Replacing Tate, Bryant and McDonald

[MizzouHawkGal]

I'm most worried about losing Giacomini. We could be awful thin on the line and should Okung's or Unger's injuries flair up again Russell would be in big time peril.

Bailey and Bowie have it covered.

 

[Jville]

Bailey and Bowie have a lot of work in front of them.

 

[Blitzer88]

I still believe that losing Tate will hurt us a bit.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I wouldn't worry about Tate... he was non-existant in the Play-Offs where we saw Baldwin and Kearse be productive. If Baldwin and Kearse are likely to improve, all you need is Harvin and Rice to distract the best coverage defender...

Harvin is also a better play-maker, and having what should be a Harvin/Baldwin kick return unit will cancel out what we lost in Tate has a punt returner.

The question remains is if the Seahawks can find a better punt returner than what we had in Kearse/Turbin for kick-offs. If you get what I mean... I think the Seahawks will.

So... losing Tate isn't really all that much of an issue.

 

[Skottt]

I think losing Tate will hurt us more on punt returns than as a WR. The field position game is important, and Tate had some clutch returns last season.

 

[RiverDog]

It's been awhile, been following the board here and there but not much free time these days.

I've been re-watching the 2013 season piece by piece, and I think one of the biggest questions this team will have to answer this season is who steps up to replace Golden Tate, Red Bryant and Clinton McDonald.

Tate, while obviously marginalized by good CBs far too often, made TONS of huge plays for us, not just in the passing game but as a punt returner. His shiftiness and low center of gravity made him very really hard to tackle. Who steps up to fill his role as a receiver and probably more importantly, a returner, will be very important.

I do like entering the season with Rice, Harvin, Baldwin and Kearse as the four primary targets at WR plus I'm excited about the possibility of Chris Matthews and I expect we will draft a big body WR as well. Ricardo Lockette is getting better and better, and perhaps Phil Bates will finally emerge.

But Tate was almost a guarantee for several big plays every game. I've lost track of the great catches, runs after the catch and returns he had.

Bryant, while he has never racked up the stats, was a HUGE (literally) component in our run defense. I am not sure who they plan on replacing him with (Scruggs? McDaniel? Draft pick?), but we need someone who can anchor and absorb bodies. Being able to concentrate on the individual plays when re-watching games has shown me how important Bryant really was.

McDonald...wow, underrated. He was very disruptive at the point of attack, and he had a knack for making plays (sacks, fumble recoveries, even a pick vs Minnesota). I am guessing they are hoping that Jordan Hill becomes that kind of player.

I'm more concerned with replacing these three than I am with Browner, Clemons, Thurmond, Giacomini, Robinson and McQuistan.

I'm not worried about the defense. That unit seems to heal itself, organically compensates for the loss of a part. You cut off your arm, it grows a new one back in its place. I'm not the least bit worried about Bryant or McDonald.

As far as Tate goes, if Harvin steps up and plays a full season at the pace we saw in the SB, we'll forget about Tate by about Week 2. Harvin can do everything Tate did times 2. But that's a big 'if', and I'm looking forward to see who we pick up in the draft.

One part of Tate's game that we will miss that Harvin won't fill is his punt returns. He pulled our bacon out of the fire a couple of times last season, particularly against Tampa Bay. He was as sure handed as they come, although you wouldn't have known it during that onsides kick vs. the Saints in the playoffs. I really don't know who we're going to get that has both Tate's elusiveness as well as his sure hands.

I do worry about the OL. Okung is always hurt, neither him or Unger played like the Pro Bowlers they are even when they were healthy, Carpenter is a bust, and I wasn't at all impressed with Bowie or Bailie. We let two of our starters on the OL go without a viable plan for their replacement except to assume that Bowie and Bailie will take a huge step up in their development and/or pin our hopes on that crap shoot of a draft. That's what concerns me the most.

 

[Largent80]

Tate : Harvin + mores snaps for Kearse + maybe Rice

PR: who knows at this point but Seahawks have Lockette who did it in college and Christine Michael who possibly can step-up in the role to get field time. Both have elite athleticism. Plus this draft is literally filled with Golden Tates that will fall because of bigger WRs.

Bryant: a rotation of McDaniel, Bennett, and Scruggs

McDaniel: a rotation of Scruggs, Williams, and McDaniel

McDonald: Hill and Brooks, both have strong pass-rush potential while McDonald was one of my favorite players let's not act like he's been a gem... it was Quinn and the supporting D-Line cast and the mixture of talent McDonald faced that allowed him to put in a career year.

Clemons: Cliff Avril

Avril: Bruce Irvin

Browner: Byron Maxwell

Thurmond: Jeremy Lane

Giacomini: Bowie, Bailey vs Draft Pick or Two

I really don't see the Seahawks losing a beat defensively or offensively... they lost some good leaders but mostly role players and the the Seahawks have the talent for their depth to step up and produce.

