Marshawn Lynch to hold out of training camp

[Smelly McUgly]

If I was the players, I would gladly do that in exchange for an early termination penalty wherein seventy-five cents of every dollar left on the contract is guaranteed to the player in case of early contract termination. That way, organizations don't simply structure deals with a final year or final two years that they never intend to pay. We could make that early termination penalty cap-exempt, if it helps.

The players get a big signing bonus and guaranteed portions and that is the reason the players have said it is ok to get cut. The owners would gladly take fully guaranteed contracts if the players wanted that. The contracts would just not be as large, not have signing bonuses and there would be less contracts being signed overall (which the players don't like).

Respectfully to you, I actually don't think this is true, and let me tell you why. If you look the NBA and MLB, those PAs have negotiated FULLY guaranteed contracts. In those leagues, that is why players aren't hung up about getting cut/waived/reassigned. NFL players would take guaranteed contracts over just a big signing bonus and guaranteed portions in about two seconds if that were offered to them. Good news: It would limit holdouts like the Lynch one, where I'm pretty sure he's doing it because he just wants a shot at some of that last year's money. Bad news: It might convince the Randy Mosses and Albert Haynesworths of the world to start coasting as soon as they get that first big money contract even more quickly.

There wouldn't be less contracts signed overall nor would there be smaller contracts as a result of fully guaranteeing them unless the cap floor was eliminated.

I don't think the NFL owners would gladly take fully guaranteed contracts. They love having the ability to be flexible within their hard cap, and they love having a hard cap because it keeps employee costs down and thus keeps their personal profits up.

That's why I think a trade-off between limiting or ending holdouts and giving the player a chance to earn money for every year on their contracts is a good one. I would even think that limiting the damage of early termination penalties on the cap by exempting them or only making a portion of them cap-affecting in exchange for making holdouts illegal under the CBA would be somewhat palatable.

I think that a fun exercise would be to just think about the best way to structure parts of the CBA to end holdouts while also rewarding players at a commensurate level. That would probably go in the NFL forum, though.

 

[AgentDib]

I don't think the NFL owners would gladly take fully guaranteed contracts.

I agree and would add that Non-guaranteed dollars are also a primary factor for the high parity in the NFL. Teams can squander their money horribly for a season or two but mistakes are temporary and when a new FO comes in they can win quickly by restructuring their entire team. I see that as one of the primary reasons why there are so many worst to first (and first to worst) turnarounds vs. other sports.

The NFL system is all the more impressive to me because FO's have mostly short term incentives; if they are on the hot seat they don't really need to care what happens to the cap situation years down the road. Despite that they tend to keep guaranteed dollars limited to the first couple of years which shows strong commitment on the part of ownership to the long-term product (and possibly a bit of collusion).

 

[Scottemojo]

And if he really wants a Superbowl bonus like I heard, someone needs to point him to the box score. Broncos shut him down and it was Russell putting up those 27 pts.

Yeah it was totally awful how the offensive line blocked perfectly every play but Lynch lazily did nothing.

Get outta here with box score analysis.

When did I ever argue anything remotely similar to that strawman nonsense? My argument is that the Broncos said they were going to focus on stopping Marshawn, which they did. They did an excellent job of shutting down Lynch, while allowing a ton of rushing yards to Wilson and Harvin.

Are you arguing that isn't true?

Marshawn had 39 yards on 15 carries, 2.7ypc average. That is worse than he did when our two starting tackles and starting center were out injured. Denver was obviously focused on stopping Lynch and they were successful in doing so. Or perhaps you'd like to argue otherwise. I'm all ears. Go ahead.

My point was that the rest of the team stepped up and performed when they had to. Marshawn put 7 points on the board. Russell Wilson and the rest of the offense put up 20 points. Is that inaccurate? How am I mistaken? Are you arguing that the rest of our offense is not capable of scoring and running efficient drives without Marshawn, or that we were incapable of doing so in the Superbowl (which WAS my argument)? No? So.... what is your point? Do you have one?

Of course you are not mistaken.
Except about a mythical super bowl bonus,which if it existed, would undoubtedly be based on a team getting to the SB and winning, not an individual stat line from the game.

