Who was/is the problem

[xray]

SB 49 flashbacks still haunt me . The blame now and then and everything in between , was between them both . They both have that optimism that borders on toxic . Hence , the play call approved by Carroll & the interception by Wilson . Both of them will be remembered as being involved in the worst play & and interception in SB history .

 

[Sports Hernia]

SB 49 flashbacks still haunt me . The blame now and then and everything in between , was between them both . They both have that optimism that borders on toxic . Hence , the play call approved by Carroll & the interception by Wilson . Both of them will be remembered as being involved in the worst play & and interception in SB history .

Solid post, I agree.

 

[toffee]

SB 49 flashbacks still haunt me . The blame now and then and everything in between , was between them both . They both have that optimism that borders on toxic . Hence , the play call approved by Carroll & the interception by Wilson . Both of them will be remembered as being involved in the worst play & and interception in SB history .

At this stage, one wouldn't be shocked if the fatal play was an audible. Pete and Bevell might have decided to cover for Russ, for the shake of team unity.

 

[Palmegranite]

At this stage, one wouldn't be shocked if the fatal play was an audible. Pete and Bevell might have decided to cover for Russ, for the shake of team unity.

And while we're at it, it was Russell Wilson that pushed that old lady in a wheelchair over at that other Superbowl, not Michael Bennett.

 

[Palmegranite]

And while we're at it, it was Russell Wilson that pushed that old lady in a wheelchair over at that other Superbowl, not Michael Bennett.

Would you be shocked if I told you that Russell Wilson pinched those sick kids at the hospital really hard when no-one was looking...

 

[Palmegranite]

At this stage, I'll have to admit that it's now obvious the 4 picks Russell Wilson threw in the NFC Championship game were...yep, ....on purpose.
All part of the 4th quarter, and I might say, selfish, hero- ball.
Just for a little self-aggrandizing action.

 

[toffee]

Nah, Cover 2 and that division's pass rush, plus hey don't they also play the NFC West this year that all know Wilson as well. He will be lucky to make it through the season.

According to John63, Wilson's statistics were excellent under cover 2.

 

[Fade]

Pete wanted to keep Wilson. He wanted to keep it going.

Wilson would've gladly stayed if the team were contenders, he wants to win. He tried, but the the teams talent level has continued to regress season after season.

Pete's answer to this problem was to keep doing what their doing. As its his philosophy.

Wilson wanted off the carousel of crazy. He is now on a team that compares to the 2015 Seahawks talent wise, with an offensive coach that he can work with.

Pete ran the team into the ground, they are devoid of talent. With their only real asset being DK Metcalf as of now. Shelling out massive amounts of money on JAGs, and flushing draft picks over the years will do that.

Now the cherry on top that most seem to focus on. Is the dated, and limited offense he was placed in. It's tolerable if you're winning. But it becomes incredibly agitating when you don't have a chance at ever winning and your expected to turn water into wine. And get blamed for it going wrong, while not even being given the proper tools to succeed. It was a miracle what Wilson was able to accomplish given the circumstances over the last 5 years. He carried dead bodies over the finish line a lot of those seasons.

The stress of Wilson's contract was why the team lacked stars as they couldn't afford them or so we were told by the apologists. Whelp, Wilson's gone and the talent level is continuing to drop, and will continue, as that is the track record since 2014. It's a well documented track record at this point. Believing things are going to magically change is looney tunes.

More people will come to their senses once the games start.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Pete wanted to keep Wilson. He wanted to keep it going.

Wilson would've gladly stayed if the team were contenders, he wants to win. He tried, but the the teams talent level has continued to regress season after season.

Pete's answer to this problem was to keep doing what their doing. As its his philosophy.

Wilson wanted off the carousel of crazy. He is now on a team that compares to the 2015 Seahawks talent wise, with an offensive coach that he can work with.

Pete ran the team into the ground, they are devoid of talent. With their only real asset being DK Metcalf as of now. Shelling out massive amounts of money on JAGs, and flushing draft picks over the years will do that.

Now the cherry on top that most seem to focus on. Is the dated, and limited offense he was placed in. It's tolerable if you're winning. But it becomes incredibly agitating when you don't have a chance at ever winning and your expected to turn water into wine. And get blamed for it going wrong, while not even being given the proper tools to succeed. It was a miracle what Wilson was able to accomplish given the circumstances over the last 5 years. He carried dead bodies over the finish line a lot of those seasons.

The stress of Wilson's contract was why the team lacked stars as they couldn't afford them or so we were told by the apologists. Whelp, Wilson's gone and the talent level is continuing to drop, and will continue, as that is the track record since 2014. It's a well documented track record at this point. Believing things are going to magically change is looney tunes.

More people will come to their senses once the games start.

I guess this is the year we'll finally see which Wilson camp is right.

The Pete's wasted Russell camp such as yourself, or the Pete was actually using Russell's skillset correctly camp like me and others.

I do think Russell will do well his first year in Denver because they did have a 4-5 year run of stinking and accumulating cheap talent for him to step into a very good situation.

