RUSS IS NOT PROBLEM

[CPHawk]

The problem is the same as if has been for years. The OL. It doesn’t need fixed in the draft, we need to pay FA this year to fix it.

 

[keasley45]

The problem is the same as if has been for years. The OL. It doesn’t need fixed in the draft, we need to pay FA this year to fix it.

the o-line was more than adequate this year. they will look worse than they are when you have a QB that chooses to hold the ball and not throw to the guys that are designed to be the open read.

Its not Pete mandating the hero ball. He's been vocal on more than one occassion about being patient and taking what the defense gives... actually not going deep constantly. This is Russ. And i think he was trying to force things all season. the offense might have been dialed back a bit but the plays still worked. Seems to me Russ chose to look for the long ball anyway rather than take the easy plays. If you watch the film you see it over and over again. Theres blame to go around, but to try to keep Russ clean in this is absurd. He was a huge part of the issue.

 

[John63]

The problem is the same as if has been for years. The OL. It doesn’t need fixed in the draft, we need to pay FA this year to fix it.

the o-line was more than adequate this year. they will look worse than they are when you have a QB that chooses to hold the ball and not throw to the guys that are designed to be the open read.

Its not Pete mandating the hero ball. He's been vocal on more than one occassion about being patient and taking what the defense gives... actually not going deep constantly. This is Russ. And i think he was trying to force things all season. the offense might have been dialed back a bit but the plays still worked. Seems to me Russ chose to look for the long ball anyway rather than take the easy plays. If you watch the film you see it over and over again. Theres blame to go around, but to try to keep Russ clean in this is absurd. He was a huge part of the issue.

really and how do you know who Wilson is supposed to throw to? you dont . PC has also said he does not like short passes, he wants to run and throw long. and FYI I do blame Wilson for some yesterday, But the reality is this starts at the top adn that is PC

 

[Sea84hawks]

LMAO...

There are actually some who say that Pete tells him not to throw short passes, not to throw to TEs, not to run, not to keep the run option... Yes it's Pete telling him to throw 40 harder every play or take sacks! Lol.. some of you don't have any clue about football!

 

[John63]

LMAO...

There are actually some who say that Pete tells him not to throw short passes, not to throw to TEs, not to run, not to keep the run option... Yes it's Pete telling him to throw 40 harder every play or take sacks! Lol.. some of you don't have any clue about football!

Actually when your HC comes out and says it that makes it open-and-shut. PC has said he want stop run and throw long, that he does not like short passing. Gee I wonder what you take form that as a player?

 

[keasley45]

The problem is the same as if has been for years. The OL. It doesn’t need fixed in the draft, we need to pay FA this year to fix it.

the o-line was more than adequate this year. they will look worse than they are when you have a QB that chooses to hold the ball and not throw to the guys that are designed to be the open read.

Its not Pete mandating the hero ball. He's been vocal on more than one occassion about being patient and taking what the defense gives... actually not going deep constantly. This is Russ. And i think he was trying to force things all season. the offense might have been dialed back a bit but the plays still worked. Seems to me Russ chose to look for the long ball anyway rather than take the easy plays. If you watch the film you see it over and over again. Theres blame to go around, but to try to keep Russ clean in this is absurd. He was a huge part of the issue.

really and how do you know who Wilson is supposed to throw to? you dont . PC has also said he does not like short passes, he wants to run and throw long. and FYI I do blame Wilson for some yesterday, But the reality is this starts at the top adn that is PC

I dont understand that question at a fundamental level. Again. this is not rocket science. Swain is running a go. Lock is coming across the pattern and is option one depending on the outside CB's play (seattle has run this play a hundred times). If the CB sits shallow, Lock isnt the read unless he can hitt it on the up and catch the CB flat (And theres no saftey overtop - which is why Swain is going Deep). The easy first down is to hit your #1 WR on a cross against a LB. That is football 101. Basic. Fundamental Football.

And again, to actually say that in the face of an obvious first down play to a wide open WR, we failed because Pete Carrol has son concretely drilled into Russ's brain that under no circumstances are you to throw

A to a WR over the middle
B to a wr on a cross
C to a wide open WR in either of those situations

and isntead just lob up a 50/50 jump ball at 45 yards down field when we only need 4?

