Random Thoughts on the Denver game

[Hawks46]

Pretty much in agreement. Generally though, the 2nd half didn't feel like vintage Seahawks Football. In 2012, we'd either be close or behind at half, then roar back and make an epic comeback in the 2nd half. We became known as a 2nd half football team.

This game, weere solidly in control. The Broncos had 102 total yards at halftime and 3 points. We were up by 2 TDs, yet only scored 3 points in the last 2 quarters and had to pull it out in OT.

I completely agree with Kearly about that final drive. I've bitched about the offense a bit, but I'm not complaining about the defense. THat last drive, the went right to Welker in a variety of inside rub routes and took advantage of our coverage and Burley being a bit off after Kam tried to steal his soul with that inadvertant hit. It was different from what they'd done so far in the game, and brilliant play calling.

Kind of like what we did in OT. We were content to pound Lynch up the middle all 2nd half, then come out in OT and had a QB keeper, short crossing routes and outs to Harvin, and generally just picked the Broncos apart. We didn't have that in the 3rd and 4th quarter ?

I knew we would be in trouble after the Chancellor INT, when we just ran it and played for the FG. I know that's how the coaching book says how to do it, but I felt that if Pete went for a TD after that, it was game over, but if we kicked a FG, Manning might have somethign to get that one score.

As for the offensive holding (both ways) I've said this is several different threads, but I really feel that the NFL is de-emphisizing offensive holding on the OL. I've seen way more than normal not get called this year.

I felt like Burley had a good game overall. Welker makes a lot of guys look dumb, and he held his own until the last drive, and with those different route concepts, it might not even have been his responsibility.

 

[papagallo]

Charger fan checking in. Great win against a tough opponent (Denver is much improved over last year, especially on D). For all those worried about how the 'Hawks are doing so far. Consider they baffled Aaron Rogers, lost to Phillip Rivers in 110+ degree heat (BTW, the Chargers are no joke this year), and beat arguably the greatest (top 5 for sure) QB's of ALL TIME (again, no less). It wouldn't surprise me if you guys ran the table the rest of the year. Now please stomp a mudhole in the Chiefs at week 11.

 

[exhilo]

1. Maxwell sucks
2. Turbin sucks
3. Linebackers look befuddled
4. Offense is sporadic
5. It's only week 3

 

[Bigpumpkin]

Bottom line....this team lacks focus a good portion of the game. This was a "barn burner"!

 

[hawkfan68]

I'm happy that the Seahawk defense is back. They held Manning and the potent Denver offense to 145 total yards in the first half. They kept the prolific Denver offense to 3 points for 3 quarters. I believe D. Thomas didn't have a catch until the 2nd half. They had a rough 4th quarter but Denver is a solid team. They won the game on offense in OT. Nice win.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Charger fan checking in. Great win against a tough opponent (Denver is much improved over last year, especially on D). For all those worried about how the 'Hawks are doing so far. Consider they baffled Aaron Rogers, lost to Phillip Rivers in 110+ degree heat (BTW, the Chargers are no joke this year), and beat arguably the greatest (top 5 for sure) QB's of ALL TIME (again, no less). It wouldn't surprise me if you guys ran the table the rest of the year. Now please stomp a mudhole in the Chiefs at week 11.

That's a done deal. Love to see you in a rematch this February so beat San Francisco yes?

 

[Reaneypark]

Let's not be so hard on the Hawks in this one, Denver is a damn good team and they have improved a good deal since last year. Yeah, giving up the lead sucked, but Wilson and the guys came through when needed in the worst way. Remember, we needed OT to beat crappy Tampa and Houston last year.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

......Wilson was a little non-chalant when he threw the ball over Walters without any pressure. .....

He had a LOT of pressure on that play, right up the middle in his face. Still think he should've completed the pass though.

Nice to hear what you said about Marsh, Tical. I didn't notice that. Looks like he might be another great mid-round draft pick perhaps.

Agree with you about throwing to th middle of the field.



Some of my thoughts:

I said on the gameday forum and I'll say it again here, Wilson is a legend in the making. Call it hyperbole all you want, I'm not changing my mind. This kid finds ways to win games, ala' Chicago 2 years ago and getting us back in the game vs. Houston last year with that long drive. He doesn't get it done every time, but no one does. IDK, maybe I'm just too used to the Kreigs and Hasselbecks of the world after 38 years, good but not great, but this kid........so freakin' clutch!

