The Roger Goodell thread

[endzorn]

To be fair, if my paycheck was north of $40million dollars a year to be the most powerful man in a $9billion/yr business there is NO WAY I'd ever resign either. You could catch me with my pants down kneeling next to a tranquilized emu and I'd tell you I was doing what was best for the league.

I kind of like this whole train wreck. I'd rather the news be dominated by actual football talk, but having the public exercise their collective self-righteousness is always entertaining. When it comes to Goodell, if he had suspended Rice indefinitely from the start people would have called him a POS and claimed Janay should learn to take a punch. Domestic violence is a horrible issue, but it was horrible before Rice gave his wife the Robin Givens treatment but now that the public gets to be outraged this is snowballing into issues that have nothing to do with the central issue.

 

[huskylawyer]

Nice, FBI-style investigation that will be made public.

I bet a bunch of people still just want Goodell fired right now, the same guys that say let's wait to see what the real truth is when a player gets in trouble.

:snack:

I do.

Like Roger said when he suspended Payton, ignorance is not an excuse. All the sudden, I didn't know has become valid?

He didn't know what? I'm still waiting for some one to tell me what Roger had to gain by covering up the tape and going easy on Ray boom boom Rice ?

Are you related to Goodell lol?

First, do you EVER hold the top guy accountable? It seems fairly obvious that the NFL had the tape. So why didn't it go up the chain of command? That fact that Goodell's defense may be, "Nobody brought it to my attention" is bad, as most legit organizations will old the top dog accountable for his underlings with respect to big issues.

And finally, when do criminals, fraudsters and the like act rationally or logically? That's why they are in trouble, because they don't act rationally or logically. No, Goodell isn't a criminal, but the, "I didn't know" excuse is as bad as, "I was just following orders."

 

[Zebulon Dak]

What the hell is any of this even for?? He punched the bitch. He got in trouble for it. She forgave him. It's over. Why can't it just be over?

 

[Scottemojo]

To be fair, if my paycheck was north of $40million dollars a year to be the most powerful man in a $9billion/yr business there is NO WAY I'd ever resign either. You could catch me with my pants down kneeling next to a tranquilized emu and I'd tell you I was doing what was best for the league.

I kind of like this whole train wreck. I'd rather the news be dominated by actual football talk, but having the public exercise their collective self-righteousness is always entertaining. When it comes to Goodell, if he had suspended Rice indefinitely from the start people would have called him a POS and claimed Janay should learn to take a punch. Domestic violence is a horrible issue, but it was horrible before Rice gave his wife the Robin Givens treatment but now that the public gets to be outraged this is snowballing into issues that have nothing to do with the central issue.

I fully admit I have wanted Roger gone for some time now. I think he is bad for the game (not the revenue) and a dishonest prick, and have wanted him gone for some time.

Hope they don't replace him with someone worse, if he gets replaces. My cynical side says the amount of money he has helped the league make means more than anything and he will be around a long time.

 

[DavidSeven]

I'm a realist. If Goodell is replaced, he's replaced with just another guy who advances the owners' agenda. Contrary to popular belief, that is the commissioner's job. This is not public office. Being a steward for the game isn't in the job description. The commissioner is the guy they hire to drive revenue, reduce liability and represent their interests against the union. Plain and simple. Every commissioner in pro sports is hated because of this fundamental misunderstanding of what their role is.

Anyway, this independent investigation doesn't really seem like a great use of everyone's time, but the twitter mob has spoken.

Goodell horribly misjudged the public's sensitivity to this issue. Whether he saw the tape or he didn't see the tape, I'm not sure why it really matters or why we've become so obsessed with this fact. He misjudged it, pure and simple. He even conceded that weeks ago. The conspiracy ends there. No one was trying to prop up Ray Rice or hide some dirty secret. They made a judgement call based on expected public reaction and whiffed. Both versions of the tape showed a horrible, horrible act was committed. A lot of smart people made the wrong call (NFL lawyers, John Harbaugh, Ozzie Newsome, etc.). However, it's not like they had a ton of useful precedent to work with. A lot of accused, but unconvicted, DV offenders had previously gotten off scott-free (including a beloved member of the Seahawks organization). Ray Rice, also uncovicted, got two games. He should've got more. The video evidence was a game changer that made prior precedent worthless. But again, these people aren't reacting off emotion or with malice. They're trying to figure out what a majority of the public wants. Sometimes they get it wrong, which they did here. I'm ready to point that out and move on already.

If they lied or stretched the truth to save face, then shame on them. But, you know, welcome to politics and lawyering. If that's enough grounds to force him out, then so be it. However, I'm not naive enough to believe the next guy isn't going to be just as reviled by the public in due time.