You're saying thats what Pete wants and mandates? because thats what it HAS To be for Russ to not have thrown the obvious ball on that play and soooo many others.

 

[John63]

The problem is the same as if has been for years. The OL. It doesn’t need fixed in the draft, we need to pay FA this year to fix it.

the o-line was more than adequate this year. they will look worse than they are when you have a QB that chooses to hold the ball and not throw to the guys that are designed to be the open read.

Its not Pete mandating the hero ball. He's been vocal on more than one occassion about being patient and taking what the defense gives... actually not going deep constantly. This is Russ. And i think he was trying to force things all season. the offense might have been dialed back a bit but the plays still worked. Seems to me Russ chose to look for the long ball anyway rather than take the easy plays. If you watch the film you see it over and over again. Theres blame to go around, but to try to keep Russ clean in this is absurd. He was a huge part of the issue.

really and how do you know who Wilson is supposed to throw to? you dont . PC has also said he does not like short passes, he wants to run and throw long. and FYI I do blame Wilson for some yesterday, But the reality is this starts at the top adn that is PC

I dont understand that question at a fundamental level. Again. this is not rocket science. Swain is running a go. Lock is coming across the pattern and is option one depending on the outside CB's play (seattle has run this play a hundred times). If the CB sits shallow, Lock isnt the read unless he can hitt it on the up and catch the CB flat (And theres no saftey overtop - which is why Swain is going Deep). The easy first down is to hit your #1 WR on a cross against a LB. That is football 101. Basic. Fundamental Football.

And again, to actually say that in the face of an obvious first down play to a wide open WR, we failed because Pete Carrol has son concretely drilled into Russ's brain that under no circumstances are you to throw

A to a WR over the middle
B to a wr on a cross
C to a wide open WR in either of those situations

and isntead just lob up a 50/50 jump ball at 45 yards down field when we only need 4?

You're saying thats what Pete wants and mandates? because thats what it HAS To be for Russ to not have thrown the obvious ball on that play and soooo many others.

I will make it simpler one more time

PC has said he hates short passing
He has said he want to throw long
He has said he hates throwing over the middle


he has said these things so what do you think is marching orders to his QB and OC are?

 

[keasley45]

LMAO...

There are actually some who say that Pete tells him not to throw short passes, not to throw to TEs, not to run, not to keep the run option... Yes it's Pete telling him to throw 40 harder every play or take sacks! Lol.. some of you don't have any clue about football!

Actually when your HC comes out and says it that makes it open-and-shut. PC has said he want stop run and throw long, that he does not like short passing. Gee I wonder what you take form that as a player?

You are confusing concept with strategy and leaving the actual playing of the game of football from 1st down to 4th out of the equation.

I want to work hard and play harder. that doesnt mean that if i pull an 80 hour work week that i wanna go skydiving without a parachute.

This offense has ALWAYS been run the ball and hit the big play. Pete has said it. Russ has said it. Its a philosophy across the NFL. That does not mean that by design you scheme an offense the way a 13yo play madden. And thats not what has happened. Russ is throwing teh deep ball all over the place because he wants to. The plays are designed to function otherwise and do, and he ignores it.

And Pete also said just last week that you HAVE TO TAKE WHAT THE D gives you and NOT go for thd highlight plays constantly. So no. The interpretation of that quote about the basic concept or identity of a football team and then twisting of it as a reason why the offense is running the way it has is just wrong. Its not running the way it should because in large part, Russ just isnt seeing the field and his WR or is choosing to ignore the called play or easy, on time play in favor of the big play.

 

[BamKam]

Just because Russ isn't THE problem doesn't mean he isn't A problem. He is getting paid like a player who no matter what kind of team is around him then the Seahawks are in contention. He has been anything but that for the 2nd half of a season and at this point it is getting extremely concerning. He is good enough to go 9-7 to 12-4 (when the schedule lines up) and win a playoff game (sometimes and matchup dependent) but thats about it. If you are happy with that then Russ is a fine but if you are looking to get to NFC Championships and Super Bowls consistently he has yet to prove he can do that I at this point I think we are late enough into his career where we can reliably say he cant.

This isn't to say he can't get back to the Super Bowl, because he can. He needs a GOOD team around him that isn't completely flawed in an area or two. The problem is with Russ eating up $35 million a year and no high end draft picks for the next couple of years, how is that team going to be achieved? Especially with so many big contracts coming up. This is like 2013 de ja vu again except at that time the team was elite.