Winning teams have units that pick each other up. Last year in the NFCCG, the offense had a chance to score to put the game away with a 10 point lead very late and only got the FG leaving the game open for the Frisco offense. The defense stepped up and won the game for the team. Today, the defense lost a lead but the offense stepped up and won the game in OT. It's a great thing to see.

If Haushcka makes that FG the game never comes down to the ending we saw.

Agree with kearly about the officiating. They let the teams play to benefit and detriment of both teams. Not surprising considering it was the marquee game of the weekend and there were a LOT of eyeballs on it.

Also agree with kearly about the lack of field stretching plays. Lockette has elite speed and Percy is world class so why aren't we running fly patterns with them several times a game? The pass pro can be hit and miss but you ain't gonna get it if you don't try.

Hey Marshawn, when you're running from your own golline it's probably best to run straight ahead. The middle was open for a 3-4 yard gain and you tried to go wide on that safety. Yeah I know, Coleman didn't kill it on tht block, but he kept the guy from hitting you.

Pass rush is still a big concern for me. LOB played really well today, save for that last Donkey drive.

Run D was greatly improved today.

Where was Luke Willson today?

Niners lost. So, uh, when does the whole thing implode in Santa Clara?

Cards 3-0. Good for them. Arians can coach, that's for sure. We'll see you all down the road.

 

[kearly]

I didn't really see anything wrong with Bevell's playcalling. I just think Denver's defense really stepped up in this game and made some terrific plays in the 4th quarter. Other than maybe the drag routes at the end of the game, Bevell never felt predictable, and it's okay to be predictable on drag routes when they get you 7 yards every single time.

Wilson's feet saved the day in the end, but let's not overlook that the playcalls Bevell made helped set up every one of those QB scrambles. Whether a QB has the opportunity to scramble or not is often dictated by what the other 10 players on offense do to manipulate the defense. It's always seemed to me that certain pass plays seemed designed to set up QB runs almost like an assigned checkdown. Those runs by Wilson seemed designed to me, it's not like he Houdini'd his way to miracle gains every time he pulled down to run.

My only real issue with Bevell this season is that he needs to go deep a lot more for the sake of toxic differential and to keep a defense honest. Even if it means taking an extra sack here and there.

I think Pete would have been crazy not to play for the FG and clock milking with two minutes left. If Seattle throws an incomplete pass, Denver has almost 2 full minutes to tie the game (throwing the ball also has a higher chance of resulting in a turnover too). With the rush attempt, Manning had to go 80 yards and convert a 2 pt. conversion just to tie, and only had 59 seconds to do it with no timeouts. His win probability at that point was probably less than 10%. If you can't trust your defense to win the game for you in such a favorable situation at home, that's just a slap in the face to the D.

 

[LickMyNuts]

I don't think you can blame the DB's. They are being asked to do too much.

WHERE IS THE INTERIOR PASS RUSH?

We can't expect all of the pressure to come from the edge.

 

[Tical21]

I didn't really see anything wrong with Bevell's playcalling. I just think Denver's defense really stepped up in this game and made some terrific plays in the 4th quarter. Other than maybe the drag routes at the end of the game, Bevell never felt predictable, and it's okay to be predictable on drag routes when they get you 7 yards every single time.

Wilson's feet saved the day in the end, but let's not overlook that the playcalls Bevell made helped set up every one of those QB scrambles. Whether a QB has the opportunity to scramble or not is often dictated by what the other 10 players on offense do to manipulate the defense. It's always seemed to me that certain pass plays seemed designed to set up QB runs almost like an assigned checkdown. Those runs by Wilson seemed designed to me, it's not like he Houdini'd his way to miracle gains every time he pulled down to run.

My only real issue with Bevell this season is that he needs to go deep a lot more for the sake of toxic differential and to keep defenses honest. Even if it means taking an extra sack here and there.

I think Pete would have been crazy not to go for the FG with two minutes left. If Seattle throws an incomplete pass, Denver has almost 2 full minutes to tie the game. With the rush attempt, Manning had to go 80 yards and convert a 2 pt. conversion just to tie, and only had 59 seconds to do it. His win probability at that point was probably less than 10%. If you can't trust your defense to win the game for you in such a favorable situation at home, that's just a slap in the face to the D.

I very rarely have had issues with Bevell's playcalling, and I think for a lot of stretches he was quite good tonight. However, for quite a while, we really didn't get anybody open, and at least some portion of that is usually on the playcaller. We seemed to be just running a couple of plays between drags and rollouts to buy time to run those plays again.