But like here if they win with the combo of having to fork out 50M a year to an aging QB that relies on his escapability diminishing over the next 4-5 years, the Broncos will be the current state of the Seahawks in 2-3 years.

 

[sdog1981]

There is a real possibility that both Pete and Russ can be worse off. It could be they both needed each other more than they are willing to admit.

 

[Sports Hernia]

At this stage, one wouldn't be shocked if the fatal play was an audible. Pete and Bevell might have decided to cover for Russ, for the shake of team unity.

Naw, that was Bevell’s stupidity. He panicked and turtled.
I wish Russ would have audibled out of the 2nd and wrong though.

 

[WarHawks]

Don't care. Let's move on.

 

[mistaowen]

The weird thing is - we've seen a depleting roster for some time now and finally once Russ is jettisoned, the FO decides to cut waste and rebrand the defense. Completely new defensive coaches after wasting prime Russ years rocking a bottom 3 defense, with a coaching staff that passive onlookers knew wasn't good enough. The OL looks like it may be a whole new group running the Rams scheme. Where has this churn been the past few years when clearly the program simply wasn't good enough?

Russ isn't without fault, Geno was able to lock in on DK for some amazing numbers in a small sample size, something that Russ for whatever reason didn't do last year. He also had games where he looked checked out by the end. Last year especially didn't feel like Russ was going to pull the win out no matter the score. I don't think anyone could handle more 1 first down, 25 yards by half time performances.

This 'divorce' was inevitable and is a fresh start for both parties. Pete gets draft picks and cap space to revamp the D, buff the run game up, time to look for his next cheap point guard at QB - Russ gets total control over the Broncos offense with another mega contract coming.

 

[John63]

Pete wanted to keep Wilson. He wanted to keep it going.

Wilson would've gladly stayed if the team were contenders, he wants to win. He tried, but the the teams talent level has continued to regress season after season.

Pete's answer to this problem was to keep doing what their doing. As its his philosophy.

Wilson wanted off the carousel of crazy. He is now on a team that compares to the 2015 Seahawks talent wise, with an offensive coach that he can work with.

Pete ran the team into the ground, they are devoid of talent. With their only real asset being DK Metcalf as of now. Shelling out massive amounts of money on JAGs, and flushing draft picks over the years will do that.

Now the cherry on top that most seem to focus on. Is the dated, and limited offense he was placed in. It's tolerable if you're winning. But it becomes incredibly agitating when you don't have a chance at ever winning and your expected to turn water into wine. And get blamed for it going wrong, while not even being given the proper tools to succeed. It was a miracle what Wilson was able to accomplish given the circumstances over the last 5 years. He carried dead bodies over the finish line a lot of those seasons.

The stress of Wilson's contract was why the team lacked stars as they couldn't afford them or so we were told by the apologists. Whelp, Wilson's gone and the talent level is continuing to drop, and will continue, as that is the track record since 2014. It's a well documented track record at this point. Believing things are going to magically change is looney tunes.

More people will come to their senses once the games start.

THIS^^^^^

 

[John63]

The weird thing is - we've seen a depleting roster for some time now and finally once Russ is jettisoned, the FO decides to cut waste and rebrand the defense. Completely new defensive coaches after wasting prime Russ years rocking a bottom 3 defense, with a coaching staff that passive onlookers knew wasn't good enough. The OL looks like it may be a whole new group running the Rams scheme. Where has this churn been the past few years when clearly the program simply wasn't good enough?

Russ isn't without fault, Geno was able to lock in on DK for some amazing numbers in a small sample size, something that Russ for whatever reason didn't do last year. He also had games where he looked checked out by the end. Last year especially didn't feel like Russ was going to pull the win out no matter the score. I don't think anyone could handle more 1 first down, 25 yards by half time performances.

This 'divorce' was inevitable and is a fresh start for both parties. Pete gets draft picks and cap space to revamp the D, buff the run game up, time to look for his next cheap point guard at QB - Russ gets total control over the Broncos offense with another mega contract coming.

I agree with most of what you say. expect the DK stuff

First DK was playing hurt a foot injury that got worse as the year went on, an injury he got surgery on after the season

With Wilson, prior to Wilson's injury, DK was avg of 77 yards per game. In fact Dks, the only 100-yard game came with Wilson That would have netted over 1200 yards

Dks last game with Geno was 43 yards. His last game with Wilson was 58 yards.

The most targets he got with Geno was 7
The most targets with Wilson was 12

Most TDS in a game was 3 with Wilson
so no Wilson did not forget to throw to DK in fact he got 11 targets in the last game together.

To me, the real issue was both of them being hurt for most of the season.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I think both of them are at fault, but I place more blame at Pete's shoulders than Russell's. Pete Carroll is a hostile head coach for an experienced QB to work for. His offenses have been extremely simplistic, even during pass heavy years -- and really have pigeon holed his passers into playing a specific way. Wilson never really had much agency to adjust things at the LOS until his final season here.

