Re: KJ Wright Signs 4 year extension UPDATED WITH BREAKDOWN

kearly

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mikeak":i7f3bb5d said:
I tried to get through all 6 pages but might have missed someone making the point.

People are discussing the value based on 4 years - $27 million and to me that is not how you look at it.

He is playing next year for $1.5 million. He would not play for that. He would have sat out. So I move the $1.5 million to the 27 million and now I have a $28.5 million contract for 5 years.

That is $5.7million per year.

Yes you can get into the whole - if it is backloaded that may not pay out etc as well. Point being - look at it as a five year deal counting next year.

I struggle to imagine Wright holding out. And even if he did, we have some very recent history on this matter involving a much more prominent player. The Hawks FO didn't lose sleep over Lynch, they wouldn't fret Wright. Also, if you want a big extension from Pete, I think the very worst thing you could do is hold out. When Clemons did it, it only bought him one extra year. When Baldwin sort of did it, it bought him two extra years. When Lynch did it, he got next to nothing. The players who 'protected the team' by avoiding holdouts consistently got much bigger deals.

Generally speaking, it annoys me when people disregard the final cheap year of a contract. It is an asset that belongs to the Hawks. It does not disappear when they sign players to extensions. Yes, the average cap hit lessens, but that is only because Seattle worked a deal that split that final rookie year advantage over five seasons instead of one. With the new rolling cap this isn't really the advantage it used to be, and if Wright is here for the full contract it will be exactly the same as if we signed him to a 4/27 deal after his rookie year expires.

(Edit: KJ was a 2015 FA)
 

Scottemojo

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RunTheBall":shfemxlj said:
Scottemojo":shfemxlj said:
Now I think Avril walks, because that is a lot of cash to lock up in the defense without getting lopsided.
LOL
Did you really laugh out loud? At least a little guffaw?

I was wrong, and in record time.
 

endzorn

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kearly":2ce54f2p said:
mikeak":2ce54f2p said:
I tried to get through all 6 pages but might have missed someone making the point.

People are discussing the value based on 4 years - $27 million and to me that is not how you look at it.

He is playing next year for $1.5 million. He would not play for that. He would have sat out. So I move the $1.5 million to the 27 million and now I have a $28.5 million contract for 5 years.

That is $5.7million per year.

Yes you can get into the whole - if it is backloaded that may not pay out etc as well. Point being - look at it as a five year deal counting next year.

I struggle to imagine Wright holding out. And even if he did, we have some very recent history on this matter involving a much more prominent player. The Hawks FO didn't lose sleep over Lynch, they wouldn't fret Wright. Also, if you want a big extension from Pete, I think the very worst thing you could do is hold out. When Clemons did it, it only bought him one extra year. When Baldwin sort of did it, it bought him two extra years. When Lynch did it, he got next to nothing. The players who 'protected the team' by avoiding holdouts consistently got much bigger deals.

Generally speaking, it annoys me when people disregard the final cheap year of a contract. It is an asset that belongs to the Hawks. It does not disappear when they sign players to extensions. Yes, the average cap hit lessens, but that is only because Seattle worked a deal that split that final rookie year advantage over five seasons instead of one. With the new rolling cap this isn't really the advantage it used to be, and if Wright is here for the full contract it will be exactly the same as if we signed him to a 4/27 deal after his rookie year expires.
I looked at spotrac.com and it says this year is the last year of his first deal and next year is the first of his next. There is no $1.5m salary next season for a total of 5/28.5. This deal is every bit the 4/27 it appears to be.
 

Scottemojo

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KJ was a free agent after this season.

No contract next year. Until, of course, this one.
 

kearly

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Derp. Thanks.

For as much as people are bashing "the fact checkers" around here (in some cases rightfully so), I would have just avoided a mistake if I had played that role myself.
 

DavidSeven

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No point fretting over the numbers until the real numbers are actually confirmed. These things tend to inflated quite a bit initially. Performance incentives and big non-guaranteed years generally get factored into the initial numbers but are often not worth considering for cap purposes.

I remember last year people were crowning Kaepernick's agent after his numbers were initially reported. The actual guarantees/structure revealed that he got bent over by Baalke and York (though maybe not now that he has regressed).
 

