Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.

[truehawksfan]

Hmmm. Penny is:
-slow
-came into camp out of shape
-not hungry
-used to seeing this FO blow early picks.
-did I miss anything?

Seems to me the, "what did I say comment" don't fly because it sounds like these comments say draft bust

 

[hawknation2018]

Hmmm. Penny is:
-slow
-came into camp out of shape
-not hungry
-used to seeing this FO blow early picks.
-did I miss anything?

Seems to me the, "what did I say comment" don't fly because it sounds like these comments say draft bust

Runs a 4.4 at 220 lbs. No evidence that he was out of shape. He put on weight, but that was likely intentional. This is how false rumors begin.

 

[chris98251]

Carson a 7th rounder, Davis a 4th rounder, Adrian Foster was undrafted. Mark Ingram was a first rounder also and we could go on and on and on about 1ST busts. So by your objectivity, every Receiver we bring in that is a draft pick should be able to walk in and take Baldwins spot on the roster, same can be said for every 1st round QB that we bring in or 2nd rounder since Wilson is a third rounder.


Pete wants Penny hungry, Penny has skills, needs confidence and a chance, needs to adapt to NFL speed for his cuts, he is a different type of runner then Carson and Davis. If there is a back on the roster that resembles what Alexander did it is Penny as far as running, Penny just has a much more complete game then Alexander ever did.

Yeah I figured no reply since you want to use one example to fit your argument but when you pull in other aspects that don't support it the Ostrich comes out.

 

[adeltaY]

I find it very hard to believe Hernandez wouldn't be starting over Sweezy or Fluker at one of the guard spots and they probably wouldn't even have signed Sweezy if they had Hernandez, who has been graded very well by PFF so far.

The Melvin Gordon comparison makes sense in that he wasn't good his first year, but he was at least starting. Can anyone name a first round pick RB who was a third stringer his first year and went on to be great?

To address the first part of this, yes, you are right, Hernandez would probably be starting and we probably wouldn't have signed Sweezy.

My issue is that Spin Doctor keeps trashing the Penny pick and saying Hernandez should've been drafted, but guard is actually a solid unit on our team and Hernandez wouldn't be much of an improvement. So, if we had drafted Hernandez, is our team really in a better overall state than we are currently?

Right now we can withstand an injury to both RB and Guard. If we drafted Hernandez and not Penny, we would not be in a state to withstand an RB injury. If we went RB later, who do you want to cast off that we drafted? Keep in mind every draft pick we made is still with the team.

Yeah, but Hernandez is a young, cheap player under club control for years. Guards also play at a higher level for longer than RBs, usually.

Steven Jackson was great as was Larry Johnson. I'm not that high on Mark Ingram tbh, but he has been productive. I would hope Penny can be better than Ingram. I still think we should have taken a pass rusher instead, but oh well.

 

[hawk45]

Not once have I said Penny was a bust or "completely written him off", and in fact I have yet to read 1 person saying they wrote him off completely. People are saying he was a poor pick for the 1st round because he is holding the bench down, appears slow and most don't believe a finger issue or missed training camp will slow a players speed down.

Penny's pretty damn quick through the hole, it's after that I'm a little concerned.

What makes Carson such a great back (and all good to great RB's) is his ability to break that first tackle and get to the 2nd level.

I haven't seen Penny do this, he goes down at first contact far too often for my taste.

Obviously very small sample size, and goes against all of his draft profile positives. Most of what I read and saw was that he was more like Lynch, physical tackle breaking type back.

But yes, so far? Not worth a first round pick. You pick a RB in the first round, he better not only start right away, but be your primary back getting 1,000 yards a season right from the get go.

Agree with the above.

Would also add that all one had to do to be suspicious of his YAC hype was watch his college highlight tape on YouTube. Some outmatched lb or corner would get a finger on him around his excellent blockers and penny would go for 50. Carson and Davis have more broken tackle highlights in 2 games than penny's entire highlight reel.

Always HATED when that YAC stat was quoted to suggest he'd fit in behind crappy blocking. Penny's only hope is our line continues to block well because he does have speed and shiftiness if he is hardly touched.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Always HATED when that YAC stat was quoted to suggest he'd fit in behind crappy blocking. Penny's only hope is our line continues to block well because he does have speed and shiftiness if he is hardly touched.

Unfortunately with what I've seen so far with Penny I'd have to agree with this assessment..........which means he's more of a change of pace back, and not a primary back.

But we'll see, many more years to see what Penny can bring. Just not very excited right now that we spent a #1 on him with so many other glaring needs on this roster.

