Michael Sam

[peppersjap]

If Michael Sam had not come out, he would have gone no later than the 3rd round, and even that might be a stretch. He was the SEC defensive player of the year. The last 9 of 10 players before him to earn that honor were first round picks. He was a stud in college.

Coming out hurt his draft stock.

We recently had Jackson Jeffcoat in camp who was the league defensive player of the year at Texas. We brought him in as an unsigned free agent (he was undrafted) and he failed to make the team. I think he played with the Redskins some last year but being a Defensive player of the year in college means nothing, it is a different game. I absolutely think Michael Sam used his life choices to gain notoriety. If he was good enough to be playing in the NFL he would be. There is no way he would have been picked in the 1st 3 rounds, a team would be idiotic to pass on a talent like that. If he thinks he is such a talent he showed completely the opposite in walking away in the CFL. And like you said, he was a stud in college......so was Jeffcoat and even Tim Tebow. I thought Nick Reed was going to dominate here for years when he came out of Oregon and I think he might have been a Pac 12 player of the year. Michael Sam walked away because he is a marginal NFL talent.

 

[hawknation2015]

If Michael Sam had not come out, he would have gone no later than the 3rd round, and even that might be a stretch. He was the SEC defensive player of the year. The last 9 of 10 players before him to earn that honor were first round picks. He was a stud in college.

Coming out hurt his draft stock.

We recently had Jackson Jeffcoat in camp who was the league defensive player of the year at Texas. We brought him in as an unsigned free agent (he was undrafted) and he failed to make the team. I think he played with the Redskins some last year but being a Defensive player of the year in college means nothing, it is a different game. I absolutely think Michael Sam used his life choices to gain notoriety. If he was good enough to be playing in the NFL he would be. There is no way he would have been picked in the 1st 3 rounds, a team would be idiotic to pass on a talent like that. If he thinks he is such a talent he showed completely the opposite in walking away in the CFL. And like you said, he was a stud in college......so was Jeffcoat and even Tim Tebow. I thought Nick Reed was going to dominate here for years when he came out of Oregon and I think he might have been a Pac 12 player of the year. Michael Sam walked away because he is a marginal NFL talent.

I forgot about Jackson Jeffcoat. The Redskins picked him up, and he actually started a game for them last year. With more development, he could turn out to be a pretty good player.

 

[Marvin49]

If Michael Sam had not come out, he would have gone no later than the 3rd round, and even that might be a stretch. He was the SEC defensive player of the year. The last 9 of 10 players before him to earn that honor were first round picks. He was a stud in college.

Coming out hurt his draft stock.

Sam's production in college, on a stacked DL with multiple first round picks around him, wasn't that great. His co-defensive player award was due mostly to Missouri's surprising success and also a lack of a clear standout defensive player that year. His sack total in his final year was a bit more than half of what Hau'oli Kikaha had last year.

Besides, dudes don't get drafted based on college production. Nick Reed had about 30 sacks over his last two seasons at Oregon. Dexter Davis had similar sack production at ASU. Their pass rush production dwarfed Sam's, and neither one of them bombed the combine like Sam did. And both were 7th round picks.

If those guys were 7th rounders, what would that make Sam? Of course, Sam was himself a 7th rounder, and Jeff Fisher didn't even try to hide the fact that he made the selection out of 'progressive' motivations. No way in hell was Roger Goodell going to let the NFL look like a bunch of homophobes (even though in truth, it is loaded with them). Hardly a coincidence that Fisher made the pick, given that he is obviously very close with Goodell.

So I would say it's largely accurate that Michael Sam probably increased his chances of being drafted by coming out. That doesn't mean that Sam wasn't courageous. He may have profited from the decision (website, merchandize, planned Oprah TV show, etc)... there are legit reasons for cynicism. But that doesn't make what he did easy, so I respect him for that. He also had a really tough life growing up and it was worth rooting for him to have a better one in the future.

I tend to agree.

One think that drove me nuts around draft time was the "he was co-defensive player of the year...he should be taken higher".

So much fault in that logic. Go look at the history of Heisman Trophy Winners. College success is not always an indication of the way your talents are viewed in the NFL.

