Tony Stewart hits and kills another driver

[Jville]

Here is are some excellent videos showing pretty much all you need to know...


[youtube]u1cObBkYS1s[/youtube]

[youtube]QjYudmrySiw[/youtube]

Nice visual aids and insightful background perspectives. :th2thumbs: Although, I think Kevin Ward's death will forever be controversial.

My experience is on two wheels during day light hours.

I did attend a world of outlaws event once. Watched Steve Kinser win and school the field with a flat inside rear tire. Got to talk with him. Shook his hand. And left with his autograph, I gave that autograph book on sprint cars to my friend and mechanic for his birthday. Although I never saw him race, he spent a lot of his weekends racing four wheels around a local dirt oval. I spend my weekends on two wheels.

 

[fenderbender123]

If Tony Stewart is a good a driver, then he would not be fixating on the area that the kid was standing or even see him until he was coming out of the turn which gives him almost no time to react especially considering the kid kept moving toward the inner part of the track, giving him less room to avoid him. When Tony came out of the turn the kid appears to be standing directly in line with where Tony's vehicle is going, leaving Tony with almost 0 options. There's a good chance that his car lost control because he had to turn his wheel to the left to try and go around the kid.

But I don't know. I'm not a racing or physics expert. Most of the racing experts I've seen comment on this are siding with Tony.

Sadly, there are always those witch-hunters out for blood anytime something bad happens.

 

[-The Glove-]

Tony was also driving significantly faster than the 45 and should have been driving on inside line (since he was well aware where the caution flag car ended up).

He was pretty much on the same line as car 45 that had to swerve to miss Ward. Ward is also moving down the track

That's not an excuse for a professional like Tony Stewart.

You're right. He should have been able to avoid Ward no matter what

 

[SonicHawk]

If Tony Stewart is a good a driver, then he would not be fixating on the area that the kid was standing or even see him until he was coming out of the turn which gives him almost no time to react especially considering the kid kept moving toward the inner part of the track, giving him less room to avoid him. When Tony came out of the turn the kid appears to be standing directly in line with where Tony's vehicle is going, leaving Tony with almost 0 options. There's a good chance that his car lost control because he had to turn his wheel to the left to try and go around the kid.

But I don't know. I'm not a racing or physics expert. Most of the racing experts I've seen comment on this are siding with Tony.

Sadly, there are always those witch-hunters out for blood anytime something bad happens.

He's under caution and he knows where that kid ended up (he put him there), there's absolutely no question in my mind that he intended to 'scare' the kid throwing a bit of dirt in his face.

He's not racing so he's not necessarily fixating on being a racing driver.

 

[fenderbender123]

This was what another driver said who witnessed it:

"I know Tony could see him. I know how you can see out of these cars. When Tony got close to him, he hit the throttle. When you hit a throttle on a sprint car, the car sets sideways. It set sideways, the right rear tire hit Kevin, Kevin was sucked underneath and was stuck under it for a second or two and then it threw him about 50 yards."

We'll see if he backs away from the statement later on, but these words are pretty damning from a fellow driver.

This is apparently a quote from one of Ward's friends who was obviously overly-emotional and not thinking rationally after the incident. To say that his comments are likely biased and should be taken with a pound of salt is an understatement.

 

[fenderbender123]

If Tony Stewart is a good a driver, then he would not be fixating on the area that the kid was standing or even see him until he was coming out of the turn which gives him almost no time to react especially considering the kid kept moving toward the inner part of the track, giving him less room to avoid him. When Tony came out of the turn the kid appears to be standing directly in line with where Tony's vehicle is going, leaving Tony with almost 0 options. There's a good chance that his car lost control because he had to turn his wheel to the left to try and go around the kid.

But I don't know. I'm not a racing or physics expert. Most of the racing experts I've seen comment on this are siding with Tony.

Sadly, there are always those witch-hunters out for blood anytime something bad happens.

He's under caution and he knows where that kid ended up (he put him there), there's absolutely no question in my mind that he intended to 'scare' the kid throwing a bit of dirt in his face.

He's not racing so he's not necessarily fixating on being a racing driver.