 

[adeltaY]

Carson a 7th rounder, Davis a 4th rounder, Adrian Foster was undrafted. Mark Ingram was a first rounder also and we could go on and on and on about 1ST busts. So by your objectivity, every Receiver we bring in that is a draft pick should be able to walk in and take Baldwins spot on the roster, same can be said for every 1st round QB that we bring in or 2nd rounder since Wilson is a third rounder.


Pete wants Penny hungry, Penny has skills, needs confidence and a chance, needs to adapt to NFL speed for his cuts, he is a different type of runner then Carson and Davis. If there is a back on the roster that resembles what Alexander did it is Penny as far as running, Penny just has a much more complete game then Alexander ever did.

Yeah I figured no reply since you want to use one example to fit your argument but when you pull in other aspects that don't support it the Ostrich comes out.

Not sure who that comment was directed towards but receivers typically take a while to get going whereas it's more common for RBs to hit the ground running so to speak.

RBs are also much less valuable than receivers (the NFL agrees, RBs are the lowest paid of any offensive position) so spending a first round pick on an RB comes with heightened expectations because they are more replaceable.

 

[hawknation2018]

While he adjusts to the speed of the game, learns to be more decisive, and continues to develop physically, the best way to use him right now would be to find plays that allow him to build up a head full of steam before initiating contact. That is when he is at his most elusive and tackle breaking. He’s a 230 lbs freight train going 20 mph, who can cut and has vision. It’s just going to take him time to put it all together.

I and some others expected this when he was drafted and were criticized for it by people like Seymour. Now those people are parroting our criticisms but think he has no chance to improve? That’s ridiculous.

 

[doso]

I say give him more touches returning the ball. Maybe that will get him going?

 

[hawknation2018]

I say give him more touches returning the ball. Maybe that will get him going?

Definitely. Gives Lockett a breather, as well.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I say give him more touches returning the ball. Maybe that will get him going?

That was Pete's plan when we drafted Penny, not sure what happened.

Maybe Pete's worried about Penny's health returning cause he needs him in either/or Davis or Carson get hurt during a game.

 

[West TX Hawk]

While he adjusts to the speed of the game, learns to be more decisive, and continues to develop physically, the best way to use him right now would be to find plays that allow him to build up a head full of steam before initiating contact.

There's something wrong when you have the 18th pick and this is the limited scenario you have for the player you end up selecting 1st to possibly be successful.

Did Carson need time to develop? Time to learn to be decisive? Time to develop physically?

It's interesting there's been double standards on this board for certain players. Many on here after just 4 games in Carson's career, labeled him "just an average back-hasn't been nor never will be a bell cow, etc" Or because he injured his ankle running hard and had an injury in HS and like many RBs had an injury in college, labeled him "injury prone" but because Penny suffered an injury, it's now "he was held behind because of the finger injury-just wait til he's healthy, etc."

I for one certainly hope Penny can contribute and will improve. He's got 5 years after all. But the number of excuses for him and contradictory logic in this thread used to warrant his 1st round status is remarkable.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I for one certainly hope Penny can contribute and will improve. He's got 5 years after all. But the number of excuses for him and contradictory logic in this thread used to warrant his 1st round status is remarkable.

There should be no learning or developing with a 1st round RB. It's probably the ONLY position where this is the case.

Maybe some pass-pro and route running? But no, you draft a RB in the first round, he's your bell cow back, not a 3rd stringer that's not even seeing the field after 5 games.

btw, I totally get why Pete and John picked Penny at the time of the draft. Three straight years of revolving door often injured RB's, with Carson coming off a major leg injury. So the need was there.

Doesn't mean Penny can't be our primary back in the future, but make no mistake, where he was picked is why he and others are frustrated with his lack of production so far this season.

 

[Seahawk_Dan]

While he adjusts to the speed of the game, learns to be more decisive, and continues to develop physically, the best way to use him right now would be to find plays that allow him to build up a head full of steam before initiating contact.

There's something wrong when you have the 18th pick and this is the limited scenario you have for the player you end up selecting 1st to possibly be successful.

Did Carson need time to develop? Time to learn to be decisive? Time to develop physically?

It's interesting there's been double standards on this board for certain players. Many on here after just 4 games in Carson's career, labeled him "just an average back-hasn't been nor never will be a bell cow, etc" Or because he injured his ankle running hard and had an injury in HS and like many RBs had an injury in college, labeled him "injury prone" but because Penny suffered an injury, it's now "he was held behind because of the finger injury-just wait til he's healthy, etc."

I for one certainly hope Penny can contribute and will improve. He's got 5 years after all. But the number of excuses for him and contradictory logic in this thread used to warrant his 1st round status is remarkable.