I agree with P.H. on this. Also the fact the draft is deep @ WR. Since it is so deep, we may be able to trade back and pick up some middle round picks that we could add depth with.

 

[v1rotv2]

I think the answer for Tate is Kearse. Kearse in my opinion will excel this season. He is much further ahead in his game than Tate was at this time of his career. Plus I think Kearse can do more things in a smarter way. During the Super Bowl Tate had a 1st down but gave it up trying for more yards when at that time in the game 1st downs was the goal to keep the clock going. RW had to tell him to get the 1st downs. Not the smartest of players.

Bryant I think will be starting a downward performance trend. He is a big man and this will be his 8th season so I think we have seen his peak.

I just don't know about McDonald but with JS/PC letting him go already have the answer, whatever that is.

 

[ImTheScientist]

As far as Tate goes, if Harvin steps up and plays a full season at the pace we saw in the SB, we'll forget about Tate by about Week 2. Harvin can do everything Tate did times 2. But that's a big 'if', and I'm looking forward to see who we pick up in the draft.

This completely contradicts what you said about harvin last year.

What has changed to cause you to come around now? :2:

 

[ManBunts]

I think, as many have said, we already have the bodies on the roster to cover those guys. Tate is covered by a mix of Harvin and Baldwin. Kearse has shown extraordinary growth. Rice coming back is all icing to me. His injuries make him too inconsistent, but when he's out there he has great hands. I don't want to sound dismissive of Tate, but I think with a full time Harvin, and the connections Russell has with Baldwin and Kearse, Tate would've seen a reduction in use anyway. Definitely going to miss his return game, but we can cover that.

As for our lines, we've got a bushel of talent waiting in the wings. Williams, Scruggs and Hill are, yes, coming off injuries, but I've got high hopes for those three. When you look at what Bowie and Bailey did last year being asked to fill in, I think they did a great job, and have no problem with them covering for Breno. I'd still like another big guy in the draft though. Or at least a bionic toe for Okung.

All that said, what we WILL miss, and what will fall on the other guys to take up, are the leadership roles that guys like Red and Clemons had. People seem to have an impression that we're a team of young misfits, but as I understand it the level of respect and leadership taken on by certain guys in the team is unparalleled. That's something that needs to be kept alive

 

[RiverDog]

As far as Tate goes, if Harvin steps up and plays a full season at the pace we saw in the SB, we'll forget about Tate by about Week 2. Harvin can do everything Tate did times 2. But that's a big 'if', and I'm looking forward to see who we pick up in the draft.

This completely contradicts what you said about harvin last year.

What has changed to cause you to come around now? :2:

How does that contradict what I said about Harvin? I didn't like the trade, and still don't. But when healthy and motivated..the big "if" in my statement, he's as good as they come. I see nothing contradictory in that statement vs. anything I said about him last season.

 

[Throwdown]

I really honestly don't think we lost much, but that's just me. None of the guys listed are THAT special IMO.

 

[Scottemojo]

I really honestly don't think we lost much, but that's just me. None of the guys listed are THAT special IMO.

I thought Clemons and Bryant were special as team leaders.

 

[Throwdown]

People thought that about Tatupu & Hasselbeck when they got sent on the first thing smoking. I think we're fine when it comes to leadership.

But I will say that Bryant's leadership could rival Ray Lewis' (totally biased opinion btw).

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I think losing Tate will hurt us more on punt returns than as a WR. The field position game is important, and Tate had some clutch returns last season.

Again, I don't think it will be that bad. Just think of it this way...

A Harvin/Baldwin Kick Return team should be +/= Tate's Punt Returning production... Harvin in particular will likely score once or twice.

I know I'm comparing to different things but remember last season our Kick Return game was horrendous for the most part and at times negative where two fumbles lead to two scores.

So, I think with Harvin/Baldwin set has the Kick Returners and they could theorhetically replace the general production Tate provided, the question remains is if the Seahawks...

Can find a better punt returner than Kease and Turbin were Kick Returners...which is very plausible... a lot of the best PRs in the NFL are no-name WR/RBs/DBs and overall in the bigger picture of the "Return Game" you're looking at it possibly being improved.

I also feel like (if healthy) the Seahawks will put together a top 10 offense in Yards, with a top 3 offense in Scoring this year...and that'll deflate the needing the Punt Return production to pick up some of the offensive slack this year.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

As far as Tate goes, if Harvin steps up and plays a full season at the pace we saw in the SB, we'll forget about Tate by about Week 2. Harvin can do everything Tate did times 2. But that's a big 'if', and I'm looking forward to see who we pick up in the draft.

This completely contradicts what you said about harvin last year.

What has changed to cause you to come around now? :2:

How does that contradict what I said about Harvin? I didn't like the trade, and still don't. But when healthy and motivated..the big "if" in my statement, he's as good as they come. I see nothing contradictory in that statement vs. anything I said about him last season.