 

[pmedic920]

What the hell is any of this even for?? He punched the bitch. He got in trouble for it. She forgave him. It's over. Why can't it just be over?

Unfortunately because it's no longer just a sports story.
Just about every group that can use this story to their benefit is doing so.
It's gunna get uglier before it goes away.
Least the way I see it.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Nice, FBI-style investigation that will be made public.

I bet a bunch of people still just want Goodell fired right now, the same guys that say let's wait to see what the real truth is when a player gets in trouble.

:snack:

I do.

Like Roger said when he suspended Payton, ignorance is not an excuse. All the sudden, I didn't know has become valid?

I just want to know all the facts before setting my opinion of what should be done in stone. A bounty program half your team's running, guys you're around every day, compared to some exec getting that footage that you may not even see more than twice a year or something and they're purposely trying to hide it from you, (if that's what happened; and I'm not saying it is, but it looks pretty obvious that whomever this exec is, they didn't try to spread it around, so to speak) rather different scenarios.

Unless you think not knowing something is automatically always tantamount to guilt. In which case, our head coach is a giant cheater, too.

 

[kearly]

What the hell is any of this even for?? He punched the bitch. He got in trouble for it. She forgave him. It's over. Why can't it just be over?

Two reasons. First, the twitter outrage machine that was birthed by Donald Sterling's mistresses tape recorder has become an unstoppable force in American society, (and not just with sports). And second, because most NFL fans already wanted Goodell's head on a pike for years anyway, and this was the perfect excuse to go after him.

On the second count, I fully admit to being guilty.

 

[kearly]

I'm a realist. If Goodell is replaced, he's replaced with just another guy who advances the owners' agenda. Contrary to popular belief, that is the commissioner's job. This is not public office. Being a steward for the game isn't in the job description. The commissioner is the guy they hire to drive revenue, reduce liability and represent their interests against the union. Plain and simple. Every commissioner in pro sports is hated because of this fundamental misunderstanding of what their role is.

Anyway, this independent investigation doesn't really seem like a great use of everyone's time, but the twitter mob has spoken.

Goodell horribly misjudged the public's sensitivity to this issue. Whether he saw the tape or he didn't see the tape, I'm not sure why it really matters or why we've become so obsessed with this fact. He misjudged it, pure and simple. He even conceded that weeks ago. The conspiracy ends there. No one was trying to prop up Ray Rice or hide some dirty secret. They made a judgement call based on expected public reaction and whiffed. Both versions of the tape showed a horrible, horrible act was committed. A lot of smart people made the wrong call (NFL lawyers, John Harbaugh, Ozzie Newsome, etc.). However, it's not like they had a ton of useful precedent to work with. A lot of accused, but unconvicted, DV offenders had previously gotten off scott-free (including a beloved member of the Seahawks organization). Ray Rice, also uncovicted, got two games. He should've got more. The video evidence was a game changer that made prior precedent worthless. But again, these people aren't reacting off emotion or with malice. They're trying to figure out what a majority of the public wants. Sometimes they get it wrong, which they did here. I'm ready to point that out and move on already.

If they lied or stretched the truth to save face, then shame on them. But, you know, welcome to politics and lawyering. If that's enough grounds to force him out, then so be it. However, I'm not naive enough to believe the next guy isn't going to be just as reviled by the public in due time.

I understand your cynicism. This whole thing reminds me of the Arab Spring. Such a wonderful event at its inception, but it ultimately resulted in Middle-Eastern society taking a big step backwards due to the unintended consequences it created.

I choose to be a foolish optimist. I'm hoping that this is such a black eye that the owners will have no choice but to elect an honorable commissioner who will give the league a much better image, even if he doesn't raise profits quite as fast as Goodell did.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I choose to be a foolish optimist. I'm hoping that this is such a black eye that the owners will have no choice but to elect an honorable commissioner who will give the league a much better image, even if he doesn't raise profits quite as fast as Goodell did.

You don't think the NFL commissioner position is just essentially in existence to do what the owners want done?

 

[Sports Hernia]

I choose to be a foolish optimist. I'm hoping that this is such a black eye that the owners will have no choice but to elect an honorable commissioner who will give the league a much better image, even if he doesn't raise profits quite as fast as Goodell did.

You don't think the NFL commissioner position is just essentially in existence to do what the owners want done?

So you think he is a "powerless figurehead"? ....and if so, why are they paying him 44 million dollars a year?

 

[RolandDeschain]

So you think he is a "powerless figurehead"? ....and if so, why are they paying him 44 million dollars a year?