I do agree that a lot of times QB's can get huge scrambling yards by using certain route combinations against certain defenses, but in large part I thought Russell just ran because nothing was open and he made a play. There may be an element of design on some where running is a 2nd or 3rd option.

I agree that it would have been crazy to pass and not setup the field goal. I would run it every single time. But Pete (or possibly Bevell) almost never does. When he knows the defense is selling out against the run, he calls a pass, almost regardless of situation. It is like a free conversion. We pass when running the clock out up 14 with four minutes left. He seems to take his foot off the gas less often than any coach I can recall seeing.

 

[kigenzun]

The fact that we shut Denver down to 3 points in 3 quarters speaks for itself. The Super Bowl was no fluke.

That we left the building with the W, again(!), makes me wonder what any haters have to complain about at all.

Face it Tony Dungy, the Donks lost... fair and square. There are no "moral" victories. That's bullshit.

From my humble point of view, the only reason Peyton Manning didn't leave this game on a cart was the blatant holding allowed on Cliff Avril all day. Michael Bennett would also have added to the strip sack / turnover action, (at least once, if not twice), if not for blatant holding. The ref didn't just swallow his whistle today; he ate his flag. For example, the late developing 42 yard wheel route to get their last gasp drive going would have been nullified by the obvious holding on Avril actually being called.

I mean, I know the whole league revolves around Peyton Manning like the Sun goes around the Earth, but come on. The man is a statue. A figurehead. Like Fat Old Elvis, or a reincarnated Johnny Unitas. The truth nobody in the media ever mentions is he has no mobility, throws ducks under pressure, and sucks in big games. The reversal of ET3's strip fumble is the only way this game wasn't another avalanche/tsunami of Blue & Green.

Its time to pass the MVP torch. Russell Wilson is 7-0 against the 'BIG4', including the playoffs. Its mind-boggling the national media can't recognize that he's good...AS IN REAL, REAL GOOD. AS IN MVP GOOD.

As far as mistakes? It aint perfect, but personally, I don't expect it to be. These are human beings, not robots, and human beings make mistakes sometimes.

All I can say is we got heart. And we proved it today. Maybe it shouldn't have even been close, but...

Coming up off the canvas, with an epic 13-play Touchdown drive in Overtime shows that WE ARE THE CHAMPIONSHIP CALIBER FOOTBALL TEAM. Not them.

The Super Bowl Trophy Banner belongs in our house.

We won. The Donks lost. Deal with it.

 

[kearly]

I do agree that a lot of times QB's can get huge scrambling yards by using certain route combinations against certain defenses, but in large part I thought Russell just ran because nothing was open and he made a play. There may be an element of design on some where running is a 2nd or 3rd option.

We'd probably need to see the all-22 to know for sure. But to me, it felt like all of those 3rd down runs were there for the taking for Wilson. He didn't have to juke anybody. He didn't have to fool anybody. He he didn't have to Houdini anybody. All he had to do was hustle to the sideline and he'd get it easily each time. That's not always there for Wilson, so I suspect the playcall helped open that sideline for him.

I very rarely have had issues with Bevell's playcalling, and I think for a lot of stretches he was quite good tonight. However, for quite a while, we really didn't get anybody open, and at least some portion of that is usually on the playcaller. We seemed to be just running a couple of plays between drags and rollouts to buy time to run those plays again.

There's probably a lot of factors with that. We don't have much of a timing aspect in our offense due to having a short QB, we have short receivers who are harder to trust on contested throws, and we have a QB who really hates throwing interceptions. Offensive design could be a part of it too. That's fair to wonder.

I remember when the Falcons beat the Hawks and Russell spent the next month telling everyone that would listen about how amazing Tony Gonzalez was. Gonzalez was always open in that playoff game, regardless of how well he was covered. I think Russell was jealous that he didn't have a weapon like that to exploit the crap out of on 3rd down. We need more size in our WR corps, or a rebounding champion at TE. I think if Wilson has more big bodies with strong hands to throw to, he's going to be a lot less befuddled looking for somewhere to throw the ball.

That said, it does seem inexcusable that any QB could run around for five seconds and consistently struggle to find open receivers against almost every defense he faces.

 

[Optimus25]

i have a few inputs as well:

1. russell okung may be a major contributor at his position and absolutely critical to this team, but it sure seems like when he commits penalties they are at critical times. maybe just me. wasn't it a penalty of his that helped seal that safety??

