Our last 5 drafts....

[Jville]

can't wait to see how many draft picks we get for an AVERAGE (at best) GM

Ya might want to catch up with current events on that subject.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

You build us a team that wins a super bowl, your elite in my book.

Our 1st pick 2013, #62. In 2014, #45. In 2015 #63. How many new guys where making this team in 13,14, and 15?

If you're going to trade down for more picks and sacrifice first-round talent, you'd better be able to get good depth with those picks you obtain. Seattle didn't. Like, at all.

2013 I kinda understand because it was a bad draft. But we got NO depth out of that, and it caught up to us in 2016 and 2017.

 

[AgentDib]

Our recent drafts have definitely not been as good as 2010-2012. Then again, i'm doubtful if you could find a better three year window in the history of the NFL. If the goal of this exercise is to take stock in our drafting proficiency then it's important to look past both the good and bad outcomes and evaluate each decision individually. Good gambles regularly fail to pay out while bad gambles often succeed anyhow.

Some of the recent players you have marked as busts are premature, specifically Ifedi and McDowell. You mark Britt as a success, but opinions were just as negative on him after his second season as they are on Ifedi now. The 2016 class could still be either an A or an F and we'll learn a lot more about it this upcoming year.

One factor that is overlooked here is that it is difficult to develop youth when you already have talent. There are only 46 active roster spots on game days and nothing compares to experience in actual NFL games. The only place where we have been throwing inexperience to the NFL wolves lately has been on O-Line and that hasn't worked out super well.

 

[mrt144]

Where the 2014-2015 drafts really failed was their total lack of depth. You have to find SOME workable depth in your drafts. Those drafts gave us a couple of starters each - in some cases very good ones (Frank Clark) - but then dropped off entirely after that. That's what's rough. Most of them never even saw the field. Some of that might actually have been because the guys ahead of them were just ridiculously good, so in a sense, the 2010-2012 drafts might have partially blocked the emergence of later drafts. But in the majority of cases, they were just really bad players. Three guys from 2015 didn't even last the season.

This so much. You can even see this with Vannett despite JFG and Luke Willson not balling to nearly the degree the sum of their talents could or should provide. A 3rd rounder getting limited opportunities to shine because it's hard to justify his playing time over a Pro Bowl calibre TE and a long tenured backup who has flashed utility seldom but strikingly (Tell me those seam routes against AZ's LBs a couple years back weren't just malicious on his part). So the fan base at the very least will write off the draft pick but don't integrate the log jam ahead of them into the reason why.

And despite the always compete mantra, the hawks totally play favorites with certain players, mostly under Tom Cable.

 

[Jville]

Last year, I recall John Schneider expressing regret over the number of player agents looking to other less competitive rosters as destinations for represented clients.

I suspect that will change considerably this year.

The route for talent acquisition varies from year to year.

 

[Tinymac2]

You build us a team that wins a super bowl, your elite in my book.

Our 1st pick 2013, #62. In 2014, #45. In 2015 #63. How many new guys where making this team in 13,14, and 15?

If you're going to trade down for more picks and sacrifice first-round talent, you'd better be able to get good depth with those picks you obtain. Seattle didn't. Like, at all.

2013 I kinda understand because it was a bad draft. But we got NO depth out of that, and it caught up to us in 2016 and 2017.

Agree. Not a huge trade down guy. I think, but I'm not sure, we traded those picks. Possible Harvin and Graham? My point was just to give context as where we picked.

 

[mrt144]

Last year, I recall John Schneider expressing regret over the number of player agents looking to other less competitive rosters as destinations for represented clients.

I suspect that will change considerably this year.

The route for talent acquisition varies from year to year.

If I were an agent and I saw how non drafted talent performed under PC, I'd be wary too. Unless my client is a DL - they've been pretty good about slotting that in from FA - Avril, Bennett, and now Dion Jordan looking like a nice value.

 

[chris98251]

Britt was a bust draft pick, he could not play Guard or Tackle which was the reason for the pick, he was salvaged when we made the Graham trade to play Center and it worked out wonderfully for him and the Seahawks. We can do the same thing at Linebacker and the D line as well move a player to a position that he can adapt and fit in with in our system.

CB's it gets harder, WR's other then Sherman more difficult yet and then RB is almost impossible unless they can bulk up to FB. Even then they have to have the desire to block and not get the ball as often. Mike Rob was one of the hits and exceptions in conversion from QB to FB. McEvoy going from QB to Safety, to WR is another whom I think is still learning nuances of the positions such as route running and blocking out defenders.