Powerless? Absolutely not. I do think that whomever sits that chair doesn't have anywhere near as much free will to do their job with as most people think, though.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

Past commissioners have taken a stand against owners when they thought it was for the good of the game. Paul Tagliabue not letting Tom Benson move the Saints to San Antonio, for one example. There's a delicate balance there between representing the owners and being a diplomat for the game in general. Goodell is great at repping the owners - see how favorable the CBA is toward owners, how weak the NFLPA in general is, and how cities are falling over themselves to give guys like Jerry Richardson and Arthur Blank millions of dollars for new digs - but not so good at that second thing.

I also don't want to downplay the stress and negotiating skill involved in Goodell's work negotiating TV rights, etc., but the popularity of the game is so explosive that I would guess that it barely matters whom is commissioner past a baseline level of education and experience in the business of sports. Those exorbitant TV deals were always going to happen. The NFL Network was always going to happen. Even the draft becoming an event over multiple days and being moved from city to city was always going to happen. When the popularity of a league grows, that is pretty much due to the quality of play - the players - and the insatiable desire for sports as entertainment - the fans. The owners, and by proxy the commissioner, are along for what amounts to a very lucrative ride.

There are such things as strong commissioners and weak commissioners; to reduce a commissioner to his owners seems foolhardy. Goodell is ultimately a weak commissioner.

Screw it, the owners should force him to resign and then hire Condoleezza Rice. That would be a heck of a power play. :lol:

 

[chris98251]

Past commissioners have taken a stand against owners when they thought it was for the good of the game. Paul Tagliabue not letting Tom Benson move the Saints to San Antonio, for one example. There's a delicate balance there between representing the owners and being a diplomat for the game in general. Goodell is great at repping the owners - see how favorable the CBA is toward owners, how weak the NFLPA in general is, and how cities are falling over themselves to give guys like Jerry Richardson and Arthur Blank millions of dollars for new digs - but not so good at that second thing.

I also don't want to downplay the stress and negotiating skill involved in Goodell's work negotiating TV rights, etc., but the popularity of the game is so explosive that I would guess that it barely matters whom is commissioner past a baseline level of education and experience in the business of sports. Those exorbitant TV deals were always going to happen. The NFL Network was always going to happen. Even the draft becoming an event over multiple days and being moved from city to city was always going to happen. When the popularity of a league grows, that is pretty much due to the quality of play - the players - and the insatiable desire for sports as entertainment - the fans. The owners, and by proxy the commissioner, are along for what amounts to a very lucrative ride.

There are such things as strong commissioners and weak commissioners; to reduce a commissioner to his owners seems foolhardy. Goodell is ultimately a weak commissioner.

Screw it, the owners should force him to resign and then hire Condoleezza Rice. That would be a heck of a power play. :lol:

It would also support DV violence review position I think.

 

[kearly]

I choose to be a foolish optimist. I'm hoping that this is such a black eye that the owners will have no choice but to elect an honorable commissioner who will give the league a much better image, even if he doesn't raise profits quite as fast as Goodell did.

You don't think the NFL commissioner position is just essentially in existence to do what the owners want done?

There is a huge difference between the way Goodell has gone about his business and the way his predecessors did. Huge.

Now to answer your question. I am generally pro-owner. I was 100% on the owners side during the 2011 labor dispute, and it is one of the very few things I have absolute praise of Goodell for. I am just fine with the commisioner representing the owners to an extent. It's basically his job to do so.

What bugs me about Goodell is the idiotic way he's gone about it, proposing changes that are bad for the game but might make them slightly less liable or slightly more profitable. Such as...

Banning certain celebrations for no particular reason

The potential 1 year ban for weed

The proposed 18 game schedule

Thursday Night football (despite players saying they need 6 days of rest to recover, and that home teams almost always win these games)

The rule changes that have spiked penalties and made the game almost unwatchable (not just talking about 2014 either)

The proposed expanded playoffs which would allow more 8-8 and 7-9 teams to make it at the expense of a legit contending team getting that second bye week

The proposed long extra point, which would cause the number of games lost by random bad luck on a PAT to jump 10 times.

NFL in London, which would be a travel nightmare and will probably turn into a huge mess very quickly if it fails to catch on with the locals.

The kickoff being moved to reduce the value of special teams, while having no provable benefit towards concussions

The general pussy-ification of the game

...

The NFL has really taken off since Goodell took over, but I think that has very little to do with his decisions, and a lot more to do with a vastly improved college game preparing players for the NFL much better than before, particularly at QB. Not to mention, the success of college innovation and influence which has made the game more fun to watch.

IMO, you could put a do-nothing guy at Commissioner and he would be better than Goodell on most issues.

 

[Jville]

Sounds like a serial implementation of NFL owner's wishes without a master plan.

 

[RolandDeschain]

There is a huge difference between the way Goodell has gone about his business and the way his predecessors did. Huge.

Well, it's also a completely different world now than it was even 15 years ago. WILDLY different. Hard to compare, frankly - like comparing passing stats from Marino's era to the modern day NFL.

