Rigged for us (and GB)

[Welshers]

Don't forget the refs. Look, it has been said up and down this forum that we can't blame the refs and we played terrible and would have lost no matter what. This may be true. The team is playing horrible. But criminal activity should still be called out.

The Seahawks playing bad doesn't mean the refs should be allowed to let slide. We can admit that they didn't decide the games outcome while still holding them accountable. Let's look at the horrific performance yesterday:

CRIMINAL CALLS:

1. On Seattle's first drive they gave Seattle a first down, then took it back to 4th and inches without a review. Was the first time I've ever seen anything like it in decades of watching the NFL. It certainly looked like Russ had the 1st down as well.

2. Rogers fumbled at mid field and it was clearly recovered by Seattle. They gave it to the Packers and held it up on review. CRIMINAL.

3. A completely phantom holding call that takes us out of field goal range to end the 1st half. Like a literally made up call.

4. An interception in the end zone that was clearly dropped. They originally called it incomplete, then changed it to a pick on the field then held it up on replay. Sickening.

Those 4 calls alone could all have potentially cost the Seahawks points. They certainly would not have been shut out without the rigged officiating. While they do have themselves to blame for horrible play, it was not a fair playing field.

The game was steered in the direction of the legacy team. It was more obvious than anything I have ever seen. It was sickening. This product is becoming horrible. More like WWE each and every day. For the first time in years I turned off the game early yesterday. Yes, I turned the game off when we were down 3-0, before it was even over. I turned it off because the officiating did not deserve my viewing.

OTHER QUESTIONABLE CALLS:

1. Holding against GB on almost every play, uncalled.
2. A unnecessary roughness block in the back, uncalled.
3. They give GB a very questionable 1st down on 3rd in the 3rd quarter without a second thought, yet call back an obvious first for Seattle.

This game was RIGGED. It has never been more obvious. I urge you all to stop giving the NFL your money. I know I'm done.

-


What the NFL is doing is illegal. There are gamblers who have lots of real money on these games. The NFL is stealing from them. Hold these people accountable. FEDERAL INVESTIGATION!!!

 

[AgentDib]

I don't think the game was rigged but I do agree that the calls were terrible. I also wouldn't be too quick to say they had no difference on the outcome in a sport where momentum matters and we were trailing by three points late despite calls going against us.

One systematic error that refs make is to favor the home team. There have been several different studies that show home field advantage is at least 50% comprised of this factor alone. Remote judges mitigate this and having an eye in the sky that can overturn calls on the field quickly when broadcast footage contradicts them is a necessary step forwards in my view.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Referees have been terrible all year.

Ask Bears or Lions fans.

I do think that the rise of LEGAL sports gambling has something to do with it though.

The giant sums of $$$ the gaming companies pay the NFL in advertising likely don't help either.

 

[LTH]

Don't forget the refs. Look, it has been said up and down this forum that we can't blame the refs and we played terrible and would have lost no matter what. This may be true. The team is playing horrible. But criminal activity should still be called out.

The Seahawks playing bad doesn't mean the refs should be allowed to let slide. We can admit that they didn't decide the games outcome while still holding them accountable. Let's look at the horrific performance yesterday:

CRIMINAL CALLS:

1. On Seattle's first drive they gave Seattle a first down, then took it back to 4th and inches without a review. Was the first time I've ever seen anything like it in decades of watching the NFL. It certainly looked like Russ had the 1st down as well.

2. Rogers fumbled at mid field and it was clearly recovered by Seattle. They gave it to the Packers and held it up on review. CRIMINAL.

3. A completely phantom holding call that takes us out of field goal range to end the 1st half. Like a literally made up call.

4. An interception in the end zone that was clearly dropped. They originally called it incomplete, then changed it to a pick on the field then held it up on replay. Sickening.

Those 4 calls alone could all have potentially cost the Seahawks points. They certainly would not have been shut out without the rigged officiating. While they do have themselves to blame for horrible play, it was not a fair playing field.

The game was steered in the direction of the legacy team. It was more obvious than anything I have ever seen. It was sickening. This product is becoming horrible. More like WWE each and every day. For the first time in years I turned off the game early yesterday. Yes, I turned the game off when we were down 3-0, before it was even over. I turned it off because the officiating did not deserve my viewing.

