Sorry... Another Jimmy thread. Honest question, help.

[acbass]

I say screw him and just make him a WR. Quit trying to put him in a position where he has to block. That guy should be running WR routes every play. Let Willson do the dirty work.

 

[HomerJHawk]

I've seen 2-3 throws to him in the last 2 games where he doesn't reach, or jump, or break to the ball. Its as if he expects it to be right on target, and if not, well Jimmy ain't gonna play that. Kinda disheartening to see. I hope its not a trend.

 

[Hawks46]

Not to stir the pot, but before we start shifting an entire offense toward Graham, I honestly need more evidence that he's more than just a situational player or that he is more useful out wide than shiftier WRs who can work with a scramble-drill QB. I get that he's a beast in the redzone; I've seen it. Does this necessarily mean he should be eating up all the targets?

Here's an underreported stat: before he was traded, New Orleans had Graham's snap count in steady decline and it was around 70% toward the end of last year. A few months later, the Saints cold call John Schneider and ask if he'd like to take Graham off their hands for inexplicable reasons. Even more inexplicable, John shrugs his shoulders and hands over a 1st round pick. I said then that was way too much for a player New Orleans had seemingly quit on. Does a 70% play count sound like an indispensable player who should be the centerpiece of an offense? Gronkowski plays all the snaps -- if he's healthy, he's in the game. Jimmy was playing less than a slot receiver.

Don't get me wrong, use him. And use him at what he's good at. But this expectation that he would be an unstoppable force up and down the field was a bit unrealistic from the beginning IMO.

Graham was also dealing with a few nagging injuries last year that he played through. In that situation, I can see the coaching staff monitoring his snap count. It's a very similar comparison to when Lynch was dealing with back issues last year and Turbin got a lot more carries.

You can also look at NO's offense this year. It clearly has been affected by Graham's trade and they don't look nearly as good so far as they did last year.

Our offensive woes have very little to do with Graham being here. We also spent all last year with Willson as our #1 blocking TE in the running game, and it wasn't that adverse. Graham is a very similar blocker to Willson, and when he gets proper positioning, moves his man a LOT better than Willson does.

 

[Anthony!]

I've seen 2-3 throws to him in the last 2 games where he doesn't reach, or jump, or break to the ball. Its as if he expects it to be right on target, and if not, well Jimmy ain't gonna play that. Kinda disheartening to see. I hope its not a trend.

If true that might be why he is not getting the ball more, no effort. The problem could be he is so use to being the #1 guy , the guy who is first and 2nd option he does not know how to handle being 1 of several guys. I have watched the saints when he was with them the ball was not always on target there either.

 

[Scottemojo]

I've seen 2-3 throws to him in the last 2 games where he doesn't reach, or jump, or break to the ball. Its as if he expects it to be right on target, and if not, well Jimmy ain't gonna play that. Kinda disheartening to see. I hope its not a trend.

If true that might be why he is not getting the ball more, no effort. The problem could be he is so use to being the #1 guy , the guy who is first and 2nd option he does not know how to handle being 1 of several guys. I have watched the saints when he was with them the ball was not always on target there either.

Yeah, he didn't reach for that TD he caught. LOL.

The guy averaged more TDs a year than a single Seahawk has caught in the last 4 years. And you are trying to paint him as the reason he isn't getting targets.

It is either Bevell or Wilson. It isn't Graham.

Lets face facts. Wilson trusts Kearse to make plays, and doesn't yet trust Graham.

 

[djb28]

Can we trade him back for Unger?

 

[HomerJHawk]

I've seen 2-3 throws to him in the last 2 games where he doesn't reach, or jump, or break to the ball. Its as if he expects it to be right on target, and if not, well Jimmy ain't gonna play that. Kinda disheartening to see. I hope its not a trend.

If true that might be why he is not getting the ball more, no effort. The problem could be he is so use to being the #1 guy , the guy who is first and 2nd option he does not know how to handle being 1 of several guys. I have watched the saints when he was with them the ball was not always on target there either.

Yeah, he didn't reach for that TD he caught. LOL.

The guy averaged more TDs a year than a single Seahawk has caught in the last 4 years. And you are trying to paint him as the reason he isn't getting targets.

It is either Bevell or Wilson. It isn't Graham.

Lets face facts. Wilson trusts Kearse to make plays, and doesn't yet trust Graham.

I hear ya. Just an observation. No painting, yet. And maybe I'm off base. More tape will tell.
But you can see Jimmy isn't happy, and he just got here. Many of them aren't. Offense better work this out soon.

Fire Bevell. Seriously.

 

[SalishHawkFan]

I've seen 2-3 throws to him in the last 2 games where he doesn't reach, or jump, or break to the ball. Its as if he expects it to be right on target, and if not, well Jimmy ain't gonna play that. Kinda disheartening to see. I hope its not a trend.

If true that might be why he is not getting the ball more, no effort. The problem could be he is so use to being the #1 guy , the guy who is first and 2nd option he does not know how to handle being 1 of several guys. I have watched the saints when he was with them the ball was not always on target there either.