Banning certain celebrations for no particular reason

Which celebrations are you referring to? If it's the goal post dunk, Graham delaying a game by bending the damn thing easily explains that, IMO; as in, I don't blame the league for banning it after that. If something else, elaborate further, please.

The potential 1 year ban for weed

Yeah, weed just needs to be an allowed substance. That being said...We only ever have the players' word that it's weed these guys are busted for. It's all but guaranteed that at least some of these substance abuse suspensions where the players just claim "weed" are actually for something a lot harder. The league keeping mum about what substance any given player gets suspended for is a pretty big boon for the player in terms of public relations.

The proposed 18 game schedule

You referring to how they wanted to implement 18 games specifically, or the idea of an 18-game regular season in the first place? I'm all for the latter. A full month of games meaning nothing gets rather old.

Thursday Night football (despite players saying they need 6 days of rest to recover, and that home teams almost always win these games)

As a fan, I love it. The fact that Richard Sherman loves Thursday Night Football games (he's on record saying that) is evidence that not all players are against them. There's also no increased injury rate for them. Furthermore, Thursday Night Football has been at a competitive disadvantage as far as choosing premier competitive games by design, which in my opinion, is mostly what accounts for home teams winning more/just fewer competitive games in general. Sure, if one team has a full week or more of preparation time compared to the other having a shorter week, that's less planning time.

So what? That's already been the case for many decades due to bye weeks, and we already know that teams perform approximately the same after a bye week as they do in any other week correlating to their overall record for the year, so an extra week of preparation and rest doesn't seem to matter much, if any, which also would suggest that the team at a disadvantage in terms of having the shorter week versus their opponent would likely even out over the course of a season because virtually every team plays a Thursday Night game against another team that does either that week or in another week that year. I think the whole "Thursday Night Football is bad for football/the players/the teams/whatever" thing is wildly overblown, to be honest. If you have proof or strong evidence otherwise, I'd love to see it. (Serious request, I'm not trolling.)

The rule changes that have spiked penalties and made the game almost unwatchable (not just talking about 2014 either)

I agree with this. You know what, though? A pretty good number of the rule changes in recent years have been done to promote player safety. Plenty also coincide with "more profits due to fewer injuries to stars", of course, but we can't pretend that there isn't also a good benefit to the players themselves, even though they whine as do the fans about turning it into the "No Fun League" while also blaming the league for not improving safety, which is of course hypocrisy.

The proposed expanded playoffs which would allow more 8-8 and 7-9 teams to make it at the expense of a legit contending team getting that second bye week

I am absolutely in agreement with this. I don't want the playoffs touched. At all. The current system is perfection, in my opinion.

The proposed long extra point, which would cause the number of games lost by random bad luck on a PAT to jump 10 times.

I still don't get why you made such a big deal of this. It was a proposed experiment set to run for two weeks that no matter what, was never going to be implemented for this season. I cannot fathom one possible reason why experimenting with things during the preseason is bad. I'm all for trying new things out, and I think everybody else should be, too.

NFL in London, which would be a travel nightmare and will probably turn into a huge mess very quickly if it fails to catch on with the locals.

Yep, hate this. Start a new, separate league in Europe. I'd love that. Don't make American teams travel there for games.

The kickoff being moved to reduce the value of special teams, while having no provable benefit towards concussions

Hated that too.

The general pussy-ification of the game

Eh, I'm fine with anyone that wants to dislike this...As long as they don't whine about wanting to see increased safety.

IMO, you could put a do-nothing guy at Commissioner and he would be better than Goodell on most issues.

Can't say I agree, but I understand your perspective on it, and it's certainly possible.

 

[Wagon12]

Goodell needs to go... This "independent investigation" is a joke, guaranteed...

 

[DavidSeven]

I really don't care how this turns out one way or the other. I'm mostly interested in rational outcomes.

With that in mind, let's be honest with ourselves. The reason people are coming down hard on Goodell is because they don't like Goodell for independent reasons. As kearly mentioned, this is convenient excuse to oust him. If you think that's for the greater good, fine (and maybe it is). But let's be real.

Not saying there should be, but where is the outrage over Ozzie Newsome and John Harbaugh failing to request the tape from Rice? Aren't they the ones who put on that victim-shaming press conference that we all found objectionable? There's no outrage because people like those guys. Far be it from me to defend the guy, but you can bet if this was Jim Harbaugh, the press and the public would be treating him a lot differently than his (more likable) brother right now.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I love how Ray Rice hits his fiancee so everyone wants the commissioner gone while nary a word is spoken about Greg Hardy, who is GUILTY of even worse, and more than once.

But since we've got VIDEO of this one, everybody's up in arms. SMH.