2. We have the worst "we can give up anything at all, anything, EXCEPT for consecutive 20+ pass plays" defense in the history of the NFL. we almost lost that chicago game last year or the year before due to this problem, don't have time to research it, (same secondary anyway), and this is how we lost to atlanta in the year before's playoffs. did we intentionally run that defense because i'm hoping it was just confusion from the sideline or something. manning is great, but we should have had a minimum of 2 guys swarming anybody 15 yards down the field. bar none. no excuses. any player 15 yards or less from the LOS is not a threat when they have no timeouts. even the welker catches, which were huge chunks (from YAC), were all for naught until manning is able to chuck those 2 deep looks to sanders and tamme. i would have kept letting them try to dip and dunk to welker all day before i let anyone run free in our secondary. not only did they score that, they did it with 18 seconds to spare. just not acceptable IMO.

3. is lockette this year's kearse? is kearse last years ADB? baldwin continues to make critical catches in critical downs in his own right too.

4. mmqb here. the pass play selection on russell's pick was terrible. that was a perfect drive to just ground and pound. and if bevell wants to throw in that situation, why are we going after talib? wasn't he lined up defensive left all day, a la sherman?

5. russell was an absolute beast, i don't like to be critical of the man who brought us a ring and a bright future, but seriously, this read option look is a "read" option in nature. to me Russell is not "reading", and i'm getting a little frustrated. but maybe they are actually designed runs going to marshawn all the way with a read option look to it, so i have nothing to complain about. but about half the time if I can read the Dline in my living room, and if i can see Russell should fake the handoff and scramble for 3-4 yards easy, i guess i expect him to see it too, instead of just ALWAYS giving to lynch and occassionally losing 2 yards in the process. and on these plays i'm even accounting for the fact that the defensive end sees the handoff and bails the QB, and there are times when he has 3-4 with a slide EASY, i mean seriously what happened to russell keeping on the read option???
EDIT***(just wanted to C+P the below from previous poster, to give it more chance of being read or re-read, good stuff)
"Its time to pass the MVP torch. Russell Wilson is 7-0 against the 'BIG4', including the playoffs. Its mind-boggling the national media can't recognize that he's good...AS IN REAL, REAL GOOD. AS IN MVP GOOD."

 

[kearly]

Pete Carroll during that last Broncos drive:

 

[Scottemojo]

If I never saw another bootleg to Von Miller's side of the field I would be A-OK with that.

I loved the little pump Wilson put on Talib when he hit the bomb to Lockette, Vet move on a guy who is peeking. If course, that same peeking slimeball got Wilson later on. Seriously, how do you do an atomic drop on a guy and stay in the game?

It was inexcusable to have no help for Britt on Ware at the goal line if it was a deep read. No way he should have the blindside on a long developing play right there.

Lynch still doesn't like to follow Coleman.

1 sack, but the pressure on Manning was pretty good.

I think these ultra physical games are the toughest for refs to call. If they called everything on both teams there would have been 40 penalties.

Sweezy is becoming a monster. Carp can't block for shit in space. But amazeballs, he was moving pretty well in space.

I have to rewatch and see how the Denver TE got dinged. In the presser Payton said that affected them a lot with formations.

That stupid WR screen that Denver throws should get Gace a spanking from Fox. Unless Payton was the one that called them. And thanks for the 2 crappy draws on third down, the ghost of Holmgren musta made him do it.

 

[The Battle #83]

11 different players with a catch today lol. Is that a record?

 

[kearly]

Seriously, how do you do an atomic drop on a guy and stay in the game?

I wondered that myself. Must be because Talib is The People's Champion.

Lynch still doesn't like to follow Coleman.

Very true, though I think that actually worked in our favor during Lynch's game-winner. Coleman got that LB to bite.

All the same, Coleman has not looked effective since his great performance vs. Green Bay.

And thanks for the 2 crappy draws on third down, the ghost of Holmgren musta made him do it.

Those were pretty mindblowing. At least when Holmgren did it, the Hawks were handing off to one of the biggest playmaking RBs in the league.

Ball on the other hand, is a plodder by comparison and ran in the 4.6 range. With Seattle having their NASCAR package on the field on those downs, it's very possible that all 11 defenders could beat Montee Ball in a footrace.

 

[DYLcurry59]

Is it just me, or does having the nervous tension back in the game experience make it feel more like real Seahawks football?

Lol - it totally does

 

[DYLcurry59]

And thanks for the 2 crappy draws on third down, the ghost of Holmgren musta made him do it.

The first time they did it, even though they didn't make it, I thought it was a good call. Totally caught me off guard.

The second time they did it was just stupid.