Running Backs, personnel questions

[SoulfishHawk]

There is no true way to know if a guy is going to be a good pro, just all opinions really. Good guy, amazing college RB, hopefully he'll do a little something in the NFL. I just don't agree that he's not fast and/or that he won't be able to make it in the NFL. A lot of assumptions, hopefully everyone tells him what he can't do :irishdrinkers:
No idea if he will be a good NFL player or not. I'm just not going to assume he WON'T be able to make it in the NFL because someone on a message board has already decided he won't make it. Shoot, Phillip Lindsay not only wasn't drafted, he wasn't even invited to the Combine. He was a pro bowler. I seriously doubt many people thought he would be that good in the NFL. I guess I just appreciate hearing about guys who were overlooked proving people wrong.

.02

 

[Uncle Si]

There is no true way to know if a guy is going to be a good pro, just all opinions really. Good guy, amazing college RB, hopefully he'll do a little something in the NFL. I just don't agree that he's not fast and/or that he won't be able to make it in the NFL. A lot of assumptions, hopefully everyone tells him what he can't do :irishdrinkers:
No idea if he will be a good NFL player or not. I'm just not going to assume he WON'T be able to make it in the NFL because someone on a message board has already decided he won't make it.

.02

There are a few positions where measurables are (far) more important than intangibles. RB is probably one of them.

The idea he's "not fast" needs context. Tical is saying a 4.5 is "not fast" for the position at this size. Based on that, and history, you can make some assumptions. None of us get paid to do it, so of course its fair to be incorrect

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Fair enough, go Myles :2thumbs:

 

[TwistedHusky]

Breaks my heart but Tical is probably right.

Gaskin has amazing vision. Someday he is going to be a great RB coach.

He is still going to be worth a roll of the dice though in the late 2nd day rounds though. Sometimes a rule exists until it is broken.

It is hard to look at that production, especially considering how much he carried the team, and not think some of that has to be applicable at the next level. But smallish backs without a great top-end speed will only work with amazing quickness. We have to see what his scores on that are.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yeah, maybe more special teams and back up RB. 4.56 is not that great for a RB, that was his best time today. Shoot, overall the RB's have been crazy slow in this combine. Clayton is talking about it right now as well, surprisingly slow times for RB's.
Oh well, still not buying that he won't make it in the NFL. If I'm wrong, so be it. Once again, I've still never said he was going to be a good NFL player. Way too much stock put in to 40 times. The league has had plenty of guys who weren't burners be successful. Hard to really say how he will be as a pro, time will tell. I know I'll be pulling for him big time.
:irishdrinkers:

 

[Tical21]

Oh, i think he'll get drafted. Don't see any reason he couldn't be an average-ish 3rd down back.

But we've seen GREAT undersized UW backs recently go into the pros and fail pretty badly. They just aren't big or fast enough, i.e. Sankey and Polk.

The all-time NCAA rushing list is hardly a list of successful NFL backs. It is usually guys that are better backs than they are a product of their tools, that were good enough physically to dominate in the NCAA based on skill. Where in the NFL, success can't be achieved unless you can either run around a LB or break their tackle.

4.56 is even slower than I thought he could run. That's disappointing.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yep, not a good time at all. Though the RB's in general have been really slow in the Combine today. I'll take game speed and production over a 40 time any day. But, point is well taken that this guy needed a much better time.

 

[Tical21]

There's actually been a few years lately where the RB's have been really slow, with very few running sub 4.5. Like the year Sankey got drafted, everybody was really slow. I think he ran a 4.52 and still went in the first. Then you'll see them all run much faster at their pro days. Damien Harris at 4.49 with a NFL body is my dude.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Just watched some highlights of him, he's a baller. Reminds me of Ray Rice. Especially build wise. Sounds like he's projected to go on Day 2 of the draft, maybe 2nd round?

 

[Tical21]

Just watched some highlights of him, he's a baller. Reminds me of Ray Rice. Especially build wise. Sounds like he's projected to go on Day 2 of the draft.

Yeah, but it's always such a crapshoot with Alabama backs. Really hard to judge how a guy hits a hole when he always has a huge one. Love him in the open field though.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yeah, their O Line is always ridiculous. Many guys from Bama get overworked and it kills them in the NFL.

 

[vin.couve12]

McKissic ran in the high 4.5s and low 4.6s at his pro day...not even an official time, and peoplr arou d here act like he's our fastest back even thougb his average 40 time is the slowest and goes down if he's touched.

Gaskin can be had late, is a better football player and athlete, and won't cost 1.5 mil to retain.

It's a no brainer.

I knew Gaskin was going to run in the 4.5s, just like I knew McCaffrey was going to run in tue 4.5s (later changed to 4.48) and Love would run somewhere in there too except that somebody is going to get robbed by drafting Love high because he has little to no contact balance, unlike Gaskin. It's Gaskin's odd squatty body style that's a pain in the arse for defenders. Sankey isn't really comparable. He was more like Love. More slender and more upright.

Again, it's a no brainer. If coaches still want that quick 3rd down type guy, get an upgrade, and save money at the same time.

