According to PFF Bennett and Avril are...

[MontanaHawk05]

Teams are a lot more intent to attack Seattle with the underneath stuff than they've been in the past. A lot of short, quick throws. I think Seattle is getting after the QBs, but the ball is just getting out a touch quicker.

This basically means that Seattle is a victim of its own success. The mid-range and long stuff is still mostly shut down by the LOB and the pass rush is active, so offenses are being forced into the short, patient, dink-and-dunk game. This right there is a victory for our defense, because it means that the only game left for the QB is the short, underneath, run-supported stuff, and that's a game that only the most patient, aware QBs in the game can consistently pull off. Eventually, it betrays even the best QBs.

 

[pehawk]

Teams are a lot more intent to attack Seattle with the underneath stuff than they've been in the past. A lot of short, quick throws. I think Seattle is getting after the QBs, but the ball is just getting out a touch quicker.

This basically means that Seattle is a victim of its own success. The mid-range and long stuff is still mostly shut down by the LOB and the pass rush is active, so offenses are being forced into the short, patient, dink-and-dunk game. This right there is a victory for our defense, because it means that the only game left for the QB is the short, underneath, run-supported stuff, and that's a game that only the most patient, aware QBs in the game can consistently pull off. Eventually, it betrays even the best QBs.

Exactly!

It's not coincidence Pete designs defenses to throw the ball into the exact area he instructs his offense NOT to throw it.

If a QB wants to go deep, most of the time it takes a Tony Romo 3rd and 20 play AND a great catch. Or, just a great catch.

 

[cdallan]

I think the team realise we need more interior push on passing downs. I've seen Bennett inside with Irvin at DE on obvious passing downs. Also, either I am just noticing it because we are focusing on it more, but it looks like we are varying things up front more. Early in the Raiders game on an obvious passing down lined up with 3 on the line and Irvin as a stand up rusher in the middle (maybe this spinner role they talked about previously? ) They then used this for zone blitz and dropped Irvin into coverage. I have not gone back and watched it again, but did anybody notice what we were using on Irvin's INT?

 

[Lords of Scythia]

I think the pass rush issue isn't with Avril and Bennett, but with the lack of pressure in the middle. Avril and Bennett are great at forcing pressure, but we're not getting the same push in the middle to keep the QB from stepping up in the pocket. Hill's been injured, and while Mebane is awesome, I don't think we're getting the same results from McDaniel/Williams as we were getting from McDonald.

In a related note, Clemons' departure could be having an effect, as well. I recall that he and Avril would rush and Bennett would move inside a lot last year. Has Bennett been moving inside as much this season? Is Schofield providing enough pressure when Bennett does move inside?

I haven't watched closely enough to know... would love to hear from someone who has studied the games this season.

McQuinstan was the guy who got the serious push up the middle. He's gone. We lost depth on the dline too, so they're not coming in hungry and fresh. Avril's playing starter minutes now, when before he was only playing half the snaps. Losting those three d-line guys, to me, is what's wrong with our defense. It's still good, but last year it was one of the best defenses of all time.

I think you mean Clinton McDonald, the only time McQuistan got serious push up the middle is when he was playing Offensive Guard and blocking defenders for Marshawn Lynch.

Certainly the DL rotation last year helped, but DavidSeven's observation about teams getting the ball out quicker on us this year has been a bigger factor than I think a lot of people realize.

Whoops! Ha ha. Irish names all sound the same to me.

 

[CodeWarrior]

We really need Kam to get over his injury. When teams throw over the middle on us Kim has to light the receiver up. That seems to stop it pretty quickly.

 

[-The Glove-]

1st and 3rd in QB hurries.

That's precisely the problem. They're "hurrying" the QB but they're not actually getting to him enough and finishing. This is tantamount to leading the NBA in fouls drawn and being a 35% FT shooter.

I think they're more like the center that forces the ballhandler to take rushed, contested shots but doesn't get much blocks

 

[Tical21]

It is just such a subjective stat. If Avril does a Maverick style fly-by on his way past the QB does he get a hurry?

At any rate, as was hinted around earlier, is the lack of a McDonald type player. It isn't as much that he was a big pressure guy, as much as he was a slippery hustle type guy. Our ends (Bennett also does play inside next to Avril quite often) flush the QB, and that is where McDonald would hustle his way into a sack. We don't have that secondary guy getting free to come clean up. So, rather than a sack, we get Terrence Williams on 3rd and 20. Big plays can happen when the QB gets flushed. I've got optimism for Jordan Hill, but haven't seen it. I wasn't terribly thrilled with Marsh either, but he does have the motor to get a couple of these. Since our DE's are so good, we don't need a big-time passrusher in the middle, we just need a cleaning crew of a DT rotation.

 

[2_0_6]

There is a serious lack with interior pressure this year, so the Qb's can climb the pocket and scoot by the sacks we were getting last year.

 

[Hawks46]

Before Irvin came on stronger, Bennett was rushing from the outside, and we'd have Marsh in the middle. Sometimes they'd flip, but once Irvin showed he could get consistent pressure from the outside, they moved Bennett inside where he's much better and it has showed.

