NO!!! Say it ain't so Jim ....... Tomsula

[Marvin49]

It's a simplistic comparison, but I get a Jim Mora vibe from Tomsula.

I won't be surprised if the Niners eke out 8 wins on Kaepernick's legs, should they actually use them as weapons. I also will not be stunned if they lose 11, or more. The O-line has question marks, the secondary is a bit of a question mark, and they lost a lot of soul this year. Smith, Willis...How do you replace that? Yeah, Harbs was an ass, but how do you replace his in game instincts?

All of those things hurt, but what will truly devastate the 49ers next season will be their inability to run the football. They lost one of the very best run blocking guards in the NFL to FA, and also one of the best run blocking right tackles to retirement. They lost Frank Gore too. And Carlos Hyde has people concerned that he might be injury prone. They lost Harbaugh/Roman and all the creative OL package creativity that helped them dominate in the running game.

This is especially troubling when you consider that Baalke and York have answered almost every press conference question with 'run the ball.'

The insistence on running the ball, despite having precious little ability to do it (outside of Kaepernick), will remind us of the Greg Knapp days. I'm expecting a bottom five offense for SF in 2015.

RE: All the retirements. You get the feeling that the team has quit on Tomsula before his tenure has even begun. I've never seen a team that quit on their coach and could run the football.

Way to sum up what I think. Ultimately, the team quit on Mora. Naysayers said you can't fire a coach after one year, give Mora a chance, and saying the team quit on him was a guaranteed fight, but enough of them did that it was embarrassing to watch. Pete saw it too, the guys he got rid of the next year were pretty much all the go through the motions quitters. Tomsula talks pretty big about all the things the Niners are going to do, as did Mora, but he was part of the staff that had players go through the motions last year as the season wound down, as was Mora, and all the big talk meant nothing. I half expect Tomsula to drop more dirtbags into a rant.

How they run scheme is one of the things that has me curious. The Niners are a must watch for me this year just because I am so interested in how they run scheme without Roman/Harbaugh. I know Solari got some credit for what happened there, but the unusual formations, alignments, and tight splits the Niners ran messed with teams that didn't play them often, just like it used to when facing Stanford. And a healthy Iupati is a run blocking force, the guy could pull with a TE and open a lane a truck could drive through. I understand why Marvin wants to drink the koolaid, season tickets feel damn expensive if you are certain your team sucks, but thinking that team got better requires bending logic to hope.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying "They got better". I'm saying it isn't outside the realm of possibility that they could be a better TEAM than they were LAST YEAR. While you may think that's overly hopeful, I'm not making a definitive statement there. I see all the talent leaving the team, but a team is more than just a collection of talent.

In terms of what yer saying about the running game, you could very easily be correct. The problem I see though is that the running game that was so efficient in Harbaugh/Roman first few years really stalled out last year. They had issues along the line with Iupati stuggling coming back from broken ankle, Boone struggling because of the holdout, Davis out a large chunk of the year because of injury (and replaced by Jonathan Martin...a double whammy), and losing both of their centers in the course of the season.

More than all of that though, the unpredictable running scheme that had been so effective was no longer unpredictable. As Roman said many times last year, teams were no longer responding the way they expected them to.

This IMO is one of the reasons they let Harbaugh go....he was married to Roman and never would have moved away from those schemes. Its why they are moving to more of a ZBS and why they hired Chris Foerster as their O-Line coach. I'm not saying here that this will be a huge success or anything, simply explaining why I think they are doing what they are doing.

IF (big if) it works and they can successfully implement the ZBS with a line that still includes Staley, Boone, and Kilgore and add a Brandon Thomas and maybe even an Evan Mathis, then I think Carlos Hyde might thrive in that system.

There are a lot of ifs here. No sugar-coat. Could be a disaster, especially early. I just don't think it's a foregone conclusion.

On defense....jeez....no way around losing Justin. That's a big hole to fill. As for Willis and Borland tho....Willis missed most of the year LAST year. Bowman missed the ENTIRE year. Aldon missed 9 games. With all of the injuries and suspensions, they still mustered the 5th ranked D in the NFL.