OTHER QUESTIONABLE CALLS:

1. Holding against GB on almost every play, uncalled.
2. A unnecessary roughness block in the back, uncalled.
3. They give GB a very questionable 1st down on 3rd in the 3rd quarter without a second thought, yet call back an obvious first for Seattle.

This game was RIGGED. It has never been more obvious. I urge you all to stop giving the NFL your money. I know I'm done.

-


What the NFL is doing is illegal. There are gamblers who have lots of real money on these games. The NFL is stealing from them. Hold these people accountable. FEDERAL INVESTIGATION!!!

I agree totally all of it except that I thought it did affect the out come of the game...

this thing about getting the NFL to make the call in NY or where ever they make it is total BS


It was so bad my wife even was frustrated beyond belief...


I think the way to handle this is for us to email the media and try to get them to write story's about this....It's getting really bad!!! to the point where I don't want to watch football anymore... its just not with the Hawks either its wide spread..


LTH

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Same question I always ask the conspiracy theorists like Welshers...............if you think the league is rigged, why do you watch and invest your time, energy and emotions in a team and sport that you're convinced is fixxed?

Seems like a colossal waste of your time.

 

[Welshers]

Same question I always ask the conspiracy theorists like Welshers...............if you think the league is rigged, why do you watch and invest your time, energy and emotions in a team and sport that you're convinced is fixxed?

Seems like a colossal waste of your time.

I think I'm done with it as I said. Even if it wasn't rigged the bad officiating ruined the product. Made two turn overs go the other way. Might just read the box score from here on out. That wasn't a fair game

 

[LTH]

Same question I always ask the conspiracy theorists like Welshers...............if you think the league is rigged, why do you watch and invest your time, energy and emotions in a team and sport that you're convinced is fixxed?

Seems like a colossal waste of your time.

Because i love football! BUT its becoming to the point to where I don't want to watch it...It has NOTHING to do with the Hawks not having a great year I;m enough of a fan to realize that teams cycle thats fine but the other night in Pitt the officiating was so bad I turned off the game...


I think we need to flood the media with emails complaining about it...if they start writing about it then we can stop it or at least bring attention to it

 

[kf3339]

The problem is they created too many rules in the modern game that brings the refs into the picture far too often. Eliminate at least 50-75% of the new rules from 1990 on and the game will return to a much better product on the field. The refs will not become the central focus as they are right now.

That's my take.

 

[classicaaron]

well the first one was actually the correct call, he was a yard short if you see his knees. now the giving the first down and then taking it away was extremely weird it was the right call.

the other 3 were indeed atrocious.

 

[LTH]

well the first one was actually the correct call, he was a yard short if you see his knees. now the giving the first down and then taking it away was extremely weird it was the right call.

the other 3 were indeed atrocious.

isn't it where the ball is? the ball was over the first down line before his knee hit?


LTH

 

[Sports Hernia]

The problem is they created too many rules in the modern game that brings the refs into the picture far too often. Eliminate at least 50-75% of the new rules from 1990 on and the game will return to a much better product on the field. The refs will not become the central focus as they are right now.

That's my take.

Yep, massively streamlining the rule book would help. ….but the NFL must like the results as they’ve done nothing to address their huge officiating problems. But that wouldnt help when our guy clearly recovers a fumble and it’s awarded to the other team, and when our O-lineman gets flat out trucked and yet is called for holding. There is something seriously wrong when you are making calls for shit that clearly didn’t happen.
I’m starting to feel indifferent, toward the NFL, as the steering is very real and almost always favor teams with big fanbases.

Ive started out the door of the NFL fandom, aware that my eventual leaving will have zero impact on anything, except for saving a little piece of my own sanity on Sundays.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Same question I always ask the conspiracy theorists like Welshers...............if you think the league is rigged, why do you watch and invest your time, energy and emotions in a team and sport that you're convinced is fixxed?

Seems like a colossal waste of your time.

Because i love football! BUT its becoming to the point to where I don't want to watch it...It has NOTHING to do with the Hawks not having a great year I;m enough of a fan to realize that teams cycle thats fine but the other night in Pitt the officiating was so bad I turned off the game...