Watch it again and you'll clearly see that Tony didn't cause the wreck or even saw what happened as he was in front (those cars don't have mirrors). The kid wrecked the car himself by taking a bad angle around a corner so Tony didn't even have a reason to be mad at the kid.

I'm seeing a lot of comments around the web similar to this:

So... What happens when you combine huge tires (lots of traction) with a solid axle (difficult to turn) and reduced speed (due to yellow flag, resulting in still more traction)? The car becomes very difficult to turn (known as understeer). In fact, it would become far easier to turn by revving the engine to break the rear wheels lose (power-induced oversteer).

So, Stewart comes around the corner, the car in front of him dodges out of the way, revealing a road-raging driver running out in the track. Stewart tries to dodge: He turns the wheel and blips the throttle to get the car to rotate... To point in the right direction so when it regains traction it will miss the object (driver) he's trying to avoid. It was simply too late and/or driver too far out in the track for the physics to play out. The result? Driver gets hit by the rear tire.

That was from reddit. Most people who seem to know what they're talking about are not faulting Tony.

Maybe somebody who has more knowledge can confirm this, Tony likely doesn't know the kid is there until after the corner, and if he comes out of it pointed in the direction the kid is standing, and the above quote is correct in how those cars operate, then Tony has to turn his wheel and accelerate to change his direction and avoid the kid. I just don't see how any driver could have made a clean swerve around him if they came out of that turn like that. Look at the other cars that barely miss him, they all come out of the corner more on the inside. Tony didn't, and thus was in a much more difficult position to make a maneuver around him.

 

[Largent80]

On a poorly lit banked, clay track this idiot gets out of his car to wag a finger at T.S.

That right there is all you need to know. There is no criminal action in what happened. Dude put himself in harms way, and harm won.

 

[SonicHawk]

So... What happens when you combine huge tires (lots of traction) with a solid axle (difficult to turn) and reduced speed (due to yellow flag, resulting in still more traction)? The car becomes very difficult to turn (known as understeer). In fact, it would become far easier to turn by revving the engine to break the rear wheels lose (power-induced oversteer).

So, Stewart comes around the corner, the car in front of him dodges out of the way, revealing a road-raging driver running out in the track. Stewart tries to dodge: He turns the wheel and blips the throttle to get the car to rotate... To point in the right direction so when it regains traction it will miss the object (driver) he's trying to avoid. It was simply too late and/or driver too far out in the track for the physics to play out. The result? Driver gets hit by the rear tire.

That was from reddit. Most people who seem to know what they're talking about are not faulting Tony.

'Most people who seem to know...' Yeah, that's a dickhole comment. There are a lot of Tony Stewart fans out there who are doing everything they can to blame everyone but him.

You're not arguing what I've been saying.. In no way have I suggested that Stewart intentionally did this. Yes, those cars are incredibly difficult to handle.

While this 'redditors' comment is great, STEWART IS WELL AWARE OF WHERE THIS WRECK TOOK PLACE AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN NO WHERE NEAR THE MIDDLE OF THE TRACK.

You have a driver in Stewart who has an absolute history of misbehaving on the track, he's cocky and on a track he's unfamiliar with with a brash kid who's trying to upstage him. It's a horrible accident, but it occurred due to the negligence of Stewart. That's a crime.

 

[SonicHawk]

Since you're going to use a reddit comment... here's another one from someone who's not a Stewart fan.