Even without Willis and Borland, it looks right now that the LB corps that will start on Monday Night vs the Vikings in week 1 will be better than the one in Dallas week 1 this year.

vs Dallas: Brooks - Willis - Wilhoite - Skuta

vs Minn: Brooks - Wilhoite - Bowman - Smith

The secondary will replace only one player. Culliver.

The D-Line and the DC are the biggest question marks.

 

[lvnginhwktwn]

Hey, Marv, that's a picture of Steve Kerr. Notice anything about it? *cough*SHIRT*cough*

Who cares? He won the Dubs a title, I couldn't care less what football team he likes.

X2

 

[hawknation2015]

Hey, Marv, that's a picture of Steve Kerr. Notice anything about it? *cough*SHIRT*cough*

Who cares? He won the Dubs a title, I couldn't care less what football team he likes.

Not the Whiners. :stirthepot:

 

[kearly]

I know Solari got some credit for what happened there, but the unusual formations, alignments, and tight splits the Niners ran messed with teams that didn't play them often, just like it used to when facing Stanford.

Mora's OL coach was none other than Mike Solari.

 

[ringless]

Gotta love the offseason... As a Cardinal fan I know a lot about losing, and a lot about being beaten. There isn't a team in the league that doesnt have somewhat of a talented roster and some excitement to come with it. I remember in our darker years, even those years were exciting. Because its easy to overestimate the good qualities in your team. Its why I still watched. The fact that we got to start every year with a fresh slate, and new players. A lot of 49ers fans are in the same boat I spent most of my fandom in. Denial... Like a loved one that goes back to their abuser (as 49er fans are to Jed York) knowing this season will be different.. This time is different. Jed has changed. He has promised us a good season. The reality will hit, and next off-season the cycle will start again. Next off-season will be another one of believing. Another one with a fresh influx of talent... And again, darkness will rear it's ugly head. I get it... I've been guilty of it myself... Welcome back

 

[SF49r]

Hey, Marv, that's a picture of Steve Kerr. Notice anything about it? *cough*SHIRT*cough*

Gives me another reason to hate the warriors... go kings!!

 

[rideaducati]

Gotta love the offseason... As a Cardinal fan I know a lot about losing, and a lot about being beaten. There isn't a team in the league that doesnt have somewhat of a talented roster and some excitement to come with it. I remember in our darker years, even those years were exciting. Because its easy to overestimate the good qualities in your team. Its why I still watched. The fact that we got to start every year with a fresh slate, and new players. A lot of 49ers fans are in the same boat I spent most of my fandom in. Denial... Like a loved one that goes back to their abuser (as 49er fans are to Jed York) knowing this season will be different.. This time is different. Jed has changed. He has promised us a good season. The reality will hit, and next off-season the cycle will start again. Next off-season will be another one of believing. Another one with a fresh influx of talent... And again, darkness will rear it's ugly head. I get it... I've been guilty of it myself... Welcome back

The cards aren't going to be very good this year either, so you'll be getting more enjoyment watching the niner train wreck than watching your team this year. Carry on. :stirthepot:

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

Tomfoola©: Having a coaching philosophy is "stupid to me."

I'm surely not going to have the audacity to tell you how things are supposed to be done when we haven't even played a game yet. So we're doing it the best way we know how to do it, we're working our tails off doing it that way, and very optimistic that the results will be where we want them to be. But we're not going to stand here and tell you how it is, or tell anybody else how it is. I mean that's stupid to me.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2015/6/13/8 ... 1433406430

Meanwhile, niner fans are eating it up. They seem to actually believe in the guy, read the comments section. They all seem to have jumped on the bandwagon in 2011 and act as if last year was as bad as it will ever get. Boy are they in for a reality check.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted Mike Shanahan. But Tomsula has a couple things going for him.

1. He knows his limits and isn't stubborn (anti-Harbaugh there).

2. He knows how to isolate team weaknesses and attacks them directly (Pushed hard for Torrey Smith, addressing offensive speed for the first time in a decade; immediately emphasized getting the ball off in practice-delay penalties have plagued the team since Harbaugh arrived; benched Troy Smith for Alex Smith the second Singletary was fired, etc.)