A good example of this happening to another QB on our roster was Matt Hasselbeck. We forced a guy that excelled at controlling the game from the LOS and short, precise rhythm passing into being a gunslinger. Under Carroll the offense looked suspiciously like it did with Russell Wilson manning the QB position with Matt Hasselbeck under center. Deep bombs up the sidelines with a guy that had a depleted arm after years of abuse in the NFL.

Pete Carroll is offensively inept and a luddite in how he views his offenses. I do think there has been tension between Russell Wilson and Pete Carroll for a long time now. I do think Pete Carroll is more controlling on offense then some are willing to admit. He wouldn't even let Schottenheimer bring in his own playbook when we hired him. It's not just about the run/pass ratio, it's the whole damn package that is screwed up in the Pete Carroll offenses. In addition to this, it almost seems as if we view the O-Line as an afterthought under Pete.

Wilson also is at fault for not being a leader. I get the impression based on tweets from players over the years that he's not a great leader and that he has a fragile ego. Tyler Lockett talking about how they were switching things up pre-snap and confusing him is a great example. Immediately he went to twitter to deflect, analysis showed that Lockett was indeed correct. Russell Wilson refused to own up to his mistakes as a player. Yes I believe he was working in a bad system -- but he also had a huge part to play as well. DK Metcalf had poor body language towards Wilson as well. I get the general idea that he wasn't very well liked or respected by his teammates.

Honestly, It's time for both of these guys to go. I think both Carroll and Wilson had overstayed their welcome in Seattle. Now this team is just like a dying relative living on nothing but life support. Carroll is acting like this team is ready to compete for a Super Bowl with Drew Lock. Signing and trading for aging players when we have no QB, an awful O-Line and paper thin depth at RB. This team is extremely depleted right now.

 

[pittpnthrs]

But like here if they win with the combo of having to fork out 50M a year to an aging QB that relies on his escapability diminishing over the next 4-5 years, the Broncos will be the current state of the Seahawks in 2-3 years.

I disagree. Unlike Seattle, Denver will see and listen to the needs of Wilson and the team and actually address them.

 

[Hyak]

They both had blame in this. Both are stubborn. Pete is antiquated and Russ is delusional and consumed by legacy/brand.

One note from above. The idea the team moved on from the LOB to appease Wilson is just bunk. They were not going to give Earl a 3rd contract (which proved to be absolutely correct). Kam had a career ending injury. Sherm arguably was let go because of attitude/cost but let's not pretend he was the same guy off the achilles. Sherm talked his way out of town as much as anything - the juice was not worth the squeeze.

I'd add that paying Wagner the 3rd contract was also dumb and had horrible ROI.

On defense you need speed. You can only do so much on smarts.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I disagree. Unlike Seattle, Denver will see and listen to the needs of Wilson and the team and actually address them.

Three O-Coordinators in four years, drafting of DK, trading for Duane Brown and Gabe Jackson, and drafting of Lewis.......and allowing of Russ to cook for half of the 2020 season until he turned the ball over six times in four games resulting in Pete pumping the brakes on that.

The Hawks did nothing for Russ's entire tenure after he signed his first big contract but bend over backwards to try and make him happy. Including jettisoning players he didn't get along with (Doug, Earl, Sherm, Bennett).

Wasn't until last year when Pete and John saw the future of what Wilson was going to look like for the next 4-5 years, injured and slower not worthy of handing 50M+ and more tantrums about how he's being misused from his agent.

Good luck Denver, you're going to need it.

 

[John63]

Three O-Coordinators in four years, drafting of DK, trading for Duane Brown and Gabe Jackson, and drafting of Lewis.......and allowing of Russ to cook for half of the 2020 season until he turned the ball over six times in four games resulting in Pete pumping the brakes on that.

The Hawks did nothing for Russ's entire tenure after he signed his first big contract but bend over backwards to try and make him happy. Including jettisoning players he didn't get along with (Doug, Earl, Sherm, Bennett).

Wasn't until last year when Pete and John saw the future of what Wilson was going to look like for the next 4-5 years, injured and slower not worthy of handing 50M+ and more tantrums about how he's being misused from his agent.

Good luck Denver, you're going to need it.

Okay, first let's look at the oline they were all known to be weak in pass blocking. As to OC first OC should have been let go right after the Sb loss for the bad call that we later found out PC agreed with. the 2nd OC left because he and PC did not agree on the way to do the offense. PC wanted to run at all cost. as to the TO machine, we can debate given most were right off the hands of the receiver, that said okay a bad game and you revert to the same old same old. Yet when your run game is a bad game multiple Tos he sticks with it. The reality is PC only game Wilson rope when he had to or until a mistake happened. Now as to last year seeing what Wilson would be like you mean the last 3 games where he was healthy and had a passer rating of 116, 9 tds, 1 int, 64% complete Yeah that shows what life would be like. In fact, lets go 1 longer let's look at all the games where he was healthy

7 games
122.3 passer, 18 tds, 1 int, 68% complt.

Now I am sure they did look at what the current Qbs are being paid, and I am sure in PCs hubris he thought any QNB would do. At the end that is the main reason for this move.

We will learn soon enough if it was the right move.