Motivation has never been an issue. Also I just don't get this unfounded reputation as injury prone. He had migranes which have been a non issue for years he then sprains an ankle that because of team politics he gets IR'd and then he gets major hip surgery and STILL is able to be full speed within 6 months where it wouldn't be shocking to be out a year and never be the same.

 

[RiverDog]

Motivation has never been an issue. Also I just don't get this unfounded reputation as injury prone. He had migranes which have been a non issue for years he then sprains an ankle that because of team politics he gets IR'd and then he gets major hip surgery and STILL is able to be full speed within 6 months where it wouldn't be shocking to be out a year and never be the same.

Motivation was most definitely an issue at the end of the 2013 regular season. Pete nearly put him on IR until Harvin miraculously healed himself, then proceeded to play balls to the wall as if he'd never been hurt. It's still a mystery that has never been fully explained.

The injury prone rap has been around since his college days, and was a concern when he was drafted, not to mention that he's missed 24 of his past 25 regular season games due to injuries, injuries that can't be attributed to the migraines (ankle, hip).

 

[Hawks46]

Motivation has never been an issue. Also I just don't get this unfounded reputation as injury prone. He had migranes which have been a non issue for years he then sprains an ankle that because of team politics he gets IR'd and then he gets major hip surgery and STILL is able to be full speed within 6 months where it wouldn't be shocking to be out a year and never be the same.

Motivation was most definitely an issue at the end of the 2013 regular season. Pete nearly put him on IR until Harvin miraculously healed himself, then proceeded to play balls to the wall as if he'd never been hurt. It's still a mystery that has never been fully explained.

The injury prone rap has been around since his college days, and was a concern when he was drafted, not to mention that he's missed 24 of his past 25 regular season games due to injuries, injuries that can't be attributed to the migraines (ankle, hip).

This is a ridiculously assumptive statement. It's also no "mystery" at all. Harvin underwent hip surgery this year, it was a preexisting condition that the FO knew about. Everyone knew about it, as it was uncovered during Harvin's combine physical. It goes to show you how the FO covers all their bases; they probably knew Harvin might miss some time, but we have an extremely deep team and got by without him. They took extra care with him and let him have all the time he needed to get right, basically for the playoff run, the playoffs and SB. Everyone pretty much knew we didn't need him about halfway through the year. Then they brought Harvin back, and he was still getting used to his new range of motion. Thus he came back, then went back to inactive, then flew out to NY to have it rechecked for injury. No where in there is any lack of motivation. Harvin is one of the most competitive guys out there: it's why he hasn't always gotten along with coaches.

As for Tate, we're going to miss him on Punt returns, and we'll miss his unique skill set, but his production can be replaced easily. Thing is, when he did show up, we usually needed it badely (see 1st Rams game). We're really going to miss his durability, especially if Harvin gets hurt again. I love one of the above comments about how Kearse is farther along in his career than Tate was at this point. I think Kearse replaces Tate's outside prescence: he can win jump balls, gets better separation, and runs better routes. His hands might not be as good as Tate's, but I really don't think we've seen his ceiling.

I concur with others. If we couldn't replace McDonald and Bryant, we'd have tried to keep them at a cheaper rate. I think they like one of Scruggs, Brooks, Hill or Williams to step up this year, and they still have a draft. McDaniel is back and he played well last year, and Bennett is every bit as good as Bryant was for setting that edge against the run, plus Bennett offers more versatility if a team audibles to a pass (which also makes us tougher to play against. Teams last year would audible to a pass when they saw Bryant on that edge)

Seriously, the only real hole we have is RT at this point. I can't remember if it was Bailey or Bowie that played for Breno when he was out, but he got some experience and it stands to reason he will improve, but there's no way to tell if he could beat out a 1st or 2nd round draft pick at this point. Okung's durabilty worries me, so I see us drafting a guy high, and whoever ends up the best will end up sliding over when Okung gets hurt again.

 

[RiverDog]

This is a ridiculously assumptive statement. It's also no "mystery" at all. Harvin underwent hip surgery this year, it was a preexisting condition that the FO knew about. Everyone knew about it, as it was uncovered during Harvin's combine physical.

The ridiculously assumptive statement was that you assumed I was referring to the original hip injury. It was his rehab from surgery on his hip that was mysterious. He plays great on his initial return, suffers no apparent injury until after the game he experiences what was at first characterized as just stiffness, spends an additional 6 weeks off, Pete is on the verge of putting him on IR and makes a statement that indicates it isn't a physical problem, then in a matter of hours, Harvin is back on the practice field and is playing balls to the wall fantastic. That was as strange of a sequence as I've ever seen with an injured player.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Against the Vikes, they took Harvin out after his 58 yard return because he experienced "stiffness" they also showed sideline shots of trainers stretching him out... he came back after 4 months ... it was too early but he wanted a chance to go against his former team.