3. Players love him. Even players on other teams (see Dockett when he was a Cardinal, for example).



His weaknesses? We don't know how he'll game plan, how he'll manage a game, etc. Those are HUGE unknowns. If he's at least average there, he will be a coach that leads his team to the playoffs once every couple of years. If he's terrible at those, he'll be out of a job in two years.

Still want Shanahan if he does get fired though.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Tomfoola©: Having a coaching philosophy is "stupid to me."

I'm surely not going to have the audacity to tell you how things are supposed to be done when we haven't even played a game yet. So we're doing it the best way we know how to do it, we're working our tails off doing it that way, and very optimistic that the results will be where we want them to be. But we're not going to stand here and tell you how it is, or tell anybody else how it is. I mean that's stupid to me.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2015/6/13/8 ... 1433406430

Meanwhile, niner fans are eating it up. They seem to actually believe in the guy, read the comments section. They all seem to have jumped on the bandwagon in 2011 and act as if last year was as bad as it will ever get. Boy are they in for a reality check.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted Mike Shanahan. But Tomsula has a couple things going for him.

1. He knows his limits and isn't stubborn (anti-Harbaugh there).

2. He knows how to isolate team weaknesses and attacks them directly (Pushed hard for Torrey Smith, addressing offensive speed for the first time in a decade; immediately emphasized getting the ball off in practice-delay penalties have plagued the team since Harbaugh arrived; benched Troy Smith for Alex Smith the second Singletary was fired, etc.)

3. Players love him. Even players on other teams (see Dockett when he was a Cardinal, for example).



His weaknesses? We don't know how he'll game plan, how he'll manage a game, etc. Those are HUGE unknowns. If he's at least average there, he will be a coach that leads his team to the playoffs once every couple of years. If he's terrible at those, he'll be out of a job in two years.

Still want Shanahan if he does get fired though.

You wanted Shanny????? Damn! He probably wouldn't be the yes man that JimTom will be to TB and Jedthro but outside of coaching old horse face in Denver, he's been mediocre at best. More power to ya though! 8)

 

[irocdave]

Good points all around. Kerr wearing a Hawks T shirt is pure gold. All that aside, looking at the niners from the outside, and rival glasses off, they just appear to be a disaster waiting to happen. As a life long Seattle sports fan I have seen this same scenario so many times it has become predictable. To find the "right guy" to run a professional franchise is one of the most difficult things in business. It starts with that, having the right guy then trickles down throughout the organization. That "guy" has to have the knowledge to base the plan off of, personal attributes to communicate the plan he devised, the skill set and knowledge to make a plan that work, and the tenacity to make the hard choices and hold people accountable. The ownership has to have the same rare ability and trust in "that guy" and to know when it isn't going to work and make a change.

I see the niners being bottom feeders for 3 - 5 years, lucky to win more than they lose each year. Players coaches only work for a short period of time and only work with a core group of solid, outspoken veterans. I don't see that in ninerville. I despised Harbaugh for his arrogance, but he was a good coach who demanded respect and didn't put up with questioning of his authority. I don't see that happening with Tomsula or the owner.

 

[RichNhansom]

It is going to be interesting that is for sure.

Some of the things I expect to see are struggles in the running game and pass protection. The O-line didn't just lose two very good players it also is switching to a Zone blocking scheme and that will take some time to gel. Kilgore may or may not do well in that system and the center is critical for it to work but you also don't really know how any of your players on the line will do including Staley because he has never played in that type of scheme. Hyde will not only be trying to prove he is an NFL caliber starting RB he will also be learning the ZBS and that took Lynch a year before he really started to excel in it.

I suspect the secondary will struggle. You didn't just lose Culliver you lost Cox also and he was your other starter. Brown and whoever wins the other spot along with Beathea and Read will also be playing behind a line without Smith and RayMac. The rooks may eventually become starter grade but again it likely won't be early on. LB's too will no longer be playing behind Cowboy and Raymac and the entire defense will be learning a new scheme as well.