I think we need to flood the media with emails complaining about it...if they start writing about it then we can stop it or at least bring attention to it

I agree that officiating is terrible. But it's pretty big tin foil hat leap of faith to say it's not only bad, but the NFL actually rigs games.

Why on earth would the league risk their multi billion dollar empire by instructing their referees to steer games for certain teams?

Seems like a REALLY bad business model.

But my point remains, if you're a "the league is rigged" conspiracy theorist, not sure why you invest your time and energy into a sport you think has predetermined outcomes............and ALWAYS against your team? Weird how that always works with every fanbase who has fans who say the same thing.

Crazy!

 

[sutz]

Sorry, but I think the two interceptions in the endzone following our only decent drives of the game had more to do with it than a few bad calls. Not to mention the stupid penalties on Dunlap for throwing the shoe, giving up a down and precious field position at a critical time and DK's stupid loss of poise at the end. Losing DK at that time probably didn't change much, but the Dunlap penalty led to a GB TD.

Blaming the refs is a lame excuse in this instance IMHO.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Same question I always ask the conspiracy theorists like Welshers...............if you think the league is rigged, why do you watch and invest your time, energy and emotions in a team and sport that you're convinced is fixxed?

Seems like a colossal waste of your time.

Because i love football! BUT its becoming to the point to where I don't want to watch it...It has NOTHING to do with the Hawks not having a great year I;m enough of a fan to realize that teams cycle thats fine but the other night in Pitt the officiating was so bad I turned off the game...


I think we need to flood the media with emails complaining about it...if they start writing about it then we can stop it or at least bring attention to it

I agree that officiating is terrible. But it's pretty big tin foil hat leap of faith to say it's not only bad, but the NFL actually rigs games.

Why on earth would the league risk their multi billion dollar empire by instructing their referees to steer games for certain teams?

Seems like a REALLY bad business model.

But my point remains, if you're a "the league is rigged" conspiracy theorist, not sure why you invest your time and energy into a sport you think has predetermined outcomes............and ALWAYS against your team? Weird how that always works with every fanbase who has fans who say the same thing.

Crazy!

Honest question. What are the consequences if the NFL does rig and steer games?
I don’t see any. A majority of fans will still watch their teams and a majority of gamblers will still bet on games.
People still watch WWE and it’s results are fake/predetermined.

And I know you don’t know why, but why hasn’t the NFL done “anything” to address their piss poor officiating? They’ve had decades to fix the issue and have nothing but complicate it by adding MORE a rules to the rulebook.
The only answer I can come up with is they like the results. I don’t think it’s a bug, but a feature.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Honest question. What are the consequences if the NFL does rig and steer games?
I don’t see any. A majority of fans will still watch their teams and a majority of gamblers will still bet on games.
People still watch WWE and it’s results are fake/predetermined.

But no one bets on the WWE, and that's why the NFL is the richest league in the world save for the English Premier League. Without gambling the NFL is probably worth 25% of what it's worth now. It's why 80% of the fans watch all the games, book trips to Vegas to sit in sports books, play fantasy football and pay for things like the Red Zone...........gambling.

No way in hell the owners and league officials risk their sport being exposed as rigged and they all lose their asses. Not to mention the lawsuits that'd come out of Vegas.

It's not rigged. Fans project bad calls as rigged because they don't have the emotional capacity to process subjective human error in the proper way, which is random chance.

And I know you don’t know why, but why hasn’t the NFL done “anything” to address their piss poor officiating? They’ve had decades to fix the issue and have nothing but complicate it by adding MORE a rules to the rulebook.
The only answer I can come up with is they like the results. I don’t think it’s a bug, but a feature.

Some others have already touched on why it's so bad, too many rules, and more importantly too many new subjective rules introduced over the past decade that 60 year old men are suppose to interpret, implement and make snap calls on in real time.

Impossible. Strip away all the stupid new subjective calls like taunting, catch rules, celebration penalties, roughing the passer, etc, and that'd do away with a LOT of bad calls.