It's a big reason Skill position players are not taken high by us, hard to get a return if they don't work out because you can't move them hardly to another position. Easier to cherry pick a F.A. that is stuck behind in depth or a dog house player.

 

[Jville]

You build us a team that wins a super bowl, your elite in my book.

Our 1st pick 2013, #62. In 2014, #45. In 2015 #63. How many new guys where making this team in 13,14, and 15?

If you're going to trade down for more picks and sacrifice first-round talent, you'd better be able to get good depth with those picks you obtain. Seattle didn't. Like, at all.

2013 I kinda understand because it was a bad draft. But we got NO depth out of that, and it caught up to us in 2016 and 2017.

Agree. Not a huge trade down guy. I think, but I'm not sure, we traded those picks. Possible Harvin and Graham? My point was just to give context as where we picked.

Minimizing the dollar amounts of guaranteed rookie contracts has been a theme. That and trading down for more picks reinforces the mechanism of competition.

 

[Bigpumpkin]

Bottom line.....John and Pete "need" to be able to determine who is "injury prone". Our SB year was nearly injury free.
This past year was a physical disaster. Good players have to stay healthy....period! When they get "long in the tooth".....they are more likely to be injured or reinjured......period. Most of the intelligent posters on this Board can tell us what positions need to be filled in the Draft....since we have little cap space left for FA's. This year has to be successful in the Draft or we might well be branded Cleveland II....with four or less wins.

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

I think you are ignoring the big trades involved in these drafts too. Percy and Jimmy. I don't think anyone will say those trades worked out, but giving up your 1st rd pick in 2 drafts is a big loss if you aren't getting something out of it.

 

[mrt144]

I think you are ignoring the big trades involved in these drafts too. Percy and Jimmy. I don't think anyone will say those trades worked out, but giving up your 1st rd pick in 2 drafts is a big loss if you aren't getting something out of it.

Especially with salary factored

 

[AgentDib]

Bottom line.....John and Pete "need" to be able to determine who is "injury prone". Our SB year was nearly injury free. This past year was a physical disaster. Good players have to stay healthy....period!

You're not wrong, but often injuries are an external factor outside of anybody's control. Anybody can get hurt if they get rolled up on or hit too high or too low.

I've seen four or five posts just over the last week of fans lamenting the loss of James Carpenter, who had season ending injury after season ending injury with us but then has gone on to stay relatively healthy after leaving. Meanwhile Jimmy Graham's impact here was majorly hindered by injury when up until that point he had been remarkably healthy over his career. There's simply a large random factor that underlies NFL injury outcomes.

It's important for players and coaches need to discount the role of injury and embody the next man up philosophy because that gives them the best chance of winning the next game. For some reasons fans tend to get sucked into that vortex as well, however, and that leads to a bunch of silly fan superstition and nonsense about not making excuses for injuries. In reality, it's one of the major factors behind roster strength every year and it's mostly random.

 

[Steve2222]

Jordan Hill was an injury bust. He had a bright future but career derailed with injury. Also, Spencer Ware is a pretty good back who unfortunately got hurt for KC preseason against us.

 

[xgeoff]

Potentially losing JS had me thinking about our last few drafts. I didn't realize how bad they have Ben and why we may be on a downhill slide. A lot more misses than anything especially at o line. I denoted a pass for most of this years class for a wait and see. Here is the last 5 yrs....


2017

Malik McDowell-looks like a BUST. Huge character issues regardless.
Ethan Pocic- pass
Nazair Jones- looked good to me
Shaquill Griffin- gonna be a good one
Delano Hill- pass
Amara Darboh- pass
Tedric Thompson- pass
Mike Tyson- pass
Justin Senior- who?
David Moore- pass
Chris Carson- looked like he might be our next Shaun. Maybe

2016

Germain Ifedi- huge BUST
Jarran Reed- looks okay
C.J. Prosise- injury BUST
Nick Vannett- guess we will see next year
Rees Odhiambo- back up plug
Quinton Jefferson- seems to be hurt a lot
Alex Collins- gone...now looks good..
Joey Hunt- no thanks
Kenny Lawler- someone give this guy a burger to eat.
Zac Brooks- gone

2015

Frank Clark- good and will get better
Tyler Lockett- injury slowed him.back on track
Terry Poole- who?
Mark Glowinski- back up plug
Tye Smith- he still around?
Obum Gwacham- who?
Kristjan Sokoli- gone
Ryan Murphy- who?

