Our SB winning formula is toast

[sdog1981]

Except for the Patriots, who don’t pay there franchise qb market value.

I'm sure Patriot fans laugh this off as just another excuse, but it really is an advantage.

He was paid top dollar after 2003 and his team stopped winning Superbowls as the defense aged. Once he got older he started to take less money. This last run was made with young drafted D talent and cheap offensive talent that only work in their system. The James White, Chris Hogan, Amandola types along with drafted players like Chandler Jones, Malcom Brown, Hightower and Collins. So yes they have a system that in many ways the Seahawks copied. When Russ is in his mid to late 30’s he will take team friendly deals.

 

[XxXdragonXxX]

To correct a slightly flawed line of reasoning in this thread...we don't need to become run HEAVY. We need to run the ball better to become more BALANCED.

Im not sure if we need to be more balanced without Bevell. It seems to me that our offense was built around the run game. Run first, pass as a compliment...run, run, run, run, chuck it deep when the defense starts to creep up. I dont think Bevell adjusted the way he called the passing game with no run game to set it up.

I firmly believe that Wilson will be great as the focua of the offense. We obviously need to run the ball BETTER but I dont think we need to run it MORE.

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

And I thought our Superbowl winning formula was pancakes.

 

[XxXdragonXxX]

And I thought our Superbowl winning formula was pancakes.

Nope it was waffles.

 

[jammerhawk]

We have a franchise QB who is being paid fairly. What we don’t have is an OLine who can do the job and a RB who is tougher than nails and who runs tough. Our O can’t impose it’s will on anyone. Our D is overworked and our ST are under performing.

I agree with Largent hat the FO went away from the “formula” by trading for Harvin and Graham losing their first round picks and more to have two expensive players who Bevell had zero clue on how to properly use. Now they are both gone and the team had to trade away early picks to replace those lost picks with player the FO overpaid as they thought they might have a shot at the rings.

After the trades the team lost their franchise RB and they haven’t yet replaced him. That said they are good at finding RB talent but need to find ‘that guy’ yet although we all remain hopeful about Carson. The loss of Lynch however combined with a totally terrible OLine has the team totally taken away from ‘the formula’ and struggling to maintain their identity. This last season their O in almost winning 11 games and actually only winning just a lowly 9 was nothing short of freaking terrible. They couldn’t run, their O was toothless, and their D was busted and under achieved.

If the blame game has to be played as some will, it’s on Pn’J for not staying true to their formula for trading away critical early picks and not replacing the key components for their success. The fix is not that far away the D has many of the pieces but needs to add speed and toughness.changes need to happen and big changes are afoot.

They will return to playing tough D and possession football while punching other teams in the mouth doing just that.

 

[mrt144]

And I thought our Superbowl winning formula was pancakes.

Nope it was waffles.

Same diff.

 

[Seymour]

We have a franchise QB who is being paid fairly. What we don’t have is an OLine who can do the job and a RB who is tougher than nails and who runs tough. Our O can’t impose it’s will on anyone. Our D is overworked and our ST are under performing.

I agree with Largent hat the FO went away from the “formula” by trading for Harvin and Graham losing their first round picks and more to have two expensive players who Bevell had zero clue on how to properly use. Now they are both gone and the team had to trade away early picks to replace those lost picks with player the FO overpaid as they thought they might have a shot at the rings.

After the trades the team lost their franchise RB and they haven’t yet replaced him. That said they are good at finding RB talent but need to find ‘that guy’ yet although we all remain hopeful about Carson. The loss of Lynch however combined with a totally terrible OLine has the team totally taken away from ‘the formula’ and struggling to maintain their identity. This last season their O in almost winning 11 games and actually only winning just a lowly 9 was nothing short of freaking terrible. They couldn’t run, their O was toothless, and their D was busted and under achieved.

If the blame game has to be played as some will, it’s on Pn’J for not staying true to their formula for trading away critical early picks and not replacing the key components for their success. The fix is not that far away the D has many of the pieces but needs to add speed and toughness.changes need to happen and big changes are afoot.

They will return to playing tough D and possession football while punching other teams in the mouth doing just that.

Not only are they not good at finding running back talent, they are actually terrible at it. It is the 2nd most wasted draft pick spot behind oline and it really needs to get much better. Here are 13 reasons over 6 years and 5 total backs in 2016 alone that dispute your opinion on finding RB's.