 

[Welshers]

Sorry, but I think the two interceptions in the endzone following our only decent drives of the game had more to do with it than a few bad calls. Not to mention the stupid penalties on Dunlap for throwing the shoe, giving up a down and precious field position at a critical time and DK's stupid loss of poise at the end. Losing DK at that time probably didn't change much, but the Dunlap penalty led to a GB TD.

Blaming the refs is a lame excuse in this instance IMHO.

Except one of those interceptions was clearly, clearly not an interception. And somehow they gave it to them

 

[Welshers]

Honest question. What are the consequences if the NFL does rig and steer games?
I don’t see any. A majority of fans will still watch their teams and a majority of gamblers will still bet on games.
People still watch WWE and it’s results are fake/predetermined.

But no one bets on the WWE, and that's why the NFL is the richest league in the world save for the English Premier League. Without gambling the NFL is probably worth 25% of what it's worth now. It's why 80% of the fans watch all the games, book trips to Vegas to sit in sports books, play fantasy football and pay for things like the Red Zone...........gambling.

No way in hell the owners and league officials risk their sport being exposed as rigged and they all lose their asses. Not to mention the lawsuits that'd come out of Vegas.

It's not rigged. Fans project bad calls as rigged because they don't have the emotional capacity to process subjective human error in the proper way, which is random chance.

And I know you don’t know why, but why hasn’t the NFL done “anything” to address their piss poor officiating? They’ve had decades to fix the issue and have nothing but complicate it by adding MORE a rules to the rulebook.
The only answer I can come up with is they like the results. I don’t think it’s a bug, but a feature.

Some others have already touched on why it's so bad, too many rules, and more importantly too many new subjective rules introduced over the past decade that 60 year old men are suppose to interpret, implement and make snap calls on in real time.

Impossible. Strip away all the stupid new subjective calls like taunting, catch rules, celebration penalties, roughing the passer, etc, and that'd do away with a LOT of bad calls.

Listen you make some great points. Let's pretend it's not rigged (I still believe it is, but I'm not 100% sure).

Why do they chose to make their product such shit? You literally listed things that EVERYONE wants changed. EVERYONE. So why won't the owners and league accept that and change those things? Very strange. They are damaging their product badly

 

[Bigpumpkin]

Same question I always ask the conspiracy theorists like Welshers...............if you think the league is rigged, why do you watch and invest your time, energy and emotions in a team and sport that you're convinced is fixxed?

Seems like a colossal waste of your time.

The same could be said of the Christians in the Roman Coliseum. The outcome was not in doubt......and yet to some, it was entertaining.

 

[Torc]

The call on the fumble was the right one - the offensive and defensive players both grabbed it at the same time, and the offense gets a simultaneous recovery. (Don't get me started on the simultaneous catch of the "Fail Mary" that they insist on continuing to show. It was the right call despite years of showing it to us again and again...).

On the first down, it was really close. I wish they'd reviewed it....but when they showed the replay once it was hard to tell whether his knee was down before he crossed the first down line. They only showed one angle if I remember correctly.

The holding call where our lineman (I forget who it was) got run over and then called for holding when his hands were nowhere near the defensive lineman, that was pretty ridiculous and probably the only call that I'd label truly awful. The dropped interception was close to awful though, especially because that WAS reviewed. The ball was clearly coming out before he hit the ground; I think if they'd kept the initial incomplete call (the ref right on the spot called it an incomplete at first) they wouldn't have overturned it. I didn't see anyone on the field signaling that it was an INT in the broadcast but it sounds like that's what happened.

I don't think it's rigged, but certainly refs are human and have their own biases. Some are better than others at maintaining their professionalism. The coaches are trying to influence them all game long, and I have no doubt that certain players get the benefit of the doubt (TJ Watt blowing a kiss to the Bears sidelines in the Steelers/Bears game and getting no taunting call, while practice squad callup Cassius Marsh got a call for putting his hands on his hips and looking at the Steelers sideline is a good example).

 

[Tusc2000]

Ask any team in the NFC North, you have to win by 2 TDs in Green Bay to come away with a 3 point victory. The NFL refs have been garbage, they're Packer homers that get influenced by the crowd, and yesterday they played a huge role.

Pete laid out a similar case...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/326 ... ay-packers