Sam is too small to be a DE, too slow to be an OLB, and he can't play in space. He is at best a situational pass rusher and you don't draft those in the first round. As a radio guy out here in the Bay Area said "You can be slow and succeed in the NFL. You can be small and succeed in the NFL. You can't be slow and small".

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If Michael Sam had not come out, he would have gone no later than the 3rd round, and even that might be a stretch. He was the SEC defensive player of the year. The last 9 of 10 players before him to earn that honor were first round picks. He was a stud in college.

Coming out hurt his draft stock.

Maybe with some teams who have old school GM's, coaches in conservative cities. But pro sports is the ultimate meritocracy, if you can play you will get drafted.

So I don't think Sam coming out hindered his attractiveness to the more progressive open minded franchises, like our own Hawks, i.e. why we drafted Clark despite his background.

Maybe his stock fell on some boards with some franchises, but IMO coming out wasn't the reason he fell so far. He had some glaring deficiencies, despite his production in college.

 

[bjornanderson21]

If Michael Sam had not come out, he would have gone no later than the 3rd round, and even that might be a stretch. He was the SEC defensive player of the year. The last 9 of 10 players before him to earn that honor were first round picks. He was a stud in college.

Coming out hurt his draft stock.

Combination of a "bad" year for defensive players in the conference, as well as measurables that aren't good enough for the NFL.

There are Heisman trophy winners with Bust written all over them who fall in the Draft, no need to concoct conspiracy theories about it.

 

[kobebryant]

For his sake I would have liked it to work out, but he clearly isn't pro football caliber.

I actually think he goes undrafted if he doesn't come out. He profiles similar to other very good hustle college pass rushers from big programs such as Auston English, Nick Reed, and Jackson Jeffcoat - one 7th rounder and two UDFAs.

Nothing about Sam's measurables, testing, movement skills, or athleticism made him draftable. Jeff Fisher did the NFL a solid.

In Montreal he definitely isn't good enough to beat out John Bowman, Gabe Knapton, or Bear Woods for a pass rusher role. He may have seen the writing on the wall that he was destined to be a healthy scratch or cut, and apparently didn't want to compete. Being cut because you just aren't good enough by a progressive organization in a cosmopolitan city would ruin the whole discrimination story.

One day a homosexual prospect the caliber of Vernon Davis or Demarcus Ware is going to enter the draft and he will be drafted exactly where he should be.

 

[therealjohncarlson]

If Michael Sam had not come out, he would have gone no later than the 3rd round, and even that might be a stretch. He was the SEC defensive player of the year. The last 9 of 10 players before him to earn that honor were first round picks. He was a stud in college.

Coming out hurt his draft stock.

See I never really get what point people are trying to make when they make the point that Sam was drafted too late based on his profile. If you accept the fact that it turned out Sam was a pretty lousy professional player you are basically saying teams screwed up by not drafting a player that turned out to suck anyway? If he turned out to be an NFL stud you would have a point, but we have a way of objectionably saying teams did not screw up.

 

[Maulbert]

Things aren't too rosy north of the border. This was from an article in the Montreal Gazette:

When he was allowed to return, and once the regular-season began, Sam immediately went on the team’s 46-man roster. So, while he hasn’t dressed for games, Sam has collected his game cheque on a weekly basis – still having failed to prove anything.

He should have been placed on the practice roster instead, but the organization has completely mishandled the scenario and Sam has become a distraction. He doesn’t play on special teams and isn’t considered competent. Privately, more and more players are criticizing the preferential treatment he has received.

If he's not good enough to crack the CFL, he never stood a chance here.

Full article here:

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/f...-snap-so-what-was-all-the-fuss-about-with-sam

 

[RedAlice]

what really annoys me w MSam, is him making himself public and acting like being gay is a job.

It's not.

I'm the B in the whole letter thingy and I can hang out all day on my couch if I want to and nobody care, cuz, um: why?

My gay friends are serious insane winning awards and being all over acheivers.

 

[HansGruber]

what really annoys me w MSam, is him making himself public and acting like being gay is a job.

It's not.

I'm the B in the whole letter thingy and I can hang out all day on my couch if I want to and nobody care, cuz, um: why?

My gay friends are serious insane winning awards and being all over acheivers.