Vision can certainly be a major issue in dirt racing. As a big dumb mouth-breather I used to always have issues with my visor fogging up, especially on humid evenings. Sometimes I'd pull all my tear-offs at one time and have to wipe mud off my visor with different parts of my gloves each time (if you use an already muddy part you just compound the problem) for an entire race.
Now for my opinion on the incident (sorry, gotta do it): Tony is one of the world's best racers. He's run thousands of caution laps and understands what's going on on an oval track better than anyone probably. Due to his experience level I struggle to grasp that Tony had no clue Ward was on the track in a rage. I'd bet Tony saw him as he entered turn one. That is what you always do under yellow, you look around to spot the obstacle ahead. I refuse to believe that Tony didn't see the kid until the last second. I know, this is totally a gut belief but I simply can't shake it. You don't wheel sprinters like Tony can without exceptional awareness and eyesight. I'd like to know if they wear track channel radios in the series they were running. If so, the tower would have certainly told the drivers to get low in turn two and possibly warned of a driver on the track. Haven't heard anything about that though.
In the area of equipment failure I see it this way: He has the best equipment and crew everywhere he dirt races so its hard for me to believe that his mask fogged or he goofed his tear-offs up. They make tear-off setups that are almost impossible to screw up and there are all sorts of fogless this and that. I needed them but couldn't afford it.
These things, in addition to the video, lead me to believe that Tony was just trying to buzz the tires right by the kid to spook him a little. He got too close, Ward kept pressing and a fatal collision occurred. Two bad choices ended a life and damaged many others. I might be wrong but I doubt anyone will ever know for sure.
All this said I feel bad for Tony but even worse for Kevin Ward's family and friends.

This one was upvoted to death and given gold. So suck it.

 

[JGfromtheNW]

Again, My brother and I raced sprint cars all through the 90's. I have driven a sprint car, at speed, on a banked clay surface, on a dusty pit area surface, in the gravel, in the mud, and (much to the chagrin of the Sheriff's department) on paved surfaces. I am VERY familiar with the controls and the visibility with those race cars and can completely put myself in Stewart's position.

Even with a clean tear-off, glare wisps across the plastic shield as you pass under the track lights and you have to operate with faith and familiarity just to get around. Even under yellow, those cars are running about 60 mph until they get lined back up where they go about 35-40 to re-take the green. These cars are direct-drive, they only have an in and out shifter, and must be push-started. Drivers must ease from fast to slow operation and will get on the gas to keep the engine from lugging. You don't want lug a $40,000 alcohol-burning, mechanically fuel injected engine, so drivers will keep them revved to insure a clean burn and proper oil pressure. It is like keeping your car in fifth gear when you slow from freeway speed down to a 45 zone and not being able to downshift. Go too slow and it jerks and bucks on you.

At parade speeds, these cars are extremely difficult to keep straight on the tacky clay surface. The best analogy for somebody to get what I mean, is to compare it to a personal watercraft. Anybody ridden a Seadoo or a Waverunner? No brakes, and you can only turn by getting on the gas. Same damn thing. It is a controlled chaos of sorts.

Like driving in the snow, Stewart was on a trajectory through the corner at about half speed. By the time he saw the kid he would have had to make the only correction his muscle memory would have had and burp the throttle to try and avoid him. But it was too late.

This kid was wearing a black driving suit and was at a place on the track that other drivers would not expect him to be. Safety policies dictate that not even track safety personnel can traverse the racing surface until the red flag, and this kid put himself in harm's way getting out of his car during the yellow. The ONLY place that a sprint car driver is safe on the track is strapped into car with roll bars around them. What this unfortunate driver did was to effectively render himself defenseless by getting out. He paid the ultimate price for it.

Sadness should be the emotion here, not anger.

This is 100% on-point.

 

[SonicHawk]

Except it's not.

 

[NoChops]

not making excuses at all. Juan Pablo was under caution when he took out that truck dryer and caused an explosion at Daytona. Stuff happens.

By your argument, Montoya, record holing F1, Monaco GP, Indy 500 winner, 24 hr. LeMan, two time Cup winner should have been able to miss that truck. He didn't.

Tony didn't miss a kid running down the middle of the track. I still say it was a terrible accident.

but to each his own.

Montoya had a mechanical issue, not driver error. Thanks for his driving history, didn't help your point. Had Montoya killed someone it would CLEARLY have been an accident.

yet your point that Smoke lives his life at 200 MPH and is aware of everything around him and as a champion racer obviously saw the kid running down the track from a mile away is valid...rubbish.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Sonic,

I'd like to point out that I'm not taking a side in this, in fact, I hate Tony Stewart with a passion. I think he is a whining hot-head with deep pockets. That just pisses me off. Rich people need to be humble, and nice. Tony, is a douchebag.