Yeah, he didn't reach for that TD he caught. LOL.

The guy averaged more TDs a year than a single Seahawk has caught in the last 4 years. And you are trying to paint him as the reason he isn't getting targets.

It is either Bevell or Wilson. It isn't Graham.

Lets face facts. Wilson trusts Kearse to make plays, and doesn't yet trust Graham.

I hear ya. Just an observation. No painting, yet. And maybe I'm off base. More tape will tell.
But you can see Jimmy isn't happy, and he just got here. Many of them aren't. Offense better work this out soon.

Fire Bevell. Seriously.

yeah, I think this is Wilson's fault. He's supposed to make the plays. But Fire Bevell. This offense needs new leadership.

 

[Tical21]

Scotte pretty much nailed it. The 50/50 balls pretty much go only to Kearse. I think some of it is left over from Percy. We tried to force him the ball and that was negative. Russell focused on him a little too much and just about got him decapitated a few times. If he doesn't throw Jimmy the ball, Jimmy can't get annoyed with being hung out to dry or by bad poor passes. Dunno if I'm onto something or grasping at theories there. It's just going to have to click at some point. Russell needs to have that "Aha!" moment. He's going to be under pressure and wing one up to Graham and he's going to go nuts on it and bring it down, and Russell's going to figure out that he can get away with doing that quite often.

Right now, since Graham doesn't have elite speed or run crisp routes, he isn't finding himself as open as Russell would prefer his targets to be. I'm definitely thinking it is on Russell and not Bevell, just because Russell never even really looks at him. It's like he has an aversion. If there aren't background issues going on, I think we're just waiting for Russell to figure out how to complete passes to him.

 

[theincrediblesok]

This offense is built around Lynch, everything they do is built around him and the running game. Even Wilson, Graham, Baldwin, etc are just the supporting cast.

 

[nanomoz]

This offense is built around Lynch, everything they do is built around him and the running game. Even Wilson, Graham, Baldwin, etc are just the supporting cast.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but Graham is a dang expensive supporting cast member. Is it possible that John and Pete believe Graham is valuable because his presence could help Russell understand that ball placement can make a covered receiver a good option (when they have Grham's talents)?

Nah, I'm reaching.

 

[netskier]

Russell works for the coaching chain which works for Pete who needs to order the chain to solve this. Matthews would help Graham by absorbing some of the tall defenders.

 

[kf3339]

The fault on this whole situation about not just Graham's lack of production, but the offense as a whole rest first and foremost with PC. He has drummed the "make no mistakes and protect the ball" so hard that it makes RW and possibly even Bevell in being too timid and conservative.

That doesn't excuse Bevell's complete lack on competence for running an offense. He is just too over-matched and PC doesn't see it.

But I do believe this has had a significant affect on RW not willing to take enough chances with the passing game. You can see this with how he plays the position and lack of willingness to throw into tight coverage, or even to have designed timing plays to any real extent.

If I was RW I would just go off and start being aggressive every play on offense. Damn the risk or occassional turnovers for being aggressive. He needs to get out of this timid cycle and basically to tell Bevell and PC to go to hell. They aren't going to replace him in the line-up.

But if he keeps being so timid after his fourth year in the league starting then you have to start to wonder if he will ever evolve to the next level as a top level passer in this league.

As for Graham he is not the problem, but could become one if we don't get him going this season. We all know what happened with Harvin.

 

[Siouxhawk]

I wouldn't call the strategy that Pete employs on offense conservative. He just wants to come out ahead in the turnover ratio dept. and wants a game called that emphasizes ball security and field position. It's worked great the last 2 years.
When our offensive line comes together and starts hammering out holes for Marshawn, we will be just fine. It's still a very good system.
And it's not true that Russ doesn't take chances. In fact, I thought he was throwing into double coverage way too much. He did have two touchdown passes by the way.

 

[scutterhawk]

I wouldn't call the strategy that Pete employs on offense conservative. He just wants to come out ahead in the turnover ratio dept. and wants a game called that emphasizes ball security and field position. It's worked great the last 2 years.
When our offensive line comes together and starts hammering out holes for Marshawn, we will be just fine. It's still a very good system.
And it's not true that Russ doesn't take chances. In fact, I thought he was throwing into double coverage way too much. He did have two touchdown passes by the way.

IMHO, This is exactly right, where the hell are these comparisons between Harvin the "Sniveler" and Jimmy Graham coming from?
As mentioned above, I believe the connections between Wilson and Graham will eventually meld.
Defenses (especially the Rams front Four) was blowing the doors off of the Seahawks O-Line, and not allowing RW the opportunity to get into a rhythm with Graham.
Graham might have been targeted 8 times in the St Lousy game, but Wilson wasn't afforded any time to set his feet to make a pass.
Rodgers & Brady both have quick releases, but they are often making jump passes while under pressure.
The better the Seahawks O-Line gets at protecting Wilson, the more we will see Graham getting the ball.