There are many worse QB situations in the NFL currently but it doesn't mean we should just ignore the fact that we have been trying to build a team around Russ for years and it just hasn't worked out. Don't get me wrong, Russ is not the only problem, but I just don't see this teams ceiling changing anytime soon with him at QB.

 

[keasley45]

the o-line was more than adequate this year. they will look worse than they are when you have a QB that chooses to hold the ball and not throw to the guys that are designed to be the open read.

Its not Pete mandating the hero ball. He's been vocal on more than one occassion about being patient and taking what the defense gives... actually not going deep constantly. This is Russ. And i think he was trying to force things all season. the offense might have been dialed back a bit but the plays still worked. Seems to me Russ chose to look for the long ball anyway rather than take the easy plays. If you watch the film you see it over and over again. Theres blame to go around, but to try to keep Russ clean in this is absurd. He was a huge part of the issue.

really and how do you know who Wilson is supposed to throw to? you dont . PC has also said he does not like short passes, he wants to run and throw long. and FYI I do blame Wilson for some yesterday, But the reality is this starts at the top adn that is PC

I dont understand that question at a fundamental level. Again. this is not rocket science. Swain is running a go. Lock is coming across the pattern and is option one depending on the outside CB's play (seattle has run this play a hundred times). If the CB sits shallow, Lock isnt the read unless he can hitt it on the up and catch the CB flat (And theres no saftey overtop - which is why Swain is going Deep). The easy first down is to hit your #1 WR on a cross against a LB. That is football 101. Basic. Fundamental Football.

And again, to actually say that in the face of an obvious first down play to a wide open WR, we failed because Pete Carrol has son concretely drilled into Russ's brain that under no circumstances are you to throw

A to a WR over the middle
B to a wr on a cross
C to a wide open WR in either of those situations

and isntead just lob up a 50/50 jump ball at 45 yards down field when we only need 4?

You're saying thats what Pete wants and mandates? because thats what it HAS To be for Russ to not have thrown the obvious ball on that play and soooo many others.

I will make it simpler one more time

PC has said he hates short passing
He has said he want to throw long
He has said he hates throwing over the middle


he has said these things so what do you think is marching orders to his QB and OC are?

No coach like throwing over the middel. its the highest risk pass. That doesnt mean you actaully give up a third of trh field.

Ths offenss as long as pete has been here has been about throwing long. Nothing new. And because of it, Russel has been the most deadly long ball thrower in the league.

Pete has actually advocated for taking what the defense gives you and has said so multiple times since mid-season when all the questions were about why the offense was dialed back.

And why would the offense that rightfully should have been dialed back given Russ's INT rate simply not go back to what its alwasy been under Pete. Its been effective, and not the abysmal mess its been this year.

Sure, i buy 100% Pete said lets get more balanced. but the idea that in the desire to be more balanced, he lost hos mind and just said, run run run , 50 yard bomb is just lunacy.

And if you actually watch the game tape. The plays have been there, often blatantly wide open and Russ doesnt pull the trigger. Ans i sdai this before but if Russ is so meek that he would actually NOT THROW THE BALL TO A WIDE OPEN WR because 'coach said so' then give me another QB. But i dont beleive for a second that Pete Carroll ever said - dont throw to an open WR. I think he said avoid risks if you can. But so many of the misses have nothing to do with risk.

 

[keasley45]

And this is Carrols quote post game summing up the season:

"That doesn't mean we throw the ball over their head all of the time and going for just bombs," Carroll said. "But there's a lot of space we create in the play-passing game, and it seemed like during the course of the season, after the halfway point, we had hit so much early, we had been so effective that people found a way to stay back and just try to bleed us and make us have to throw the ball underneath, and we were maybe really going for it more than we needed to and didn't take advantage of switching gears a bit there as effectively as we would like."

You can read this as 'oops - i made the guys throw bombs allover the place and it didnt work'

Or

That it was obvious that the defenses werent going to give us the long ball and make us throw short and we just didnt do it. And that he was advocating for NOT going for it all the time.

So why didnt we throw short? Dont know. Why didnt we throw short here or in the countless other similar cases?