I'm just commenting as a person who has built and driven these cars for several years, and want to make sure the difficulty of controlling them and seeing out of them is not left out of the conversation. When I scrutinize the video, it does not look like he saw him until it was too late, and would not have expected to see him out on the track. He tried to avoid him, not run him over. Period.

Ward Jr. got out of his car during a yellow flag, which would have disqualified him and put him in violation of track rules. He may have been ejected had he made it back to the pits. I have seen incidents like this happen first hand with pissed off drivers running onto the track, in every case, those drivers were banned from the track for the remainder of the season.

Had it been Jeff Gordon or Kasey Kahne in Tony's spot, I seriously doubt there would be as much uproar. I am thoroughly convinced that anyone that got strapped into one of those cars with 750 hp of alcohol burning fury between their legs they'd immediately understand things in a very different way.

Oh, and Stewart cannot be prosecuted either, because every racer signs a hold-harmless, "you might die" document before they can even race. They won't let you in the pits unless every participant signs it. It basically says that if you race, you might die, and if you do, it is nobody's fault but your own.

In this case, it was his own fault he died. And I will say this One... More... Time...

Ward Jr. died because he got out of his race car and walked out onto the track under a yellow flag at a sprint car race.

 

[SonicHawk]

An accidental death waiver doesn't cover criminal actions. Even if it explicitly did it wouldn't mean anything to police.

 

[JGfromtheNW]

LMAO.

Sounds like there is no conversation to be had with SonicHawk. He has some type of irrational hatred towards Tony Stewart that warps the facts and evidence that has been released as damning and somehow clearly proves that Stewart should be charged with manslaughter.

Let the witch-hunt begin!

 

[SonicHawk]

LMAO.

Sounds like there is no conversation to be had with SonicHawk. He has some type of irrational hatred towards Tony Stewart that warps the facts and evidence that has been released as damning and somehow clearly proves that Stewart should be charged with manslaughter.

Let the witch-hunt begin!

No, I don't hate Stewart. He's a very good driver, in fact, he's an exceptional driver and this is a HORRIBLE accident.

But I've seen way too many people blaming the victim for his death while giving no credit to the driving ability and wherewithall of Stewart. It's as if Tony Stewart was an old lady driving a Buick.

I'm not convinced of anything yet, I'm just presenting my thoughts based off what we know. I would like to see an investigation and for a sentence to be carried out if justice is due.

 

[SonicHawk]

Hey Sonic,

I'd like to point out that I'm not taking a side in this, in fact, I hate Tony Stewart with a passion. I think he is a whining hot-head with deep pockets. That just pisses me off. Rich people need to be humble, and nice. Tony, is a douchebag.

I'm just commenting as a person who has built and driven these cars for several years, and want to make sure the difficulty of controlling them and seeing out of them is not left out of the conversation. When I scrutinize the video, it does not look like he saw him until it was too late, and would not have expected to see him out on the track. He tried to avoid him, not run him over. Period.

I have no question in my mind that Stewart had no intention of hitting Ward. I think Stewart did not think Ward was dumb enough to traverse out as far as he did.

Ward Jr. got out of his car during a yellow flag, which would have disqualified him and put him in violation of track rules. He may have been ejected had he made it back to the pits. I have seen incidents like this happen first hand with pissed off drivers running onto the track, in every case, those drivers were banned from the track for the remainder of the season.

Yeah, Ward should have not gotten out of his car, of course.

Had it been Jeff Gordon or Kasey Kahne in Tony's spot, I seriously doubt there would be as much uproar. I am thoroughly convinced that anyone that got strapped into one of those cars with 750 hp of alcohol burning fury between their legs they'd immediately understand things in a very different way.

You're probably right, but that's because Kahne and Gordon don't have a history of being hotheads. Being a hothead behind the wheel of a powerful yet ridiculously unstable vehicle is not a good mix and SHOULD be thought of as evidence.

Oh, and Stewart cannot be prosecuted either, because every racer signs a hold-harmless, "you might die" document before they can even race. They won't let you in the pits unless every participant signs it. It basically says that if you race, you might die, and if you do, it is nobody's fault but your own.

You don't really believe this do you?

In this case, it was his own fault he died. And I will say this One... More... Time...