Carson's injury prone status has been with him since college. If I remember correctly his two first years in college were marred with injury. Rob over at Seahawksdraftblog has talked about it a few times, hence one of the reasons why Penny was drafted because Carson, though a workhorse by nature, couldn't be trusted due to his college history and what happened in 2017 with a broken leg.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Carson isn't the exception. The history of the NFL is full of running backs that are productive as low round picks, even right away in some cases. We're seeing two of them right now in Royce Freeman and Lindsay over in Denver. Two really productive backs in last years draft were taken in the 3rd round (Kareem Hunt and Alvin Kamara). Our Chris Carson was also productive in the games he played as a 7th round pick. Hell, the Broncos under Shannahan regularly turned nobodies into stars, that was their MO.

History actually tells you the higher you were selected at RB the better your success rate in the NFL will be. Plenty of studies on it.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I find it very hard to believe Hernandez wouldn't be starting over Sweezy or Fluker at one of the guard spots and they probably wouldn't even have signed Sweezy if they had Hernandez, who has been graded very well by PFF so far.

The Melvin Gordon comparison makes sense in that he wasn't good his first year, but he was at least starting. Can anyone name a first round pick RB who was a third stringer his first year and went on to be great?

Mark Ingram, behind Pierre Thomas and Darren Sproles as a rookie.

Pierre Thomas is not that great of a running back, he is decidedly mediocre, Mark Ingram took many years to finally come into his own, and Darren Sproles is not a traditional RB, he is a Reggie Bush type of player that rotates all around the field, not a feature back.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I say give him more touches returning the ball. Maybe that will get him going?

We already tried that. He had even touches with Carson going into week three, and he looked like garbage.

 

[hawknation2018]

While he adjusts to the speed of the game, learns to be more decisive, and continues to develop physically, the best way to use him right now would be to find plays that allow him to build up a head full of steam before initiating contact.

There's something wrong when you have the 18th pick and this is the limited scenario you have for the player you end up selecting 1st to possibly be successful.

Did Carson need time to develop? Time to learn to be decisive? Time to develop physically?

It's interesting there's been double standards on this board for certain players. Many on here after just 4 games in Carson's career, labeled him "just an average back-hasn't been nor never will be a bell cow, etc" Or because he injured his ankle running hard and had an injury in HS and like many RBs had an injury in college, labeled him "injury prone" but because Penny suffered an injury, it's now "he was held behind because of the finger injury-just wait til he's healthy, etc."

I for one certainly hope Penny can contribute and will improve. He's got 5 years after all. But the number of excuses for him and contradictory logic in this thread used to warrant his 1st round status is remarkable.

Always loved Carson, so I wasn’t one of those people.

Penny should not have been a first round pick. At the same time, he has the potential to develop into a very good player over time. Both of these things can be true.

 

[toffee]

I suspect and speculate the train of events were:

1. Draft - OTA
Penny had a lot of success in college,
He surveyed his competitors of Carson, a 7th rounder that was 'injury prone'. Davis, a castoff from 9ers. Both sounded underwhelming. Penny assumed that he was going to be the savior for Hawks' running game if not offense.
Penny was complacent, enjoy $ from his rookie contact, and guess what, didn't train hard and got heavy.

2. OTA
Penny couldn't measure up to Carson, in turns of conditioning. Coaches started pushing him, but that savior assumption persisted. OTA was OTA, come training camp? let me show Pete and Carson, he assumed.

3. TC
Penny still couldn't measure up to Carson and Davis, then his fingers got broken, which ended this TC early.
Slow turn around in his savior mentality, but still guessing he will out perform Carson and Davis come game time.

4. PS
Didn't have much of a preseason due to injury.

5. Season
Frustration started! Lack of achievement led to less playing time follow with negative press. Witnessing Carson and Davis' success, Penny ought be a bit scared by now,

SO yes, Pete is right. Penny's frustration could be VERY GOOD, if Penny is mentally tough and competitive. By now, his post draft savior mentality out to be total gone. If he can leverage his frustration into working super hard, he might, just might be lift the Hawks to a different level.

 

[Hawksfan78]

I think we can just face the facts; the Seahawks are not good at drafting good durable running backs and keeping them here. Below are some examples. Does not include undrafted free agents

2017
7th round - Chris Carson
2016
3rd round - C.J. Prosise
5th round - Alex Collins*
7th round - zac brooks
2015 none
2014
7th round - kilo small
2013
2nd round - Christine Michael
6th round - Spencer Ware*
2012
4th round - Robert Turbin*

* released and with another team