20210110_132816 by J_Otte, on Flickr

Seems Pete knew that the offensive scheme was creating a lot of space. He watches film and sees it. But he seems disappointed that we didnt switch gears sooner and take advantage.

So then maybe its Schotty? Except you van qwatch the tape and over and over again see Russ forgoing the short and medium stuff thats there for the long ball. So then what?

That sounds to me like a coach who his trying his darndest to cover for a QB that wouldnt (or couldnt) take the short stuff once the long stuff was taken away. And i'm leaning on actual evidence on the field to make taht assessment, not an emotional interpretation.

 

[Own The West]

keasley45, we hear you. You're right. It is a problem.

darkvictory, I agree with you to some extent. Russ has always held on to the ball a long time looking for the big play. That comes with the territory. However, I think the Let Russ Cook thing ended about midseason when teams started running a lot of 2 high safeties against us and -- as keasley45 points out -- Russ refused to adapt.

This year Russ had the highest completion % and most INTs of his career. That to me speaks of holding on to the ball until things are 'perfect' and forcing it when it is not. I'd love to see some 3-step quick passing game next year to compliment our usual long-play, run around until the defense gets tired passing game.

 

[John63]

And this is Carrols quote post game summing up the season:

"That doesn't mean we throw the ball over their head all of the time and going for just bombs," Carroll said. "But there's a lot of space we create in the play-passing game, and it seemed like during the course of the season, after the halfway point, we had hit so much early, we had been so effective that people found a way to stay back and just try to bleed us and make us have to throw the ball underneath, and we were maybe really going for it more than we needed to and didn't take advantage of switching gears a bit there as effectively as we would like."

You can read this as 'oops - i made the guys throw bombs allover the place and it didnt work'

Or

That it was obvious that the defenses werent going to give us the long ball and make us throw short and we just didnt do it. And that he was advocating for NOT going for it all the time.

So why didnt we throw short? Dont know. Why didnt we throw short here or in the countless other similar cases?

20210110_132816 by J_Otte, on Flickr

Seems Pete knew that the offensive scheme was creating a lot of space. He watches film and sees it. But he seems disappointed that we didnt switch gears sooner and take advantage.

So then maybe its Schotty? Except you van qwatch the tape and over and over again see Russ forgoing the short and medium stuff thats there for the long ball. So then what?

That sounds to me like a coach who his trying his darndest to cover for a QB that wouldnt (or couldnt) take the short stuff once the long stuff was taken away. And i'm leaning on actual evidence on the field to make taht assessment, not an emotional interpretation.

That great he covered his ass what a surprise. Means little. So in your mind its Wilson I guess after games 1-5 where he was throwing short alot he just said all by himself nope not doing it anymore? Sorry not buying it and actually know for a fact that is not what happened. Despite what PC said that is not what he is wanting.

 

[John63]

keasley45, we hear you. You're right. It is a problem.

darkvictory, I agree with you to some extent. Russ has always held on to the ball a long time looking for the big play. That comes with the territory. However, I think the Let Russ Cook thing ended about midseason when teams started running a lot of 2 high safeties against us and -- as keasley45 points out -- Russ refused to adapt.

This year Russ had the highest completion % and most INTs of his career. That to me speaks of holding on to the ball until things are 'perfect' and forcing it when it is not. I'd love to see some 3-step quick passing game next year to compliment our usual long-play, run around until the defense gets tired passing game.

we saw that in the first 5 games, he was not throwing long all the time. We went away form that, and that was not Wilson's choice.

 

[PNW]

I have to agree with the film, coaches get some of the blame, but Russ is paid top dollar and should also be held to a standard and not given a pass. Even a backup would be expected to hit wide open TE’s or WR’s. Making $35million a year Hollywood Russ doesn’t get any excuses he needs to take what the defense gives him.

 

[OrangeGravy]

LMAO...

There are actually some who say that Pete tells him not to throw short passes, not to throw to TEs, not to run, not to keep the run option... Yes it's Pete telling him to throw 40 harder every play or take sacks! Lol.. some of you don't have any clue about football!

Actually when your HC comes out and says it that makes it open-and-shut. PC has said he want stop run and throw long, that he does not like short passing. Gee I wonder what you take form that as a player?

Please stop. You're embarrassing yourself

 

[LTH]

When he is ....