Torrey Smith may have speed but it takes alot more than that to be successful and Keap won't have Harbaughs route trees. Not to mention enough time for Smith to get down field. Bush is a big question mark also. The Niners threw less times to RB's than any other team and that was directly related to Kaep's lack of touch. It would be surprising if they suddenly made the RB's a featured part of their receiving corp.

The coaching staff is up in the air and while the rumor might be the players love thrm you have to take that with a grain of salt. For example players said Harbaugh drove them to hard so is JimTom going easy on the guys? None of the coaches have a legitimate history that demands respect so it is safe to question if the players actually do or are just playing nice for now. There was a question last year about a leak in the coaching staff. Did that person get rewarded for his willingness to go behind Harbaugh's back to the FO? How about Mangini ratting out the Patriots for spygate? I know all circumstantial but it is open for question at least for now.

Could it all work out? Sure but it would be a true Cinderella story if it does. I'm more in line with the experts that really don't have high expectations.

 

[Sports Hernia]

I don't get the niner fans high expectations on JimTom.
He has been a head coach for 11 games, and only 1 of those in the NFL.
Pretty thin head coaching resume if you ask me.

 

[Ambrose83]

It's a simplistic comparison, but I get a Jim Mora vibe from Tomsula.

I won't be surprised if the Niners eke out 8 wins on Kaepernick's legs, should they actually use them as weapons. I also will not be stunned if they lose 11, or more. The O-line has question marks, the secondary is a bit of a question mark, and they lost a lot of soul this year. Smith, Willis...How do you replace that? Yeah, Harbs was an ass, but how do you replace his in game instincts?

All of those things hurt, but what will truly devastate the 49ers next season will be their inability to run the football. They lost one of the very best run blocking guards in the NFL to FA, and also one of the best run blocking right tackles to retirement. They lost Frank Gore too. And Carlos Hyde has people concerned that he might be injury prone. They lost Harbaugh/Roman and all the creative OL package creativity that helped them dominate in the running game.

This is especially troubling when you consider that Baalke and York have answered almost every press conference question with 'run the ball.'

The insistence on running the ball, despite having precious little ability to do it (outside of Kaepernick), will remind us of the Greg Knapp days. I'm expecting a bottom five offense for SF in 2015.

RE: All the retirements. You get the feeling that the team has quit on Tomsula before his tenure has even begun. I've never seen a team that quit on their coach and could run the football.

Way to sum up what I think. Ultimately, the team quit on Mora. Naysayers said you can't fire a coach after one year, give Mora a chance, and saying the team quit on him was a guaranteed fight, but enough of them did that it was embarrassing to watch. Pete saw it too, the guys he got rid of the next year were pretty much all the go through the motions quitters. Tomsula talks pretty big about all the things the Niners are going to do, as did Mora, but he was part of the staff that had players go through the motions last year as the season wound down, as was Mora, and all the big talk meant nothing. I half expect Tomsula to drop more dirtbags into a rant.

How they run scheme is one of the things that has me curious. The Niners are a must watch for me this year just because I am so interested in how they run scheme without Roman/Harbaugh. I know Solari got some credit for what happened there, but the unusual formations, alignments, and tight splits the Niners ran messed with teams that didn't play them often, just like it used to when facing Stanford. And a healthy Iupati is a run blocking force, the guy could pull with a TE and open a lane a truck could drive through. I understand why Marvin wants to drink the koolaid, season tickets feel damn expensive if you are certain your team sucks, but thinking that team got better requires bending logic to hope.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying "They got better". I'm saying it isn't outside the realm of possibility that they could be a better TEAM than they were LAST YEAR. While you may think that's overly hopeful, I'm not making a definitive statement there. I see all the talent leaving the team, but a team is more than just a collection of talent.

In terms of what yer saying about the running game, you could very easily be correct. The problem I see though is that the running game that was so efficient in Harbaugh/Roman first few years really stalled out last year. They had issues along the line with Iupati stuggling coming back from broken ankle, Boone struggling because of the holdout, Davis out a large chunk of the year because of injury (and replaced by Jonathan Martin...a double whammy), and losing both of their centers in the course of the season.