 

[Tical21]

McKissick is a WR that wears a RB number and isn't a guy you would ever give more than a couple carries to. I also think he's a twitchier athlete than Gaskin. If you want to replace McKissick with Gaskin, whatever, sure. I'm in, I guess. But I don't want to replace Mike Davis with Gaskin.

Sankey is the same height and Gaskin and 20 lbs heavier. Not sure how that equates to being more slender.

 

[vin.couve12]

McKissick is a WR that wears a RB number and isn't a guy you would ever give more than a couple carries to. I also think he's a twitchier athlete than Gaskin. If you want to replace McKissick with Gaskin, whatever, sure. I'm in, I guess. But I don't want to replace Mike Davis with Gaskin.

Sankey is the same height and Gaskin and 20 lbs heavier. Not sure how that equates to being more slender.

Sankey wasn't 225 coming out. He tried putting on weight after his rookie year, but I'm not a college fan that follows players into the NFL. This ain't about college. And when I say body style, I'm not talking height and weight. It's leg lenth, how high the hips set, bubble, torso, etc and it makes an enormous difference when it comes to contact balance and cutting. I'd even try and get Bobbie Williams undrafted before I'd spend 1.5 on McKissic and I don't want to spend more than that on Davis when we already have a 1 and 2.

There are a lot of backs around 200 pounds (Gaskin is 205) that run 4.5s and 4.4s and that means not a lot for most. The ones that have vision and contact balance....that's where the difference is.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Gaskin is a lot tougher than many give him credit for. He's a versatile back, but he's VERY good at moving the chains. I couldn't care less about speed if the guy has patience and has good game speed and can move those chains. You don't need to be a burner to be a solid NFL contributor. Hopefully he pans out wherever he goes. Even if it's more as a back up RB who plays special teams. He's not afraid to put his down and mix it up.

 

[vin.couve12]

A lot can change between now, the draft, and TC and what not.

This tim last year, a lot of people were putting Ronald Jones II from USC as the next awesome speedster back that was supposed to be #2 back on the board after Barkley. He could barely get a carry as a rookie and rightfully so. No vision and no contact balance.

 

[chris98251]

Emmitt Smith ran 4.56 guess he sucked also, RB's are not just about speed, 4.56 is plenty fast if they have good vision and lateral quickness and some power or any of the three.


You guys and you absolute's with stats are going to ruin everything when people start really believing this shit.

 

[Uncle Si]

Emmitt Smith ran 4.56 guess he sucked also, RB's are not just about speed, 4.56 is plenty fast if they have good vision and lateral quickness and some power or any of the three.


You guys and you absolute's with stats are going to ruin everything when people start really believing this shit.

Emmitt Smith was 5'9" 210 pounds. Also very important stats that play a part in the discussion.

people on here are just discussing where the kid might land. no one thinks they have an ear to an NFL exec

 

[Tical21]

McKissick is a WR that wears a RB number and isn't a guy you would ever give more than a couple carries to. I also think he's a twitchier athlete than Gaskin. If you want to replace McKissick with Gaskin, whatever, sure. I'm in, I guess. But I don't want to replace Mike Davis with Gaskin.

Sankey is the same height and Gaskin and 20 lbs heavier. Not sure how that equates to being more slender.

Sankey wasn't 225 coming out. He tried putting on weight after his rookie year, but I'm not a college fan that follows players into the NFL. This ain't about college. And when I say body style, I'm not talking height and weight. It's leg lenth, how high the hips set, bubble, torso, etc and it makes an enormous difference when it comes to contact balance and cutting. I'd even try and get Bobbie Williams undrafted before I'd spend 1.5 on McKissic and I don't want to spend more than that on Davis when we already have a 1 and 2.

There are a lot of backs around 200 pounds (Gaskin is 205) that run 4.5s and 4.4s and that means not a lot for most. The ones that have vision and contact balance....that's where the difference is.

I'd bet you Sankey and Gaskin around their sophomore year, had almost identical bodies in every way. Both guys are walking around at about 170 if they weren't football players.

We already have 2, but I think because both have been unable to stay on the field consistently, and because we want badly to be the best running team in the league, we need 3. Davis' 4 YPC style keeps the chains moving for us if we need. He closed for Carson to win a game and can start for you if needed. I think he's good for a game, and we would regret it if we let him go.

 

[Tical21]

Gaskin bulked up for the combine, and probably runs closer to 4.5 flat if he hadn't. I can count on one hand in my life, guys who have been truly successful with his athletic profile. For every one successful, there's at least 99 that fit that profile that couldn't cut it in the league. I'm not talking in absolutes or making predictions, but the odds are insanely stacked against him.

For the same reason, I had zero doubt that Ronald Jones also would be a terrible draft pick. If you're going to be that small, you need to be really fast. Jamaal Charles, Philip Lindsay. Those are the guys that make it. Once Ronald Jones didn't run sub 4.4, he turned into a 6th rounder to me.

Naming any successful RB at 205 or under is difficult to do. Naming any that didn't run like sub 4.42 is almost impossible. You've got James White. You've got Justin Forsett You've kind of got Jacquizz Rodgers. JD McKissick is about the next best that I can remember. Literally everyone else just didn't have the athletic profile to play in the NFL.