throw a block into Irvin's face mask (illegal hands to the face) and after he still got beat, he dove and tackled Irvin with a shoestring grab (holding). Same play two non-calls. And I've been seeing stuff like that all season.

And I think a lot of it has to do with luck + just great efforts by opposing QBs... for instance in two of our losses Chargers and Cowboys... and I believe both 3rd down plays...

Avril does his signature strip sack, only to have Rivers to luckilly secure the ball and makes a great effort to escape and finds Antonio Gates for a TD.

And in the Cowboys game we all know what happened on the 3rd and 20.

The pass rush is there and they've been getting pressure I just think its been a combination of things as to why they haven't been finishing and I think that is something that they can fix by the end of the season skill wise in terms of being precise and anticipating where the QB will be and what they are capable of in evading pressure. I also believe that luck will eventually even out and those QBs making great plays in critical situations will be the chances and opportunities where the ball bounces in the Seahawks fortunes, and it will be our guys making great plays in critical situations.

The absence of Wagner has been an issue with opposing offenses favoring a short passing attack. His reactions and closing speed were huge last year in limiting YAC in the middle of the field.

I also agree that Bennett's interior rush is what we are missing. With Irvin at LB and our injuries we don't really have a DE to plug in for Bennett if he slides inside.

Pandion has a great point. I can't count the number of times I see Mike Bennett getting through the line only to have a O Lineman with a struggle cuddle on him "backpack style". It's not being called. Ridiculous.

I definitely agree. The base building block of a great defensive starts with a wide body or two either plugging up the middle on runs or turning the pocket inside out from the middle. For various reasons, at the moment, the Hawks just don't have that. QB's seem to have the room to either step up and throw or escape out the front door.

We're getting close as evidenced by that PFF stat