More than all of that though, the unpredictable running scheme that had been so effective was no longer unpredictable. As Roman said many times last year, teams were no longer responding the way they expected them to.

This IMO is one of the reasons they let Harbaugh go....he was married to Roman and never would have moved away from those schemes. Its why they are moving to more of a ZBS and why they hired Chris Foerster as their O-Line coach. I'm not saying here that this will be a huge success or anything, simply explaining why I think they are doing what they are doing.

IF (big if) it works and they can successfully implement the ZBS with a line that still includes Staley, Boone, and Kilgore and add a Brandon Thomas and maybe even an Evan Mathis, then I think Carlos Hyde might thrive in that system.

There are a lot of ifs here. No sugar-coat. Could be a disaster, especially early. I just don't think it's a foregone conclusion.

On defense....jeez....no way around losing Justin. That's a big hole to fill. As for Willis and Borland tho....Willis missed most of the year LAST year. Bowman missed the ENTIRE year. Aldon missed 9 games. With all of the injuries and suspensions, they still mustered the 5th ranked D in the NFL.

Even without Willis and Borland, it looks right now that the LB corps that will start on Monday Night vs the Vikings in week 1 will be better than the one in Dallas week 1 this year.

vs Dallas: Brooks - Willis - Wilhoite - Skuta

vs Minn: Brooks - Wilhoite - Bowman - Smith

The secondary will replace only one player. Culliver.

The D-Line and the DC are the biggest question marks.

YOU LOST ALOT OF TALENT, YOU HAVE A UNPROVEN COACH, YOU LOST A TON THIS OFFSEASON... REALITY WILL SET IN AROUND OCT FOR YOU.

 

[rideaducati]

I don't get the niner fans high expectations on JimTom.
He has been a head coach for 11 games, and only 1 of those in the NFL.
Pretty thin head coaching resume if you ask me.

It's the niner way. Remember when Singletary took over the last game of the season and how niner fans EXPECTED to dominate the following season? Even the niner players thought they DESERVED to win the division with their 6-10 record over the 7-9 Seahawks. It's a mentality that has been fostered by many many years of ignorance of anything outside the bay area. They have never been beaten by a better team, the other team was just lucky.

 

[hawknation2015]

I don't get the niner fans high expectations on JimTom.
He has been a head coach for 11 games, and only 1 of those in the NFL.
Pretty thin head coaching resume if you ask me.

It's the niner way. Remember when Singletary took over the last game of the season and how niner fans EXPECTED to dominate the following season? Even the niner players thought they DESERVED to win the division with their 6-10 record over the 7-9 Seahawks. It's a mentality that has been fostered by many many years of ignorance of anything outside the bay area. They have never been beaten by a better team, the other team was just lucky.

"'I told the team this is the last time our season ends in December,' Jed York said in announcing Singletary's hiring as permanent coach."

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Si ... 178967.php

LOL

 

[Marvin49]

I don't get the niner fans high expectations on JimTom.
He has been a head coach for 11 games, and only 1 of those in the NFL.
Pretty thin head coaching resume if you ask me.

It's the niner way. Remember when Singletary took over the last game of the season and how niner fans EXPECTED to dominate the following season? Even the niner players thought they DESERVED to win the division with their 6-10 record over the 7-9 Seahawks. It's a mentality that has been fostered by many many years of ignorance of anything outside the bay area. They have never been beaten by a better team, the other team was just lucky.

"'I told the team this is the last time our season ends in December,' Jed York said in announcing Singletary's hiring as permanent coach."

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Si ... 178967.php

LOL

Not quite sure why that's amusing considering they only had one more sub-500 season before making it to three straight NFC Championship games.

 

[Marvin49]

All of those things hurt, but what will truly devastate the 49ers next season will be their inability to run the football. They lost one of the very best run blocking guards in the NFL to FA, and also one of the best run blocking right tackles to retirement. They lost Frank Gore too. And Carlos Hyde has people concerned that he might be injury prone. They lost Harbaugh/Roman and all the creative OL package creativity that helped them dominate in the running game.