Hasselbeck

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HansGruber":t8ojry5f said:
I'll be excited about the signing because Pete Carroll is excited about it. Pete Carroll has won multiple championships at multiple levels of the sport. He will be in the Hall of Fame. People will talk about his greatness 50 years after his death. You are a random nobody on the internet. I'll stick with the people who get paid for their expertise, and that doesn't include anyone on this forum.

This is so ironic, considering Hans was the champion of the Percy Harvin hate-machine in 2013 :lol:

I mean .. yeah.. I guess ultimately you wound up being correct.. but you weren't all gung-ho, 100% team Pete with that one. But whatever. Everyone just riding one tall ass horse in this thread. :lol:
 

Hasselbeck

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Largent80":oq4pp9fw said:
Whatever. My eyes see what they see. We all will hopefully see him continue his RECENT play, and not the first half of the season play.

You mean when he was playing out of position for most of the year?

And citing the Charger game is foolish. The whole defense stunk. For a whole myriad of reasons.
 

olyfan63

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Scottemojo":1qdtcaen said:
Not only possible, I'd say it's pretty obvious now.
My thought is that KJ is not only a solid player, despite lacking the speed we see from all the other LBs that come through Seattle, he might be one of those that lives Pete's All In mantra to the extent that he teaches new draftees. An extension of Pete and Norton. Which would explain his ID as a core guy despite playing a fairly easily replaced position.

Scotte "quietly" nailed the essence of the KJ deal, and the big WHY, several pages ago. I confess that several years ago, when Kamtrack got his big (at the time) deal, my (uninformed) reaction was "huh? Kam? Is he really that good?" A couple years later, the Kam signing is now a huge bargain as he consistently outperforms his deal. But, back to the real reason...

Who gets the deals? The team-first "player-coaches". In Pete's world, it's not enough to just play lights out. Not that it hurts. You must TEACH and MODEL and MENTOR the way to approach the game, the way to prepare, for the incoming draft picks, UDFAs, and free agent signings. That's exactly what Kam, Earl, Sherm, Bennett, and now we've learned, KJ, do. Pete is all about "Win Forever" and that means building the strength and self-renewal into the organization itself. Bill Walsh was a primary mentor here. Plus John Wooden, who Pete studies and admires greatly, who had one of the great self-renewing sports organizations of all time.

Now we know that in Pete's eyes, KJ isn't just a slower-running, but massively quicker-thinking and smarter version of Aaron Curry. Pete sees KJ as a terrific teacher, model, student of the game, transmitter of organizational and professional values. Those values and habits get passed on to up and comers like KPL, who I just love and is going to do some great things in a Seahawks uniform. I wouldn't be surprised if KJ has been a LB mentor to Bruce Irvin as well.

Pete and John learned massively from the Harvin fiasco, especially Pete. That one was on Pete thinking he could work yet another Father Flanagan miracle.

The KJ Wright signing is likely to just be yet another terrific bargain Pete and John have pulled off. I also have no doubt that if KJ isn't producing in year 3, he will work with the team in the same way Zach Miller did.

The entire success of Pete and John's Seahawks system is in the Moneyball aspect of players outperforming their contracts. Russell Wilson outperformed his contract by $20 million last year. KJ will EARN his contract, but his real value would appear to be helping other cheap players vastly outperform their contracts. If KJ, over the next 4 years, helps 3 other drafted/UDFA linebackers who make $1M-2M develop and play at a $5M level for 3 years each, he's a hellaciously great investment for the team.

Others have pointed out the statement that signing a guy like KJ makes in terms of taking care of your own, and the motivational effect that has on younger players, for when their turn comes. To quote Marshawn, "Yeah."
 

BASF

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Late to the party, but I wanted to throw something in here that I think is relevant to this signing and the detractors.

Pete and John have stated several times that they have a plan in regards to the salary cap and it has worked out very very well for us so far. Signing Wright to this amount of money was obviously part of the plan. If the guys who are paid exorbitant amounts of money to work our salary cap have the plan in place and it is working, why fret over it? The way the CBA is organized now, the contracts for the future are pretty well laid out for the front offices and they can plan out what they are doing far better than before the new CBA was signed. It seems that some of the detractors are looking at this signing from the old perspective.

