Our defense problems, drafting, coaching, or execution?

[toffee]

Our defense has been sub standard for a few years, as @Fade has been highlighting. What's the root cause? Drafting? Coaching? or just players failed to execute?

Drafting, we didn't hit any homeruns when it came to drafting defense players before 2022, Collier highlights the problem over a long drought.
Coaching, Pete built an all time defense, but for the past 4, 5 years, our defense just gotten worse.
Players, we just got undisciplined guys?

Pete has to take ultimate responsibility as he has a hand in drafting and coaching, right?

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Completely right Toffee. This Issue has been going on since, charitably,2017. Pete is the only static fact

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Football failures is always all of the above, but if we're assigning pieces of the blame pie I'd go with;

- 80% talent deficiency
- 10% coaching
- 10% in game adjustments

I only see two players on the defense playing at what I'd consider an above average level, Nwousu and Woolen. Even Brooks has fallen off the past month, probably because he's being ran over 40 times a game. The rest of the defensive roster is full of average to below average players. Especially on the front seven. Which is where you win stopping the run.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

A deep dive into the players are why Seattle grade certain players the way they do.

LJ Collier.

Prime example.

I watched film on Collier at TCU and literally nothing caught my attention.

His speed wasn’t there, his hand placement and pass rush moves was not diverse, I could not find reason to believe Collier was a great pick.

I don’t know what Seattle scouts saw but I saw at best a round 6 to undrafted player in Collier.

However, Seattle, is trusting their scouts and what they see and that seem to be a huge problem.

If a team scout loves a certain prospect, that process of evaluation needs to be critiqued by at least three or five more sets of eyes.

Collier was such a bad pick that Seattle still feels that wasted pick.

This seems to be a systematic problem from the Head Coach down to Director of Scouting, Scouts and Assistant Scouts.

Whoever is watching film of a prospect needs to have more than one set of eyes “sign off” that the particular player is worthy of being on the team.

LJ Collier was a failure from the top of the organization down.

Easy to say but man, a revision of the process of evaluating players is much needed and has been.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Easy to say but man, a revision of the process of evaluating players is much needed and has been.

From what I've read, Pete has given up a little more control over the scouting/talent evaluation and drafting to the scouting department and Schneider.

Probably why this years draft looked DRASTICALLY different than the previous 4-5 below average drafts.

To me Collier was always about Pete trying to find another Mikey B versatile d-lineman who could play anywhere on the line. Obviously a big ol' swing and miss.

 

[GeekHawk]

I vote for the strength and conditioning coach. These guys don't have strong enough legs compared to other teams, and the grip strength on tackles resembles my retirement-age self instead of professional football players. Every time there's a scrum when trying to get a ball carrier down, they seem to carry at least 4 of our guys for an additional 6 yards. WTH!

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

From what I've read, Pete has given up a little more control over the scouting/talent evaluation and drafting to the scouting department and Schneider.

Probably why this years draft looked DRASTICALLY different than the previous 4-5 below average drafts.

To me Collier was always about Pete trying to find another Mikey B versatile d-lineman who could play anywhere on the line. Obviously a big ol' swing and miss.

Yeah, the Malik McDowell, was also an attempt to find a successor to Bennett as well.

My issue with McDowell was the interviews I watched him on raised red flags with me.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

To me, this is 90 percent on coaching, going back to some emotion driven decisions. Like Jamal Adams contact. Like Lj Collier. Going back to when we drafted and advanced Shaquem Griffin artifically on our depth chart.

I

 

[Hockey Guy]

It has to be execution since the defense improved so drastically during the 2020 season as well as the 4 game stretch this season. It even looks somewhat passable during parts of the 2021 season too so execution/personnel is the problem.

I know this doesn't fit the narrative that we should fire Pete Carroll but whatever, I just think the last couple seasons the offense was hanging the defense out to dry with all the 3 & outs & ineptitude but this season the offense is doing their job & the defense just can't get off the field & that's totally on them.

We need to spend almost all our draft resources in the off-season on fixing the defense, especially the run defense, that much is clear to everybody. If it doesn't get fixed this off-season then we have to seriously look at coaching changes but not before IMO.

 

[mrblitz]

i'm in the school of thought where these nfl athletes are all on a similar level. yes, there are better players and worse players, but the really important stuff is in the planning/execution.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Our ability to draft D-Lineman has been a huge issue. Outside of Reed and Clark our lineman have been really bad over the years. Ford has some splashes here and there but was never consistent. Reed and Clark themselves were always very hit or miss with us depending on thee game. We've had some huge whiffs on defensive line talent.

Schematically I think there was also an issue. I remember reading that the Seahawks ran more base defense than any other team until this year. Most teams were moving fronts throughout the game, but the Seahawks were using their base more than anyone else.

The Seahawks have been really decent at identifying secondary players, but even there we've had a huge lag until we picked up on Woolen. Jamal Adams was a huge miss, even when healthy it seemed we often didn't know how to use him. Diggs and Griffin were good finds. Flowers was a miss, but even still they switched his role in Cinci and he's doing good.