This is especially troubling when you consider that Baalke and York have answered almost every press conference question with 'run the ball.'

The insistence on running the ball, despite having precious little ability to do it (outside of Kaepernick), will remind us of the Greg Knapp days. I'm expecting a bottom five offense for SF in 2015.

RE: All the retirements. You get the feeling that the team has quit on Tomsula before his tenure has even begun. I've never seen a team that quit on their coach and could run the football.

Way to sum up what I think. Ultimately, the team quit on Mora. Naysayers said you can't fire a coach after one year, give Mora a chance, and saying the team quit on him was a guaranteed fight, but enough of them did that it was embarrassing to watch. Pete saw it too, the guys he got rid of the next year were pretty much all the go through the motions quitters. Tomsula talks pretty big about all the things the Niners are going to do, as did Mora, but he was part of the staff that had players go through the motions last year as the season wound down, as was Mora, and all the big talk meant nothing. I half expect Tomsula to drop more dirtbags into a rant.

How they run scheme is one of the things that has me curious. The Niners are a must watch for me this year just because I am so interested in how they run scheme without Roman/Harbaugh. I know Solari got some credit for what happened there, but the unusual formations, alignments, and tight splits the Niners ran messed with teams that didn't play them often, just like it used to when facing Stanford. And a healthy Iupati is a run blocking force, the guy could pull with a TE and open a lane a truck could drive through. I understand why Marvin wants to drink the koolaid, season tickets feel damn expensive if you are certain your team sucks, but thinking that team got better requires bending logic to hope.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying "They got better". I'm saying it isn't outside the realm of possibility that they could be a better TEAM than they were LAST YEAR. While you may think that's overly hopeful, I'm not making a definitive statement there. I see all the talent leaving the team, but a team is more than just a collection of talent.

In terms of what yer saying about the running game, you could very easily be correct. The problem I see though is that the running game that was so efficient in Harbaugh/Roman first few years really stalled out last year. They had issues along the line with Iupati stuggling coming back from broken ankle, Boone struggling because of the holdout, Davis out a large chunk of the year because of injury (and replaced by Jonathan Martin...a double whammy), and losing both of their centers in the course of the season.

More than all of that though, the unpredictable running scheme that had been so effective was no longer unpredictable. As Roman said many times last year, teams were no longer responding the way they expected them to.

This IMO is one of the reasons they let Harbaugh go....he was married to Roman and never would have moved away from those schemes. Its why they are moving to more of a ZBS and why they hired Chris Foerster as their O-Line coach. I'm not saying here that this will be a huge success or anything, simply explaining why I think they are doing what they are doing.

IF (big if) it works and they can successfully implement the ZBS with a line that still includes Staley, Boone, and Kilgore and add a Brandon Thomas and maybe even an Evan Mathis, then I think Carlos Hyde might thrive in that system.

There are a lot of ifs here. No sugar-coat. Could be a disaster, especially early. I just don't think it's a foregone conclusion.

On defense....jeez....no way around losing Justin. That's a big hole to fill. As for Willis and Borland tho....Willis missed most of the year LAST year. Bowman missed the ENTIRE year. Aldon missed 9 games. With all of the injuries and suspensions, they still mustered the 5th ranked D in the NFL.

Even without Willis and Borland, it looks right now that the LB corps that will start on Monday Night vs the Vikings in week 1 will be better than the one in Dallas week 1 this year.

vs Dallas: Brooks - Willis - Wilhoite - Skuta

vs Minn: Brooks - Wilhoite - Bowman - Smith

The secondary will replace only one player. Culliver.

The D-Line and the DC are the biggest question marks.

YOU LOST ALOT OF TALENT, YOU HAVE A UNPROVEN COACH, YOU LOST A TON THIS OFFSEASON... REALITY WILL SET IN AROUND OCT FOR YOU.

Teams aren't made up of players you lose. They are made up of players still on the team. They still get to play 11 on 11 and there is still a lot of talent on the team. I ain't making predictions, but I think the demise of the 49ers has been somewhat overstated.

We'll see soon though.