 

[kf3339]

The problem is that the NFL has boxed itself into a corner.

The rules favor teams with a great QB now. You almost cannot win without a great QB.

Minnesota and the Eagles are maybe showing some pathways teams can use instead but before the rules it was very possible to make it to the SB with a great defense and a great run game.

The biggest rule change is that stupid 5 yard holding automatic first down rule. Holding should be 10 yards. No first down.

I have seen 3rd and 30 plays where a ticky tack holding call gets a first down. It is ridiculous enough that the offense has all the benefit of the doubt, that play tilts the advantage ridiculously in favor of the QB.

Frankly, there needs to be a cap on PI as well. One bad call can put a team on the goal line and I have seen it happen numerous times. Make it 25 yards if you have to but allowing a team to just chuck it up and end up at the 10 because of it is ridiculous.

If we stop putting in rules that overweight the impact of the QB, then the NFL won't subject 80% of the other teams to having no chance because they don't have a premiere QB. That will allow some teams to decide to load up with defense instead of paying QBs 170M and it will stop the ridiculous upward pressure on QB salaries because great QBs are such a scare resource their escalating salaries are pushing up the mediocre QB salaries.

We already have a situation where teams realize that a #1 QB is paramount for long term success and since #1 QBs really can only be gotten with the 1st pick (maybe 2nd or 3rd) - you enter a situation where teams have to compete with each other to be as terrible as possible to get a bad enough record for the 1st pick. Just to get a shot at long term success.

What the NFL did is put rules in place that artificially added close to 30% extra production from the QBs. Remember when the Greatest Show on Turf was throwing for 300 yards and that was impressive? Now everyone throws for 300, because drives are artificially revived with these rules. But it means QBs look better than they are, cost more than they should, and teams without a QB have to keep getting on the Merry-Go-Round draft cycle hoping to get one.

This statement is absolutely correct. The NFL has in fact slanted the game far too much in favor of the offense and especially the QB position. You almost never saw 300 years passing games and certainly not 5000 yard passing seasons in the NFL. That is an exact result of a fundamental change in the rules heavily favoring the offense. It has now become somewhat of a joke when you watch games today.

I would personally like to see the rules reversed back 20 years and then see what these QB's could accomplish. That would change their value back to where it should be, but it won't happen. The NFL doesn't know how to correct the problem and is slowly killing itself.

 

[Uncle Si]

Yes, let's go back to smash mouth run game offenses where these even more elite, faster, stronger defenders can tee off on the players even more...

I do not think that is what the game is looking for.. less scoring and more injuries.

The QB should be the primary position in the NFL, and the rules should be slanted to his advantage (heavily, really). The problem is their salaries have skipped because their numbers are way up and it's getting tougher to pay more than a handful of elite players on a team where the QB is making a huge salary.

 

[chris98251]

We have a franchise QB who is being paid fairly. What we don’t have is an OLine who can do the job and a RB who is tougher than nails and who runs tough. Our O can’t impose it’s will on anyone. Our D is overworked and our ST are under performing.

I agree with Largent hat the FO went away from the “formula” by trading for Harvin and Graham losing their first round picks and more to have two expensive players who Bevell had zero clue on how to properly use. Now they are both gone and the team had to trade away early picks to replace those lost picks with player the FO overpaid as they thought they might have a shot at the rings.

After the trades the team lost their franchise RB and they haven’t yet replaced him. That said they are good at finding RB talent but need to find ‘that guy’ yet although we all remain hopeful about Carson. The loss of Lynch however combined with a totally terrible OLine has the team totally taken away from ‘the formula’ and struggling to maintain their identity. This last season their O in almost winning 11 games and actually only winning just a lowly 9 was nothing short of freaking terrible. They couldn’t run, their O was toothless, and their D was busted and under achieved.

If the blame game has to be played as some will, it’s on Pn’J for not staying true to their formula for trading away critical early picks and not replacing the key components for their success. The fix is not that far away the D has many of the pieces but needs to add speed and toughness.changes need to happen and big changes are afoot.

They will return to playing tough D and possession football while punching other teams in the mouth doing just that.

