Why I see the Seahawks finally winning it all in 2013

Smelly McUgly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
0
Location
God's Country AKA Cascadia AKA The Pacific Northwe
kearly":3kafnntc said:
I never understood contrarians. Judgements should be made case-by-case based on the available evidence. The opinions of others are not evidence, and shouldn't factor. It's important to be thinkers and think for ourselves, but disagreeing to disagree, I never understood people who did that.

It's helpful when done thoughtfully. Sometimes, group-think can dominate an issue, and it takes contrarians to expose flaws in the general thinking about a topic.

Yes, in a perfect world, everyone would do their own critical evaluation after assessing the given evidence, but this isn't a perfect world, and thus the Montanas of the world are vital when they play the devil's advocate.
 

kearly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
15,975
Reaction score
0
Smelly McUgly":1q1wdlae said:
kearly":1q1wdlae said:
I never understood contrarians. Judgements should be made case-by-case based on the available evidence. The opinions of others are not evidence, and shouldn't factor. It's important to be thinkers and think for ourselves, but disagreeing to disagree, I never understood people who did that.

It's helpful when done thoughtfully. Sometimes, group-think can dominate an issue, and it takes contrarians to expose flaws in the general thinking about a topic.

Yes, in a perfect world, everyone would do their own critical evaluation after assessing the given evidence, but this isn't a perfect world, and thus the Montanas of the world are vital when they play the devil's advocate.

I don't consider contrarians to be what you described though. You just described an intellectual. A true contrarian lets the crowd do the thinking for him, he just takes the opposite tack. (I always thought Montana was more intellectual than contrarian, FWIW).
 

Smelly McUgly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
0
Location
God's Country AKA Cascadia AKA The Pacific Northwe
We're probably just quibbling on how we think about the term. I do think some people are contrarian just to be that way, like people that hate anything as soon as it becomes popular. Others are definitely much more thoughtful about it, and I always enjoyed Montana's writings. He helped me think about accepted wisdom in a more critical light.

We Seahawks fans have some of the best fan bloggers around, really. Maybe THE best.
 

pehawk

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
24,216
Reaction score
1,738
This post is the best I've read on here in a long time. Not for the prediction, but the Tao analysis of the overall strategy. It shows REAL knowledge, in a world where knowledge is feigned using mathematics and combine tape.

Fart...
 

Largent80

New member
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
36,653
Reaction score
5
Location
The Tex-ASS
First of all Happy Birthday.

I like how you addressed the DL and how P & J have really put a lot of emphasis on improving it, It is still a question mark, however I have faith in them.

10,000 posts?

A milestone but you have more work to do here. Carry ON sir !!!
 

formido

New member
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Messages
547
Reaction score
0
Location
Ventura, CA
kearly":2publn6a said:
Smelly McUgly":2publn6a said:
kearly":2publn6a said:
I never understood contrarians. Judgements should be made case-by-case based on the available evidence. The opinions of others are not evidence, and shouldn't factor. It's important to be thinkers and think for ourselves, but disagreeing to disagree, I never understood people who did that.

It's helpful when done thoughtfully. Sometimes, group-think can dominate an issue, and it takes contrarians to expose flaws in the general thinking about a topic.

Yes, in a perfect world, everyone would do their own critical evaluation after assessing the given evidence, but this isn't a perfect world, and thus the Montanas of the world are vital when they play the devil's advocate.

I don't consider contrarians to be what you described though. You just described an intellectual. A true contrarian lets the crowd do the thinking for him, he just takes the opposite tack. (I always thought Montana was more intellectual than contrarian, FWIW).

Fun conversation. I think contrarians exist to purposely introduce entropy into the world of ideas. Like a genetic mutation, the vast majority of the time they're wrong. Most contrarianism leads to bad results in thinking. Most mutations result in dead or damaged offspring. But, sometimes, a society or culture or community's thinking has converged to a particular equilibrium, which works well enough that no reasonable person can see a way to improve it. A habitual contrarian can accidentally hit upon an improvement. George Bernard Shaw said, "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." I think this is an exaggeration and overromanticizes contrarianism, but there's an element of truth to it. Contrarians used to annoy me, and they still do when I don't catch myself, but it helps to think of it more as an altruistic impulse toward making the world a better place. It's got to be hard to be a contrarian. It's a sacrifice.
 
OP
OP
MontanaHawk05

MontanaHawk05

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
17,913
Reaction score
449
All I can say is that natural contrarians do exist. When an idea is presented, my first reaction is something like, "How can this be improved?" or "What holes are there in this?" and I go searching for them. A self-aware contrarian may very well find none and accept the idea. I've noticed that this takes a slight dose of humility for me to do, which makes me think that contrarianism is rooted in the desire to simply be an independent thinker. I do think that honest contrarianism has its uses in the spectrum of personalities. It finds the flipside of things, breaks up groupthink, and serves as an improver of plans and structures. After all, the best way to validate an idea is to throw a skeptic at it.

A clueless contrarian will probably just keep assuming that the holes are there somewhere, and will eventually find himself bending or ignoring facts to validate his assumption. We've all seen examples of that. It's one reason I stopped blogging - I knew from looking at other examples within the blogosphere that being an informed contrarian amongst an uninformed fan base is a massive trap. You look good for a while, but then your personality starts taking you beyond your expertise, and people believe you all the while.

The slight irony, of course, is that in pulling against the grain of the Seahawks community and their desire for strong pass protection and running game, I was actually trying to go WITH the grain of a different community, that of the NFL trendsters with their fevered fascination with epic quarterbacks. I do reserve a little dignity for myself, because it's not like Russell Wilson lacks what I wanted. He's accurate, technically sound, and strong-armed. But he wouldn't be much, at least at this stage, without Marshawn Lynch.
 

Latest posts

Top