When did he act like being gay was a job? That's kind of a stretch

 

[Scottemojo]

what really annoys me w MSam, is him making himself public and acting like being gay is a job.

It's not.

I'm the B in the whole letter thingy and I can hang out all day on my couch if I want to and nobody care, cuz, um: why?

My gay friends are serious insane winning awards and being all over acheivers.

When did he act like being gay was a job? That's kind of a stretch

When he agreed to do a reality show?

 

[HansGruber]

what really annoys me w MSam, is him making himself public and acting like being gay is a job.

It's not.

I'm the B in the whole letter thingy and I can hang out all day on my couch if I want to and nobody care, cuz, um: why?

My gay friends are serious insane winning awards and being all over acheivers.

When did he act like being gay was a job? That's kind of a stretch

When he agreed to do a reality show?

So a gay person who agrees to do a reality show is saying that being gay is a job?

I'm not seeing the logical connection here, help me out.

 

[kearly]

There are gay players in the NFL right now. There's a decent chance that one of those closeted gay players has made a pro-bowl in recent years.

If you want a "Jackie Robinson" for gay athletes, you need to find one who's as good at playing sports as Jackie Robinson was. A guy like Michael Sam can't be that icon, because a player without enough talent will always bring up reasonable questions about preferential treatment and it won't last. If say, someone like Andrew Luck or Aaron Rodgers were gay, it would do a great deal to change perceptions about gay athletes.

It will be a good day when that elite level gay athlete feels he can step out and help bring about real, lasting changes.

 

[Scottemojo]

what really annoys me w MSam, is him making himself public and acting like being gay is a job.

It's not.

I'm the B in the whole letter thingy and I can hang out all day on my couch if I want to and nobody care, cuz, um: why?

My gay friends are serious insane winning awards and being all over acheivers.

When did he act like being gay was a job? That's kind of a stretch

When he agreed to do a reality show?

So a gay person who agrees to do a reality show is saying that being gay is a job?

I'm not seeing the logical connection here, help me out.

I never said a gay person who agrees to a reality show is treating their sexuality as a job. Pronouns. I agreed HE was going to have a reality show because of his sexuality. Perhaps you don't see the connection because you are trying to make this about all gay people. I was talking about one gay person. If you have a list of gay people offered reality shows I suppose I could offer comments on more than just Sam.
Show=Money. Getting Paid=Job. Show because of being the first openly gay NFL player=acting like being gay is a job. I understood what RedAlice meant.

I would also add that I don't blame him if he did do a reality show, which he bailed on after some pressure from the NFL. He is free to make money any way he pleases, legally. It annoyed RedAlice, not scottemojo.

Why do you think he was offered a reality show? Do you think he was offered the show for some other reason besides his sexuality?

 

[HansGruber]

I never said a gay person who agrees to a reality show is treating their sexuality as a job. Pronouns. I agreed HE was going to have a reality show because of his sexuality. Perhaps you don't see the connection because you are trying to make this about all gay people. I was talking about one gay person. If you have a list of gay people offered reality shows I suppose I could offer comments on more than just Sam.
Show=Money. Getting Paid=Job. Show because of being the first openly gay NFL player=acting like being gay is a job. I understood what RedAlice meant.

I would also add that I don't blame him if he did do a reality show, which he bailed on after some pressure from the NFL. He is free to make money any way he pleases, legally. It annoyed RedAlice, not scottemojo.

Why do you think he was offered a reality show? Do you think he was offered the show for some other reason besides his sexuality?

THIS is the quote I was responding to:

what really annoys me w MSam, is him making himself public and acting like being gay is a job.

All I saw from Michael Sam was someone wanting a job in the NFL, who willingly dropped a TV deal because he wanted to win a legit job with a team. I'm not sure how Sam "acted like being gay is a job."

The hype around Sam came from the media, not Sam. So I think RedAlice's annoyance is misplaced. Be annoyed with the media if you're going to be annoyed. But understand that it's the media's job to create stories, to play up every little BS story as much as they can - because that's how they get paid. And they made a lot of money on the Sam story.