Also, comparing him and Von Miller is a mistake, since they are used differently by their teams. The best comparisons are to younger guys who are on their first contract and only one veteran in DeAndre Levy, who is considered a serious bargain by Detroit fans. By the time some of those younger guys, especially David, get their new contracts, Wright's deal will probably look like a bargain as well.

For those who are bagging on Wright for his time at MLB, I'd like to throw some names out there (I'm sure it won't be in order): Dean Wells, Anthony Simmons, George Koonce, Orlando Huff, Levon Kirkland, Isaiah Kaczevinsky (I defy anyone to spell this correctly without looking it up), Randall Godfrey, Lofa Tatupu, David Hawthorne, KJ Wright. If it is not for Lofa, Wright is the best MLB that we had before Wagner (who is the best in the league). That is 17 years of football my friends. It seems that some have become spoiled with the play of Wagner. As an aside, does anyone even remember the guys between Young/Bosworth and Wells? I sure don't.
 

olyfan63

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RunTheBall":1bdaxr8k said:
Bprez3":1bdaxr8k said:
This extension all but solidifies that Maxwell, and Avril will not be returning next year.
People are just on fire right now

So it's settled then, you are confessing to your secret life as a Narcissist?
You are "He-who-is-without-flaw"?

(Not to be confused with the Potter character he-who-must-not-be-named)
 
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Basis4day

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http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/ ... -and-more/

Per Seattle Times Via Joel Corry (All values approximate)

Approx 26-27 Million Max Value

$5 million signing bonus and will have base salaries from 2015-18 of $3.75 million, $5.2 million, $5.8 million and $7.2 million. His contract includes $16 million guaranteed.

Cap Numbers: 2015-18 $4.75 million, $6.25, $6.8 and $8.2
 

MontanaHawk05

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HansGruber":276ussz0 said:
I'm not arguing with anyone, Pe. I'm openly laughing at the people on this forum who think they can watch a broadcast of a professional football game on TV, and think that makes them an expert on professional football scouting, coaching and management.

It is literally the equivalent of some stoner watching a heart surgery on cable TV, and then pontificating to their elderly father on why he shouldn't have that triple bypass. Never mind your cardiologist... I watch cable TV, I'm an expert!!

Simple fact - you and Scotte and everyone else on this forum doesn't have the slightest shred of knowledge about our players or how they perform, or how they will be graded by the coaching staff. Sure, you know when someone's really good (Wilson) or really bad (Whitehurst). But outside of those very extremes, you literally don't know anything. And it's hilarious listening to you guys pontificate as if you really do know what you're talking about. As if you are qualified to comment on any contract. You don't speak to the agents, you don't speak to the coaches, you don't speak to the scouts. You don't have the first clue what that player's value is, and it's hilariously pretentious to even pretend that you do. Especially when you add the passive-agressive attempts at martyrdom.

I'll be excited about the signing because Pete Carroll is excited about it. Pete Carroll has won multiple championships at multiple levels of the sport. He will be in the Hall of Fame. People will talk about his greatness 50 years after his death. You are a random nobody on the internet. I'll stick with the people who get paid for their expertise, and that doesn't include anyone on this forum.

And I will take the opinion of someone with the guts to put his opinion out there, versus someone who merely throws popcorn from the gallery.

Seriously, must you be a dick EVERY day?
 

Jville

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Basis4day":osh7fobo said:
http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/2014/12/21/seahawks-sunday-links-and-notes-details-emerge-on-contracts-for-wright-and-avril-and-more/

Per Seattle Times Via Joel Corry (All values approximate)

Approx 26-27 Million Max Value

$5 million signing bonus and will have base salaries from 2015-18 of $3.75 million, $5.2 million, $5.8 million and $7.2 million. His contract includes $16 million guaranteed.

Cap Numbers: 2015-18 $4.75 million, $6.25, $6.8 and $8.2

Thanks for posting ...... article also offered numbers on Avril.
Avril also got $16 million guaranteed on a four-year deal including a $2.5 million signing bonus. He has yearly base salaries from 2015-18 of: $7.5 million, $4.5 million. $6 million and $7 million and also has $500,000 roster bonus each of the last two seasons.
 

