Mike Salk is such a hypocrite

[Hawknballs]

i mean what you just said, aside from the insults at the end, is all you really needed to contribute to the thread. Maybe try that next time.

 

[WarHawks]

Very few SB's are close, let alone that come down to the last 5 minutes tied with this many comebacks and lead changes. Most definitely was on it's way to being one of the greatest.

But hey, we don't have to worry about this debate. The ref took care of that.

Probably so. I guess the fact that I could care less who won took away the wow factor for me.

 

[Hawknballs]

I didn't care who won either. But if the ref doesn't throw the flag, we aren't talking about this because the narrative would be "yeah the ref could have called it but why decide the season that way when the ball was overthrown and not catchable anyways" and everyone moves on.
any superbowl where points are scored and it's tied up with only minutes to go is going to go down as a good game, and this would have if not for that call.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I didn't care who won either. But if the ref doesn't throw the flag, we aren't talking about this because the narrative would be "yeah the ref could have called it but why decide the season that way when the ball was overthrown and not catchable anyways" and everyone moves on.
any superbowl where points are scored and it's tied up with only minutes to go is going to go down as a good game, and this would have if not for that call.

It'd be just like most of the NFL games where one team's fans complain about non calls that are borderline.

That's far less of a story than actually throwing the flag for the kind of penalty like last night.

Nuance matters when it comes to the magnitude of the game and moment. It's why in every pro sports league around the world the refs allow more than in a normal game or match. Happens in the WC every time, the refs call far less penalties and give our less yellow and red cards.

Because they know they don't want that magnitude of match to be determined by a match changing call. Same in hockey, same in basketball, and should be the same in football. Wasn't last night. The ref decided to interject himself into the game at the wrong moment. The end.

 

[Hawknballs]

In some sports like hockey it's common knowledge and practice to let them play more towards the end of the year and let the small stuff go. People get it. The NFL needs to adopt something similar. And have full time refs.

 

[knownone]

Unfortunately, some of you are making a mountain out of a molehill. NFL officiating is imperfect and never will be perfect, and that was not an egregious call. Similarly, judgment calls are easy to second guess and hyper-analyze after the fact. There is nothing the NFL can do to remove that randomness from the game, barring scrutinizing every play through replay reviews, which is neither practical nor free from problems. So what's a solution to the problem that is free from platitudes and apples-to-oranges comparisons?

And look, I understand the complaints about the call ruining a good game. That's fair. But the officiating commentary just comes across as naive to human error and randomness.

 

[Torc]

I don't want officials deciding when to call or not call penalties based on the situation. If the ref saw a hold, he should call a hold. "Go ahead and do whatever you want in the last two minutes, guys, we won't call penalties." Yeah, not great IMO.

"Well it was overthrown." Sure. And those guys practice the timing of those passes hundreds of not thousands of times. Did the hold throw off the timing? Did Mahomes see the hold and threw an uncatchable ball to make sure there was no interception rather than a contested ball, figuring on getting the penalty? Maybe. The point is we don't know what would have happened if the CB hadn't held the receiver. But we do know (and he admitted!) that there was a hold.

Maybe it made the last 90 seconds a little less exciting. But it was the right call.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

And look, I understand the complaints about the call ruining a good game. That's fair. But the officiating commentary just comes across as naive to human error and randomness.

Of course it's human error, but the NFL has a "human error" problem, and that problem reared it's ugly head last night at the worst possible time.

We've talked about this millions of times on here as to why this is. Maybe don't have your multi-billion dollar sport ref'd by a bunch of half blind octogenarians who can neither keep up with the insane pace of play, nor the dozen new subjective rules every year because some owner was butthurt by the way his team lost in the playoffs the prior year.

 

[ivotuk]

Glad the Eagles head coach has his head on straight. Penalties are part of the game, and like Sirianni said, the referees have a tough job, and it was an easy call to make.

Hurts fumble returned for a touchdown.

The long run by a hobbled Mahomes

The longest Punt Return in Superbowl History

The Eagles defense unable to stop the Chiefs.

I would hate to see the screaming and hollering if the referee would have ignored that call. It was too blatant.

I don't understand why people are so bent out of shape. It was a really good game that the Eagles had plenty of chances to win, but they didn't take advantage of those chances, and gave the game away.


Eagles head coach Nick Sirianni said while fans might be bitter over the holding call, it wasn't what lost Philly the game.

"There's going to be questionable things that I do, or questionable things that [defensive coordinator Jonathan Gannon] does or [offensive coordinator Shane Steichen] does. Or Jalen (Hurts) does.

"We understand that. But it's never about one play. But they got to do a hard job in split-second decisions.

But it never comes down to one play. Even though at times it perceives to.

And that's the parity of this league that you can always think, 'Well it's just this play.' And that's just not the case.

There's however many plays that we had on offense.

There's however many plays the Chiefs had on offense.

And then there's all those special teams play, too.

Eagles CB James Bradberry on crucial third-down penalty: 'It was holding'

Eagles cornerback James Bradberry told reporters following Philadelphia's loss in Super Bowl LVII on Sunday that he held Chiefs wide receiver JuJu Smith-Schuster on a crucial third down in the fourth quarter.

www.nfl.com

 

[Year of The Hawk]

I don't want officials deciding when to call or not call penalties based on the situation. If the ref saw a hold, he should call a hold. "Go ahead and do whatever you want in the last two minutes, guys, we won't call penalties." Yeah, not great IMO.

"Well it was overthrown." Sure. And those guys practice the timing of those passes hundreds of not thousands of times. Did the hold throw off the timing? Did Mahomes see the hold and threw an uncatchable ball to make sure there was no interception rather than a contested ball, figuring on getting the penalty? Maybe. The point is we don't know what would have happened if the CB hadn't held the receiver. But we do know (and he admitted!) that there was a hold.