 

[chris98251]

I never said a gay person who agrees to a reality show is treating their sexuality as a job. Pronouns. I agreed HE was going to have a reality show because of his sexuality. Perhaps you don't see the connection because you are trying to make this about all gay people. I was talking about one gay person. If you have a list of gay people offered reality shows I suppose I could offer comments on more than just Sam.
Show=Money. Getting Paid=Job. Show because of being the first openly gay NFL player=acting like being gay is a job. I understood what RedAlice meant.

I would also add that I don't blame him if he did do a reality show, which he bailed on after some pressure from the NFL. He is free to make money any way he pleases, legally. It annoyed RedAlice, not scottemojo.

Why do you think he was offered a reality show? Do you think he was offered the show for some other reason besides his sexuality?

THIS is the quote I was responding to:

what really annoys me w MSam, is him making himself public and acting like being gay is a job.

All I saw from Michael Sam was someone wanting a job in the NFL, who willingly dropped a TV deal because he wanted to win a legit job with a team. I'm not sure how Sam "acted like being gay is a job."

The hype around Sam came from the media, not Sam. So I think RedAlice's annoyance is misplaced. Be annoyed with the media if you're going to be annoyed. But understand that it's the media's job to create stories, to play up every little BS story as much as they can - because that's how they get paid. And they made a lot of money on the Sam story.

And probably cost him his shot in the NFL in doing so.

 

[HansGruber]

I never said a gay person who agrees to a reality show is treating their sexuality as a job. Pronouns. I agreed HE was going to have a reality show because of his sexuality. Perhaps you don't see the connection because you are trying to make this about all gay people. I was talking about one gay person. If you have a list of gay people offered reality shows I suppose I could offer comments on more than just Sam.
Show=Money. Getting Paid=Job. Show because of being the first openly gay NFL player=acting like being gay is a job. I understood what RedAlice meant.

I would also add that I don't blame him if he did do a reality show, which he bailed on after some pressure from the NFL. He is free to make money any way he pleases, legally. It annoyed RedAlice, not scottemojo.

Why do you think he was offered a reality show? Do you think he was offered the show for some other reason besides his sexuality?

THIS is the quote I was responding to:

what really annoys me w MSam, is him making himself public and acting like being gay is a job.

All I saw from Michael Sam was someone wanting a job in the NFL, who willingly dropped a TV deal because he wanted to win a legit job with a team. I'm not sure how Sam "acted like being gay is a job."

The hype around Sam came from the media, not Sam. So I think RedAlice's annoyance is misplaced. Be annoyed with the media if you're going to be annoyed. But understand that it's the media's job to create stories, to play up every little BS story as much as they can - because that's how they get paid. And they made a lot of money on the Sam story.

And probably cost him his shot in the NFL in doing so.

Not so sure on that one. The majority of owners are smart enough to realize the marketing potential of such a media-friendly story.

What cost him his NFL job is that he can't even get to the QB in the CFL, and said so himself. Said he got close a lot but never could get the sack. Not a huge market for a media-friendly story that can't produce on the field.

 

[chris98251]

The reason I say that is he was considered a marginal player that may have been able to be developed, all the media coverage had to take it's toll on his focus and his ability to digest material and train properly, not to mention a distraction for the teams he was on.

 

[rideaducati]

Good, the only reason he got all that attention is because he is gay. He is too slow to make it in the NFL at DE or LB.

Good? You're happy he failed?

Yeah, he got a lot of attention because he was the first openly gay player to actually have a chance at playing in the NFL, that's a big deal. He also was pretty darn good in college. It's not like he was some media plant trying to make a quick buck, it was legitimately an interesting and ground-breaking story.

Well, he just: got accepted to that Canada football.

And, um: left for NO reason.

He is now on suspension. I was one of his biggest supporters. I am dissapointed in my belief, and it has absolute zero to do with his choice of C placement.

He is weak.

and he DOES NOT rep his choice of standards or qualifications on S.

As a player, You play this game hard: or you don't.

Maybe "playing hard" meant something to Sam that wouldn't go over well in the locker room. :stirthepot:

 

[hawknation2015]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MichaelSamNFL/status/632333545831301120[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MichaelSamNFL/status/632333710017167360[/tweet]

One thing is for sure, he did not look like the same player that he was at Mizzou. Wish him well.