At the beginning of the season, Williams was getting some push up the middle, but I haven't seen him lately. Is he just worn out already or is he injured ? It's also possible that he's doing just fine and I haven't noticed him as I've missed a few games this year.

 

[hawkfan68]

I believe that injuries to the secondary have affected the pass rush. Sometimes pass rush is helped by tight coverage. Having Kam, Jeron, Jeremy, and Byron out hurt. While Burley and Simon have filled in nicely, it's still not the same. Once these guys starting coming back, I think the pass rush will show improvement. I agree with moving Bennett inside. He seems to have most success from that role.

 

[HawkWow]

1st and 3rd in QB hurries.

That's precisely the problem. They're "hurrying" the QB but they're not actually getting to him enough and finishing. This is tantamount to leading the NBA in fouls drawn and being a 35% FT shooter.

Right, but more applicable if some of those missed FTs are rebounded by the offense.

Good things happen with hurries even though some QBs won't always rattle or fold when hurried. So you're happy to force incompletions and the occasional sack vs the top tier, sacks and turn-overs with the rest.

 

[Tokadub]

PFF is flawed then because opposing QB's were averaging like 100+ Passer rating and around 70% completion rate on us up till Carolina. Since the Rams game we have played 3 bad-mediocre QB's in a row, our opposing passing yards per game jumped from like 19th to 6th over that stretch of 3 games.

I wouldn't take too much pride in our Pass Rush right now certainly not Bennett, and Avril has been surprisingly quiet too. They are probably getting a lot of pressures because the QB's know they won't get sacked so they can take even more time to make sure they get like 80% completion rate... just one little side step and Bennett faceplants on the ground every other play.

Luckily the rest of QB's we play this season are pretty bad-mediocre so we might do alright, but I think clearly the PFF rating for Avril and Bennett is misleading considering pretty much every single QB we played this season has had well above average stats compared to their career, we also have a very low number of sacks and our turnover margin is barely in the positive.

 

[jammerhawk]

In a related note, Clemons' departure could be having an effect, as well. I recall that he and Avril would rush and Bennett would move inside a lot last year. Has Bennett been moving inside as much this season? Is Schofield providing enough pressure when Bennett does move inside?

.

To my eyes the answer is no to both questions, Bennett is staying on the edge and Schofield is not consistently providing pressure when Bennett is inside or not playing but Bennett has not played much inside.

Your whole post is really spot on. The team misses the pressure from inside it got from McDonald and from the situational NASCAR packages with Clemons Bennett and Avril all rushing. Maybe we'll start to see more of that if Hill ever develops into a pass rusher or they turn Williams loose inside.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

I believe that injuries to the secondary have affected the pass rush. Sometimes pass rush is helped by tight coverage. Having Kam, Jeron, Jeremy, and Byron out hurt. While Burley and Simon have filled in nicely, it's still not the same. Once these guys starting coming back, I think the pass rush will show improvement. I agree with moving Bennett inside. He seems to have most success from that role.

"Coverage sack"

 

[dunceface]

Does that qualify as dino poo?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I haven't seen anyone criticizing Avril and Bennett, both have played very well.

If there's been any criticism of the D-Line, it's been the interior line not pushing the pocket in enough to create problems for some of these better QB's we've been facing.

 

[morgulon1]

I think the pass rush issue isn't with Avril and Bennett, but with the lack of pressure in the middle. Avril and Bennett are great at forcing pressure, but we're not getting the same push in the middle to keep the QB from stepping up in the pocket. Hill's been injured, and while Mebane is awesome, I don't think we're getting the same results from McDaniel/Williams as we were getting from McDonald.

In a related note, Clemons' departure could be having an effect, as well. I recall that he and Avril would rush and Bennett would move inside a lot last year. Has Bennett been moving inside as much this season? Is Schofield providing enough pressure when Bennett does move inside?

I haven't watched closely enough to know... would love to hear from someone who has studied the games this season.

This is exactly right and I agree 100% w/ all. Avril and Bennett are still there providing the same exact outside pressure but we are lacking that middle pressure allowing the QB's to step up just exactly like 2012. It was great to finely see that middle pressure last year but now we lost it again. As much as I liked a healthy Clem here, I think we would be fine w/out him this year if we had that middle pressure back. Of course, having Clem for rotational help would certainly be a nice luxury to have don't get me wrong.

I also agree w/ the shorter quick passes hurting us bad this year, as some mentioned earlier, making us just not quite able to get there quick enough.

The last thing I will add (please do not take this as ref whining) is the amount of OL holding being allowed this year league wide seems to be really high. I watch a lot of other games, in fact parts of most all, and they just seem to be letting Oline guys get away w/ bad holding like full on tackles and wrap ups this year.

Except for Carp on MNF.

 

[Anonymous]

Pandion has a great point. I can't count the number of times I see Mike Bennett getting through the line only to have a O Lineman with a struggle cuddle on him "backpack style". It's not being called. Ridiculous.

According to what was said by Mike Carrey on Inside the NFL, holding is only going to be called when the hold occurs ONLY to prevent direct contact with the ball carrier/QB.

If the hold occurs after the ball carrier is past the defender, or the hold is opposite of the way the ball is going, no call.

I simply don't understand that as well as I probably should.