WendellWent

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MontanaHawk05":16j9grne said:
HansGruber":16j9grne said:
I'm not arguing with anyone, Pe. I'm openly laughing at the people on this forum who think they can watch a broadcast of a professional football game on TV, and think that makes them an expert on professional football scouting, coaching and management.

It is literally the equivalent of some stoner watching a heart surgery on cable TV, and then pontificating to their elderly father on why he shouldn't have that triple bypass. Never mind your cardiologist... I watch cable TV, I'm an expert!!

Simple fact - you and Scotte and everyone else on this forum doesn't have the slightest shred of knowledge about our players or how they perform, or how they will be graded by the coaching staff. Sure, you know when someone's really good (Wilson) or really bad (Whitehurst). But outside of those very extremes, you literally don't know anything. And it's hilarious listening to you guys pontificate as if you really do know what you're talking about. As if you are qualified to comment on any contract. You don't speak to the agents, you don't speak to the coaches, you don't speak to the scouts. You don't have the first clue what that player's value is, and it's hilariously pretentious to even pretend that you do. Especially when you add the passive-agressive attempts at martyrdom.

I'll be excited about the signing because Pete Carroll is excited about it. Pete Carroll has won multiple championships at multiple levels of the sport. He will be in the Hall of Fame. People will talk about his greatness 50 years after his death. You are a random nobody on the internet. I'll stick with the people who get paid for their expertise, and that doesn't include anyone on this forum.

And I will take the opinion of someone with the guts to put his opinion out there, versus someone who merely throws popcorn from the gallery.

Seriously, must you be a dick EVERY day?

Pretty much the same thing at this point, no?
 

sutz

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Those numbers look pretty reasonable to me. Good to have those two signed for the next couple of years.
 
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Basis4day

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Jville":353gsg3v said:
Basis4day":353gsg3v said:
http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/2014/12/21/seahawks-sunday-links-and-notes-details-emerge-on-contracts-for-wright-and-avril-and-more/

Per Seattle Times Via Joel Corry (All values approximate)

Approx 26-27 Million Max Value

$5 million signing bonus and will have base salaries from 2015-18 of $3.75 million, $5.2 million, $5.8 million and $7.2 million. His contract includes $16 million guaranteed.

Cap Numbers: 2015-18 $4.75 million, $6.25, $6.8 and $8.2

Thanks for posting ...... article also offered numbers on Avril.
Avril also got $16 million guaranteed on a four-year deal including a $2.5 million signing bonus. He has yearly base salaries from 2015-18 of: $7.5 million, $4.5 million. $6 million and $7 million and also has $500,000 roster bonus each of the last two seasons.

Yeah, i was only interested in Wright's because i started this thread and wanted to let people know when his real numbers got posted.
 

sutz

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hawksfansinceday1":2u57bd6o said:
sutz":2u57bd6o said:
Those numbers look pretty reasonable to me. Good to have those two signed for the next couple of years.
Agree with both of the things you said.
Kind of why I stayed out of the discussion for the first few pages. ;)

Somehow, JS seems to get the good deals done. Sure, he's made some bad decisions, but on the whole, he's batting in the .750-.900 range IMO.

:th2thumbs:
 

cdallan

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Basis4day":1eycdntg said:
http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/2014/12/21/seahawks-sunday-links-and-notes-details-emerge-on-contracts-for-wright-and-avril-and-more/

Per Seattle Times Via Joel Corry (All values approximate)

Approx 26-27 Million Max Value

$5 million signing bonus and will have base salaries from 2015-18 of $3.75 million, $5.2 million, $5.8 million and $7.2 million. His contract includes $16 million guaranteed.

Cap Numbers: 2015-18 $4.75 million, $6.25, $6.8 and $8.2

Cap hits of $6.5m and $7m in years 2 and 3, and nearly $8.5m in the last year. Due to the guaranteed money it seems very likely that he stays for 3 years, but more difficult to see them keeping him in year 4.
 
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