We've also been doing nothing but internal hires for DC too which I think is a problem. Richards and Hurtt had no DC experience, Hurtt in particular was in charge of the most consistently underperforming unit on the team. Norton Jr. had DC experience but was absolutely dreadful for the year he did it before he ended up back on the Seahawks.

Despite building one of the best defenses of all time, I think it is fair to start questioning Carroll on the defense and the direction of the defense. We've been trying to rebuild it since 2018 now. We can't blame that on Wilson when other teams are paying stupid money for QB's and are still able to field a competent defense.

 

[toffee]

To me, this is 90 percent on coaching, going back to some emotion driven decisions. Like Jamal Adams contact. Like Lj Collier. Going back to when we drafted and advanced Shaquem Griffin artifically on our depth chart.

I

I am leaning towards coach 50%, drafting 30%, and execution 20%

 

[pittpnthrs]

It has to be execution since the defense improved so drastically during the 2020 season as well as the 4 game stretch this season. It even looks somewhat passable during parts of the 2021 season too so execution/personnel is the problem.

It improved because of the Dunlap signing. A legit pass rusher that the defense was sadly lacking and a piece the FO didnt draft for. 2021 the defense was awful until Dunlap finally went to the coaches and told them they werent using him right. Afterwards they actually listened and bang,,,,the defense improved a lot.

This is a coaching problem

 

[Seak]

Our defense has been sub standard for a few years, as @Fade has been highlighting. What's the root cause? Drafting? Coaching? or just players failed to execute?

Drafting, we didn't hit any homeruns when it came to drafting defense players before 2022, Collier highlights the problem over a long drought.
Coaching, Pete built an all time defense, but for the past 4, 5 years, our defense just gotten worse.
Players, we just got undisciplined guys?

Pete has to take ultimate responsibility as he has a hand in drafting and coaching, right?

Draft Defense next year ( I hope) then we will know what the real problem is. Talent or coaching

 

[hgwellz12]

Im not a huge X O guy in the least, but the scheme seems off to me in the sense that players are consistently out of position and end up almost looking like they are all freelancing. I am inclined to put that on coaching (Hurtt/Pete it really doesn't matter, but it ultimately falls on PC). As well, the tackling and blockshedding has taken a visibly drastic hit. I put that on coaching and players equally, only because we USED TO BE the Gold Standard in tackling during our SB runs and it was attributed to Pete. I just don't get it. Cats are out there straight loafing, knowing that they're looking for extensions. This offseason is gonna be a real come to Jesus moment.

 

[Seak]

Im not a huge X O guy in the least, but the scheme seems off to me in the sense that players are consistently out of position and end up almost looking like they are all freelancing. I am inclined to put that on coaching (Hurtt/Pete it really doesn't matter, but it ultimately falls on PC). As well, the tackling and blockshedding has taken a visibly drastic hit. I put that on coaching and players equally, only because we USED TO BE the Gold Standard in tackling during our SB runs and it was attributed to Pete. I just don't get it. Cats are out there straight loafing, knowing that they're looking for extensions. This offseason is gonna be a real come to Jesus moment.

The tackling is brutal to watch and hard to stomach but
When I watch other games though there is lots of missed tackles as well, I just don't notice it as much I think.
That being said, when a team runs on 3'rd and 10 and gets a first down plus some..... ouch slap in the face

 

[hgwellz12]

The tackling is brutal to watch and hard to stomach but
When I watch other games though there is lots of missed tackles as well, I just don't notice it as much I think.
That being said, when a team runs on 3'rd and 10 and gets a first down plus some..... ouch slap in the face

Yeah, you could be right

 

[Seak]

Yeah, you could be right

next year my friend, were on the same page

 

[Spin Doctor]

It's all of the above. Clint Hurtt, Carroll and Schneider deserve a lot of blame for the D-Line failures over years. We've struggled to develop talent here for the longest time. Collier, Mone, and Ford may as well not even be on the field. They're like traffic cones out there. Our only two competent lineman are Al Woods and Shelby Harris. Everyone else has been a net negative. We've spent a lot of draft capital for not a lot of return at this position.

Schematically there are also some huge issues. I'm seeing a lot of 2-4-5 in situations where teams are looking to run the ball. This means we're using a front with 2 down lineman and 4 linebackers and 5 defensive backs. This scheme relies on the linebackers to shoot the gaps and take the runner down should the other team run. Cody Barton and Brooks are not really good at playing down hill, shooting the gaps and shedding tackles.

This front also is not ideal to use when teams are looking to run it down your gut. We're putting our guys in really poor situations. Barton is awful at reading the play and Brooks diagnoses things properly but is easy to wash out of the play.

For the most part we're selling out to stop the pass is what this amounts to. I'm not sure why Carroll and Hurtt are deciding to run these sorts of fronts consistently.

The defense just keeps shooting itself in the foot. Hurtt is not putting his players in a position to succeed and his unit, the D-Line is devoid of talent. I really don't understand why Carroll gave this guy a promotion in the first place. He's certainly doing some questionable things.

 

[seabowl]

Yes, yes and yes to all three