 

[Ambrose83]

Right, and when the players you lost were all vastly better then the ones you have.. deductive reasoning states a DECLINE, toss in a unproven coach, the worst offseason maybe in NFL history and oh wait.. you still have Kap at QB and honestly it does not look good. Should be a fun year, very few things make me happier in terms of football then the 9ers being awful.

 

[Marvin49]

Right, and when the players you lost were all vastly better then the ones you have.. deductive reasoning states a DECLINE, toss in a unproven coach, the worst offseason maybe in NFL history and oh wait.. you still have Kap at QB and honestly it does not look good. Should be a fun year, very few things make me happier in terms of football then the 9ers being awful.

But of course....

....but is Navorro Bowman vastly inferior to Patrick Willis? Is Torrey Smith vastly inferior to Michael Crabtree? Is Carlos Hyde vastly inferior to Frank Gore?

Is the combo of Quinton Dial and Tank Carradine vastly inferior to Justin Smith?

In order I'd say "no, no, maybe, probably". That doesn't mean that other players at other positions don't step up. That makes the team DIFFERENT. Not better. Not worse. DIFFERENT.

I think the common mistake is to simply look at names and assume that those guys were at the height of their powers so their loss is overly traumatic. Willis has been slowed by injury for 2 seasons and didn't even play most of last year. Justin Smith hasn't been the same for 2 seasons. Frank Gore has been slowing down for years. I know. I've read all about it right here on .net.

Aldon played 7 games last year. Bowman didn't play at all. That 2 huge pieces coming back that really were little or no factor at all last year. Niner lost Willis and Borland, but they played the same position last year. Bowman offsets that loss IF he's healthy. The other ILB Wilhoite started every game last year.

Iupati was a shadow of himself last year. He could be much better this year another year removed from his broken ankle, but he was never really going to be a good ZBS blocker anyway. Anthony Davis hurts. No way around it. Crabtree was never the same after the Achilles.

How the Niner depth and youth handles the changes on the O-Line and D-Line will be everything this year.

 

[Maulbert]

Right, and when the players you lost were all vastly better then the ones you have.. deductive reasoning states a DECLINE, toss in a unproven coach, the worst offseason maybe in NFL history and oh wait.. you still have Kap at QB and honestly it does not look good. Should be a fun year, very few things make me happier in terms of football then the 9ers being awful.

But of course....

....but is Navorro Bowman vastly inferior to Patrick Willis? Is Torrey Smith vastly inferior to Michael Crabtree? Is Carlos Hyde vastly inferior to Frank Gore?

Is the combo of Quinton Dial and Tank Carradine vastly inferior to Justin Smith?

In order I'd say "no, no, maybe, probably". That doesn't mean that other players at other positions don't step up. That makes the team DIFFERENT. Not better. Not worse. DIFFERENT.

I think the common mistake is to simply look at names and assume that those guys were at the height of their powers so their loss is overly traumatic. Willis has been slowed by injury for 2 seasons and didn't even play most of last year. Justin Smith hasn't been the same for 2 seasons. Frank Gore has been slowing down for years. I know. I've read all about it right here on .net.

Aldon played 7 games last year. Bowman didn't play at all. That 2 huge pieces coming back that really were little or no factor at all last year. Niner lost Willis and Borland, but they played the same position last year. Bowman offsets that loss IF he's healthy. The other ILB Wilhoite started every game last year.

Iupati was a shadow of himself last year. He could be much better this year another year removed from his broken ankle, but he was never really going to be a good ZBS blocker anyway. Anthony Davis hurts. No way around it. Crabtree was never the same after the Achilles.

How the Niner depth and youth handles the changes on the O-Line and D-Line will be everything this year.

You say Bowman is offsetting the loss of Willis and Borland, but that's just not true. While I won't deny Bowman might well be better than Willis was, he's not an addition, he's a return. If Bowman had been healthy last year, not a single 49er fan would be acting like he was a replacement for Willis. Also, that's assuming Bowman is back to 100 percent, a big if. That was a nasty injury he suffered, and he hasn't seen any real action in a year.

Also, my reaction to even comparing Carradine and Dial to Smith:



'Probably not' is the reaction of a truly delusional niner fan.