2014

Paul Richardson- lots of injuries. Now looks good but gone in the off season.
Justin Britt- one of the only decent ol picks.
Cassius Marsh- terrible
Kevin Norwood- just not good
Kevin Pierre-Louis- fizzled out
Jimmy Staten- who?
Garrett Scott- who?
Eric Pinkins- never did much
Kiero Small- pre season hero

2013

Christine Michael- BUST
Jordan Hill-BUST
Chris Harper - BUST
Jesse williams- health issues
Tharold Simon- garbage
Luke Wilson- best pick in this class.
Spencer Ware- character issue then got good
Ryan Seymour- who?
Ty Powell- who?
Jared Smith- who?
Michael Bowtie- was better than other picks at ol.

I mostly agree with you. There are just a couple of items:

-- David Moore WR, I don't know if this kid will get a chance but I thought he looked really good in preseason! I'm not ready to pass on him yet.
-- Kevin Pierre-Louis LB, I didn't think he was very good here. One of the worst tacklers I've ever seen. But he starts now for the Chiefs.
-- Tye Smith CB, I didn't think he looked good when he was with us, but he now plays for the Titans.

 

[xgeoff]

Britt was a bust draft pick, he could not play Guard or Tackle which was the reason for the pick, he was salvaged when we made the Graham trade to play Center and it worked out wonderfully for him and the Seahawks. We can do the same thing at Linebacker and the D line as well move a player to a position that he can adapt and fit in with in our system.

I agree with you about Britt but you can't just assume that you can move guys to LB or D-line and they will excel. I mean, it's not unusual, Bruce Irvin was *much* better at LB than DE. I just don't think that you can assume that you can do that.

Frankly, it would probably happen more often if coaches thought outside the box more, but the NFL is a copycat league and people buy into ridiculous patterns.

For example, John Clayton (who says a lot of dumb shit) said he thinks Sam Darnold will be more successful than Josh Rosen because he has more of a prototype build.

 

[nanomoz]

Your overall point isn't without merit, but some of your comments are off, in my opinion. Schneid and Pete won't match those first couple drafts. The Harvin trade doesn't reflect great. The Jimmy Trade was arguable. I didn't like it then, but it started to pay off this season.

Joey Hunt has stuck around, wasn't he the highest-rated center in the preseason? Or something like that?

Jarran Reed looks excellent, not okay.

Jordan Hill looked like a great rotational three technique for a while. Injuries seemed to play a big part.

Tye Smith was a steady special teams presence on Tennessee this season. He might stick.

Ifedi might not be great, but he's started pretty much every game. We were similarly down on Justin Britt after two years; one at tackle and one at guard. "Huge BUST" is maybe a bit of an overstatement this early.

Rees Odihambo will probably be in the thick of competition this next season. He could pan out at guard.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Bottom line.....John and Pete "need" to be able to determine who is "injury prone". Our SB year was nearly injury free. This past year was a physical disaster. Good players have to stay healthy....period!

You're not wrong, but often injuries are an external factor outside of anybody's control. Anybody can get hurt if they get rolled up on or hit too high or too low.

I've seen four or five posts just over the last week of fans lamenting the loss of James Carpenter, who had season ending injury after season ending injury with us but then has gone on to stay relatively healthy after leaving. Meanwhile Jimmy Graham's impact here was majorly hindered by injury when up until that point he had been remarkably healthy over his career. There's simply a large random factor that underlies NFL injury outcomes.

It's important for players and coaches need to discount the role of injury and embody the next man up philosophy because that gives them the best chance of winning the next game. For some reasons fans tend to get sucked into that vortex as well, however, and that leads to a bunch of silly fan superstition and nonsense about not making excuses for injuries. In reality, it's one of the major factors behind roster strength every year and it's mostly random.

Except for Prosise. Anyone familiar with his college history knew that drafting him was a gamble.

 

[themunn]

I'd say that our drafts compare favourably to the Packers and Patriots - the only other 2 teams in the league that made the playoffs in every one of the years prior to those 5 drafts.

Interesting to see how we do with a mid-round pick - I suspect we'll trade down but shouldn't be significantly worse off than we were in previous years, and if in a year or two we look back at our 2018 draft and say we get a couple of quality starters, plus Richardson and Brown, all of a sudden it looks a quality draft.

 

[gowazzu02]

Interesting when you see it written down.

But I would challenge anyone who is complaining about PC/JS. to go chart the first round of those drafts and do the same bust/good pick/great pick challenge. If thats too much work just do the top 10......the result you will find is that its a freaking crap shoot. And JS/PC hit on average more then most add on top the great classes and were in the playoffs alot. with 2 trips and 1 ship