Maybe it made the last 90 seconds a little less exciting. But it was the right call.

Agreed. Besides he even admitted he held him. Let’s not forget the non call from earlier in the game. Of course that would wreck peoples narritive. It was not such an egregious call like the Saints game several years back. This also was not the final deciding factor on who won or lost. People just want to be worked up over something these days. If you don like it stop watching.

 

[Torc]

Of course it's human error, but the NFL has a "human error" problem, and that problem reared it's ugly head last night at the worst possible time.

We've talked about this millions of times on here as to why this is. Maybe don't have your multi-billion dollar sport ref'd by a bunch of half blind octogenarians who can neither keep up with the insane pace of play, nor the dozen new subjective rules every year because some owner was butthurt by the way his team lost in the playoffs the prior year.

I agree with everything you say here, but don't get how it applies. The official called a hold, the player admitted it was a hold, where is the error? The official failed to provide a more dramatic moment?

 

[Hawknballs]

I've watched the play a few more times today and it was such a ticky tack call that we will just have to agree to disagree. Kudos to the eagles coaches and players for not complaining, it's not a good look when teams do that. It also didn't "lose" the game for the Eagles - it was simply the deciding factor at the end of the game to seal it. But weak calls like this shouldn't be deciding games at any level let alone the superbowl.

 

[Torc]

I've watched the play a few more times today and it was such a ticky tack call that we will just have to agree to disagree. Kudos to the eagles coaches and players for not complaining, it's not a good look when teams do that. It also didn't "lose" the game for the Eagles - it was simply the deciding factor at the end of the game to seal it. But weak calls like this shouldn't be deciding games at any level let alone the superbowl.

You mean you've watched the view of the play made available to you a few times today. And I second your kudos to the Eagles. They've handled it well and with sportsmanship. The 49ers should take note.

 

[Hawknballs]

I agree with everything you say here, but don't get how it applies. The official called a hold, the player admitted it was a hold, where is the error? The official failed to provide a more dramatic moment?

Other sports leagues handle this better, calling more ticky-tack calls at the start of the year, and tapering them off as games become more meaniful to ensure that such a weak call doesn't impact things.

I think some of us are just lamenting that the NFL has such a weak handle on it's officials that this is bound to happen again unless they take the job a little more seriously with full time officials. At least, that's my biggest take-away.

we aren't saying "RIGGED!", we aren't talking about a ref "screw job." we are simply saying it needs to be better.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I agree with everything you say here, but don't get how it applies. The official called a hold, the player admitted it was a hold, where is the error? The official failed to provide a more dramatic moment?

The error comes into play when the league, owners and players through their association don't make sure their referees understand the same thing other pro sports leagues have figured out and conveyed to their refs...........NEVER make the outcome of important games and matches about the referee'ing or call. No one wants that.

Swallow the whistle in big moments in big games, unless the foul or call is egregious.

This penalty happens literally every play of every game where the WR's and CB's/LB's grab and push early in routes. In week two of a regular season? Sure, make the call, or not. In the SB with 5 minutes to play with a tie game and your call is going to decide the outcome? No.

You guys keep thinking sports ref'ing should be black and white, but it's not. As I stated earlier, nuance matters. Timing matters.

 

[scutterhawk]

It'd be just like most of the NFL games where one team's fans complain about non calls that are borderline.

That's far less of a story than actually throwing the flag for the kind of penalty like last night.

Nuance matters when it comes to the magnitude of the game and moment. It's why in every pro sports league around the world the refs allow more than in a normal game or match. Happens in the WC every time, the refs call far less penalties and give our less yellow and red cards.

Because they know they don't want that magnitude of match to be determined by a match changing call. Same in hockey, same in basketball, and should be the same in football. Wasn't last night. The ref decided to interject himself into the game at the wrong moment. The end.

Yep, it was more of an "Egregious" call that it was an egregious penalty the flag was an overreaction.

 

[morgulon1]

I disagree with most on here. I think Philly had what it took to win and failed.
Take away the strip sack touchdown and the Eagles win.
The defensive holding on the cb looked like a hold to me.
Salk has always gotten on my nerves. I started listening again when Huard came back.

 

[Torc]

"The refs gave the Patriots the win by calling a penalty....."



Should this not have been called?

 

[Smellyman]

I like Salk.

 

[knownone]

Of course it's human error, but the NFL has a "human error" problem, and that problem reared it's ugly head last night at the worst possible time.

We've talked about this millions of times on here as to why this is. Maybe don't have your multi-billion dollar sport ref'd by a bunch of half blind octogenarians who can neither keep up with the insane pace of play, nor the dozen new subjective rules every year because some owner was butthurt by the way his team lost in the playoffs the prior year.

If the NFL has a human error problem, there is no perfect solution, and there will always be outrage. Would younger referees make a difference? Maybe. But perhaps experience is leading to fewer of these 50/50 calls in critical situations. For example, the referee who threw the flag, John Jenkins, is in his late 40s.

Similarly, removing rules doesn't remove subjectivity. Every call and noncall is a judgment, and all decisions are subjective. We've seen the NFL try to solve this with more generalized definitions, leading to many odd interpretations. So they backpedaled into stricter descriptions which, paradoxically, have a similar outcome. We saw the pros of the more strict variety when the Eagles had an apparent catch/fumble that was returned for a TD overturned because of the clearly defined "football move." However, the more complexity added to rules, the more likely referees will make mistakes on the field.

In other words, there is no solution to solving the human error problem without turning the game into a legal exercise. Finding the balance between entertainment and competitive balance is the real problem the NFL is dealing with, but few people are willing to grapple with the reality of that situation.