But you used the stat line to have an emo rant. The point you tried to make was not cogent in any way.

 

[StoneCold]

Prediction:

Lynch will get an additional 1.5 mil for this year. He will not return until the last pre-season game. He will not pay any fines. He will have a great year.

Have a nice day!

SC

 

[Basis4day]

I was just thinking. I'm sure when Marshawn inked his deal with the Hawks he was represented by an agent right? And I'm pretty sure that agent and Beast signed a contract dictating what the agents percentage would be. Now, what if that agent, now 2 years into that contract with Beast says to Beast..."I want a bigger percentage from our contract, because you aren't going to be playing much longer" ...after Beast kicks his ass what do you think Beast will say to him?

I'm all for that agent asking Beast for more $. Doesn't hurt to ask right? But what do you honesty think Marshawn would say? I'm pretty sure it would be no..."we have a contract"..am I probably right?

The agent works for Lynch, not the other way around. This is not the reason Lynch is holding out.

I think you missed the point on this one.

Agents are not allowed to make more than 3% of an NFL player's contract. (Endorsement % is separate). Most players pay their agents the max. There really is no bigger percentage to be had through Lynch's contract. Some agents would give first Rounders a discount to 2%. There is only so much more money the agent could request from Lynch and would amount to 20 to 30 grand pre tax for every million that Lynch makes. Lynch is represented by Doug Hendrickson. He has plenty of horses in the race.

 

[kearly]

And if he really wants a Superbowl bonus like I heard, someone needs to point him to the box score. Broncos shut him down and it was Russell putting up those 27 pts.

Had Unger not been our center and Knighton not been their NT I don't think we are having this discussion.

I get your point, but I don't think our kind of offense could survive in the long run with our feature back getting 37 yards a game. Wilson can pull it off in some cases, but in other cases, like week 16, a lack of a running game can completely kill our offense. We caught a break in XLVIII because Denver's pass D wasn't good in the first place and was hobbled further by the absence of Von Miller.

 

[hawknation2014]

And if he really wants a Superbowl bonus like I heard, someone needs to point him to the box score. Broncos shut him down and it was Russell putting up those 27 pts.

Had Unger not been our center and Knighton not been their NT I don't think we are having this discussion.

I get your point, but I don't think our kind of offense could survive in the long run with our feature back getting 37 yards a game. Wilson can pull it off in some cases, but in other cases, like week 16, a lack of a running game can completely kill our offense. We caught a break in XLVIII because Denver's pass D wasn't good in the first place and was hobbled further by the absence of Von Miller.

Also, Marshawn took a hell of a beating in the Divisional and NFC Championship games. 50 carries for 249 yards and three touchdowns. He really put his body through the meat grinder and willed the team to victory in those two games, so I wasn't surprised he made less of an impact in the Super Bowl.

 

[tom sawyer]

Lynch is making a mistake if he thinks he has any power, he doesn't. If he has any sense, he will report on Turesday. The Hawks have openly stated his touches will go down (commanding less, not more dollars) and his contract was more than fair when he signed it. The Hawks owe him nothing.

He does has 1 power...he can flat out retire, if he does, he'll lose his paycheck for this year, but at the same time we all will kiss any chance of a repeat good bye. I can see this team getting to the playoffs (perhaps even deep) without Lynch, but I just can't see us winning another championship without him. Maybe in a few years when CM can prove he is a worthy/better replacement, and the FO can retain/grow talent. But this year's success still relies on Marshawn Lynch being #1 RB.

He won't retire. He'd lose more money than continuing to hold out. According to Clayton, he'd owe $3m of his signing bonus that the Seahawks could go after. Dude just bought a $400k Lamborghini.

He'll be in camp by Wednesday.

He'll be in camp by Wednesday.

^^^ This ^^^

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Prediction:

Lynch will get an additional 1.5 mil for this year. He will not return until the last pre-season game. He will not pay any fines. He will have a great year.

Have a nice day!

SC

I'd say he's back for the last two preseason games, and the extra is only 1M.........but I agree with the rest of this.