1)constantly running for his life and has no time to throw

2) Not asked to run the ball regularly which we havent seen since his 3rd season n the league

Ive seen posts that say his legs are old and can't run. How can this be if they haven't been tested in probably five years??

3) team can't run the ball

Put Brady or Rodgers on this team and they aren't 12-4 or even 11-5. More like 8-8

The OC and the head coach’s offensive philosophy are the problem.
Pete is still coaching like he has a good offensive line, still has beastmode and the original LOB.
The talent level isn’t high enough to cover up consistent coaching mistakes anymore.

I think Pete is doing the best he can with that O line... they need to drop some draft capital in to that O line because Russ can not continue to take that kind of punishment he was sacked more than almost anybody in the league...


LTH

 

[OrangeGravy]

LMAO...

There are actually some who say that Pete tells him not to throw short passes, not to throw to TEs, not to run, not to keep the run option... Yes it's Pete telling him to throw 40 harder every play or take sacks! Lol.. some of you don't have any clue about football!

Actually when your HC comes out and says it that makes it open-and-shut. PC has said he want stop run and throw long, that he does not like short passing. Gee I wonder what you take form that as a player?

You are confusing concept with strategy and leaving the actual playing of the game of football from 1st down to 4th out of the equation.

I want to work hard and play harder. that doesnt mean that if i pull an 80 hour work week that i wanna go skydiving without a parachute.

This offense has ALWAYS been run the ball and hit the big play. Pete has said it. Russ has said it. Its a philosophy across the NFL. That does not mean that by design you scheme an offense the way a 13yo play madden. And thats not what has happened. Russ is throwing teh deep ball all over the place because he wants to. The plays are designed to function otherwise and do, and he ignores it.

And Pete also said just last week that you HAVE TO TAKE WHAT THE D gives you and NOT go for thd highlight plays constantly. So no. The interpretation of that quote about the basic concept or identity of a football team and then twisting of it as a reason why the offense is running the way it has is just wrong. Its not running the way it should because in large part, Russ just isnt seeing the field and his WR or is choosing to ignore the called play or easy, on time play in favor of the big play.

He doesn't understand how football works on any level. You're going to go mad trying to get him to understand anything.

 

[DarkVictory23]

keasley45, we hear you. You're right. It is a problem.

darkvictory, I agree with you to some extent. Russ has always held on to the ball a long time looking for the big play. That comes with the territory. However, I think the Let Russ Cook thing ended about midseason when teams started running a lot of 2 high safeties against us and -- as keasley45 points out -- Russ refused to adapt.

This year Russ had the highest completion % and most INTs of his career. That to me speaks of holding on to the ball until things are 'perfect' and forcing it when it is not. I'd love to see some 3-step quick passing game next year to compliment our usual long-play, run around until the defense gets tired passing game.

Yeah, Russ has always held onto the ball a long time. I mean, some of that makes sense: he's probably got the best arm in the league. He goes deep better than anybody. Any offensive scheme not designed to take advantage of that is poorly designed.

The problem was both a combo of Ds adapting (like you said) and Russ forcing things way more. And then we didn't adapt.

Additionally, I think our scheme has never adapted to the fact that Russ doesn't read 'keep' on his read-option plays anymore. I think that's fine (and I think it improves the results on the few times he does), but we scheme our entire running game as if he does and it handicaps our RBs. We've got a Pro-Bowl FB, an RB who keeps his feet going on first contact as good as anybody, and yet we still line up for every running play as though our strength is the deception of Russell possibly keeping and I simply don't think it is anymore.

 

[John63]

When he is ....

1)constantly running for his life and has no time to throw

2) Not asked to run the ball regularly which we havent seen since his 3rd season n the league

Ive seen posts that say his legs are old and can't run. How can this be if they haven't been tested in probably five years??

3) team can't run the ball

Put Brady or Rodgers on this team and they aren't 12-4 or even 11-5. More like 8-8

The OC and the head coach’s offensive philosophy are the problem.
Pete is still coaching like he has a good offensive line, still has beastmode and the original LOB.
The talent level isn’t high enough to cover up consistent coaching mistakes anymore.

I think Pete is doing the best he can with that O line... they need to drop some draft capital in to that O line because Russ can not continue to take that kind of punishment he was sacked more than almost anybody in the league...


LTH

I agree they need to do soemthign problem is they have needed to for 9 years and nothing