Ward Jr. died because he got out of his race car and walked out onto the track under a yellow flag at a sprint car race.

Ward Jr. died because he got run over by Stewart's rear wheel. It's up to investigators to determine whether it was because of Stewarts negligence or not.

 

[JGfromtheNW]

I am trying to remove any type of bias or preconceived notions and focus on exactly what we can see and know is fact. Most rational people have come to this conclusion:

"What the video shows is pretty limited. From what anyone and everyone can see from the video, Ward jumps out of his car in an emotional state and runs down into the race line where numerous cars are passing by. The first car that passes by after Ward is out of his car and on the track narrowly misses him as he is recklessly walking into the race line and pointing at Stewart without looking where he is going. In the video, one can only see Ward and the Stewart car for fractions of a second before Ward is struck by Stewart's car.

Considering all things and what we can ACTUALLY SEE ON VIDEO, without any type of hear-say or questioning what was going through either driver's heads, one can only come to the assumption that Ward was solely responsible for the very unfortunate accident that took his life."

If you want to take it a step further and look at it through the INFORMED EYE, like through the eyes of someone like HoustonHawk, Ward would have immediately been banned for the remainder of the season as he got out of his car, with no emergency in progress, and raced onto a live race track during a live race. I think that this information alone pretty much sums up that the reason Ward lost his life, is because Ward went against every race track and racing league's strict rules and recklessly ran into a moving vehicle.

 

[SonicHawk]

I am trying to remove any type of bias or preconceived notions and focus on exactly what we can see and know is fact. Most rational people have come to this conclusion:

"What the video shows is pretty limited. From what anyone and everyone can see from the video, Ward jumps out of his car in an emotional state and runs down into the race line where numerous cars are passing by. The first car that passes by after Ward is out of his car and on the track narrowly misses him as he is recklessly walking into the race line and pointing at Stewart without looking where he is going. In the video, one can only see Ward and the Stewart car for fractions of a second before Ward is struck by Stewart's car.

Considering all things and what we can ACTUALLY SEE ON VIDEO, without any type of hear-say or questioning what was going through either driver's heads, one can only come to the assumption that Ward was solely responsible for the very unfortunate accident that took his life."

If you want to take it a step further and look at it through the INFORMED EYE, like through the eyes of someone like HoustonHawk, Ward would have immediately been banned for the remainder of the season as he got out of his car, with no emergency in progress, and raced onto a live race track during a live race.

What does being banned have to do with anything?

And, congratulations to HoustonHawk, I played baseball in college, I must know what it's like to be Mike Trout. His informed eye only suggested that there's a good chance that Tony Stewart wasn't fully in control of what he was trying to do which I completely agree. At no point anywhere would I suggest that Stewart's actions were intentional, however as an experienced driver as Stewart, he should have never been in that position.

 

[-The Glove-]

I am trying to remove any type of bias or preconceived notions and focus on exactly what we can see and know is fact. Most rational people have come to this conclusion:

"What the video shows is pretty limited. From what anyone and everyone can see from the video, Ward jumps out of his car in an emotional state and runs down into the race line where numerous cars are passing by. The first car that passes by after Ward is out of his car and on the track narrowly misses him as he is recklessly walking into the race line and pointing at Stewart without looking where he is going. In the video, one can only see Ward and the Stewart car for fractions of a second before Ward is struck by Stewart's car.

Considering all things and what we can ACTUALLY SEE ON VIDEO, without any type of hear-say or questioning what was going through either driver's heads, one can only come to the assumption that Ward was solely responsible for the very unfortunate accident that took his life."

If you want to take it a step further and look at it through the INFORMED EYE, like through the eyes of someone like HoustonHawk, Ward would have immediately been banned for the remainder of the season as he got out of his car, with no emergency in progress, and raced onto a live race track during a live race.

What does being banned have to do with anything?

And, congratulations to HoustonHawk, I played baseball in college, I must know what it's like to be Mike Trout. His informed eye only suggested that there's a good chance that Tony Stewart wasn't fully in control of what he was trying to do which I completely agree. At no point anywhere would I suggest that Stewart's actions were intentional, however as an experienced driver as Stewart, he should have never been in that position.

What position is that?