Not only are they not good at finding running back talent, they are actually terrible at it. It is the 2nd most wasted draft pick spot behind oline and it really needs to get much better. Here are 13 reasons over 6 years and 5 total backs in 2016 alone that dispute your opinion on finding RB's.

It is not the talent at RB, it was the line and how the scheme was used. You can't run through Brick walls unless your a D9 which Lynch was close to.

 

[mrt144]

We have a franchise QB who is being paid fairly. What we don’t have is an OLine who can do the job and a RB who is tougher than nails and who runs tough. Our O can’t impose it’s will on anyone. Our D is overworked and our ST are under performing.

I agree with Largent hat the FO went away from the “formula” by trading for Harvin and Graham losing their first round picks and more to have two expensive players who Bevell had zero clue on how to properly use. Now they are both gone and the team had to trade away early picks to replace those lost picks with player the FO overpaid as they thought they might have a shot at the rings.

After the trades the team lost their franchise RB and they haven’t yet replaced him. That said they are good at finding RB talent but need to find ‘that guy’ yet although we all remain hopeful about Carson. The loss of Lynch however combined with a totally terrible OLine has the team totally taken away from ‘the formula’ and struggling to maintain their identity. This last season their O in almost winning 11 games and actually only winning just a lowly 9 was nothing short of freaking terrible. They couldn’t run, their O was toothless, and their D was busted and under achieved.

If the blame game has to be played as some will, it’s on Pn’J for not staying true to their formula for trading away critical early picks and not replacing the key components for their success. The fix is not that far away the D has many of the pieces but needs to add speed and toughness.changes need to happen and big changes are afoot.

They will return to playing tough D and possession football while punching other teams in the mouth doing just that.

Not only are they not good at finding running back talent, they are actually terrible at it. It is the 2nd most wasted draft pick spot behind oline and it really needs to get much better. Here are 13 reasons over 6 years and 5 total backs in 2016 alone that dispute your opinion on finding RB's.

It is not the talent at RB, it was the line and how the scheme was used. You can't run through Brick walls unless your a D9 which Lynch was close to.

A D9 for reference

 

[Seymour]

It is not the talent at RB, it was the line and how the scheme was used. You can't run through Brick walls unless your a D9 which Lynch was close to.

I agree with that in general and have made the statement myself. But I still disagree that they are good at finding and evaluating the RB position talent because the team still thought the problem was at RB and not so much the oline when you look at the moves they made. A recent example of this is signing and overpaying Lacey and letting Collins go in a time that cap numbers were very tight.

 

[chris98251]

They drafted Lacey based on past production and blaming the RB's instead of holding Cable responsible for lack of running lanes, the fact the Ware, and Collins both have proven to be very good in a scheme and system that is the adaptive version of the ZBS with Power blocking lanes and pulling lineman. Lacey could not even get going in our system, why we went to the shifty scat back type to try and dodge the Defensive lineman in the backfield so much.

This also showed the Sherman Smith was working miracles before he was released and blamed.

 

[Seymour]

They drafted Lacey based on past production and blaming the RB's instead of holding Cable responsible for lack of running lanes, the fact the Ware, and Collins both have proven to be very good in a scheme and system that is the adaptive version of the ZBS with Power blocking lanes and pulling lineman. Lacey could not even get going in our system, why we went to the shifty scat back type to try and dodge the Defensive lineman in the backfield so much.

This also showed the Sherman Smith was working miracles before he was released and blamed.

Sherman Smith probably got fired for telling Pete, Cable and Co. the truth. :x

 

[brimsalabim]

When you miss on both running back and ol this badly but still insist on running the ball as your base offense your boss should fire you. Pete and John are lucky they caught lightning in a jar in 2012 cause neither is brilliant as they believe they are.

 

[MeanBlueGreen]

It would seem to me that Russell Wilson is essentially on a 2 year prove it deal. if the Hawks are not going anywhere, I think paying him 25+ million per year on a new contract would be prohibitive. At that point, we likely are need of a major rebuild and quite likely Pete Caroll would retire necessitating hiring a new coach who may or may not feel Wilson is his guy.

Wilson is a franchise QB. No one is unloading our franchise QB - they don't come around that often. The Saints had how many losing seasons with Brees under center? Chargers? How many times have the Steelers made it to the Super Bowl with Roethlisberger?