Something tells me this is as much about Marshawn hating training camp/practicing/avoiding the media as it is about more skrilla.

 

[HansGruber]

And if he really wants a Superbowl bonus like I heard, someone needs to point him to the box score. Broncos shut him down and it was Russell putting up those 27 pts.

Yeah it was totally awful how the offensive line blocked perfectly every play but Lynch lazily did nothing.

Get outta here with box score analysis.

When did I ever argue anything remotely similar to that strawman nonsense? My argument is that the Broncos said they were going to focus on stopping Marshawn, which they did. They did an excellent job of shutting down Lynch, while allowing a ton of rushing yards to Wilson and Harvin.

Are you arguing that isn't true?

Marshawn had 39 yards on 15 carries, 2.7ypc average. That is worse than he did when our two starting tackles and starting center were out injured. Denver was obviously focused on stopping Lynch and they were successful in doing so. Or perhaps you'd like to argue otherwise. I'm all ears. Go ahead.

My point was that the rest of the team stepped up and performed when they had to. Marshawn put 7 points on the board. Russell Wilson and the rest of the offense put up 20 points. Is that inaccurate? How am I mistaken? Are you arguing that the rest of our offense is not capable of scoring and running efficient drives without Marshawn, or that we were incapable of doing so in the Superbowl (which WAS my argument)? No? So.... what is your point? Do you have one?

Of course you are not mistaken.
Except about a mythical super bowl bonus,which if it existed, would undoubtedly be based on a team getting to the SB and winning, not an individual stat line from the game.

But you used the stat line to have an emo rant. The point you tried to make was not cogent in any way.

Only because you've chosen to take one sentence out of context and extrapolate that into some argument I never made.

I've never once argued that Marshawn Lynch wasn't an integral piece to our Superbowl run. I was addressing HIS statement to MRob that he was the reason we won a Superbowl.

My argument was that Lynch is a piece of the puzzle, one that has become less critical with the development of Wilson and the rest of the offense. He got shut down in the Superbowl and Seattle was still able to move the ball at will on offense, including chewing up 12 minutes of the first quarter. Russell Wilson did a fantastic job of stepping up and turning opportunities into points, even after Denver attempted to switch gears and focus on Russell. Therefore, while Lynch is a big piece of the offense, he's not nearly as critical as the media or he believe or as he stated.

Remember we had the same defense and running back in 2011 and missed the playoffs. It was Russell that put us over the top. I'd be fine moving forward with Michael and Turbin and don't think it would be that terrible. I have that much confidence in Wilson.

 

[General Manager]

There is a really good discussion on Softy's show right now with a former agent Joel Cory. He made the point that there's a lot they could do without really changing anything in terms of the salary cap . One was simply adding all the incentives to base salary . This thing will be resolved by the middle of august I firmly believe that.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There is a really good discussion on Softy's show right now with a former agent Joel Cory. He made the point that there's a lot they could do without really changing anything in terms of the salary cap . One was simply adding all the incentives to base salary . This thing will be resolved by the middle of august I firmly believe that.

Lynch as already flipped off Bevell



Therefore I think we'd rather not get into a situation where Lynch is throwing fits and causing problems in the locker room because he's sharing reps and not given the ball conflicting with his incentive requirements.

 

[General Manager]

There is a really good discussion on Softy's show right now with a former agent Joel Cory. He made the point that there's a lot they could do without really changing anything in terms of the salary cap . One was simply adding all the incentives to base salary . This thing will be resolved by the middle of august I firmly believe that.

Lynch as already flipped off Bevell



Therefore I think we'd rather not get into a situation where Lynch is throwing fits and causing problems in the locker room because he's sharing reps and not given the ball conflicting with his incentive requirements.

So your saying they should trade him then or you hope he retires. Nothing wrong with that except we won't have a proven star running back this season and you missed the point if they change the incentives in the contract to base salary he won't have to worry about the incentives.

 

[seedhawk]

Not to say it will wind up the same way but, think back to C Dillon and the Pats. Brought them a run game, they win the big one, and guess what?

A lot of interesting parallels here.

 

[HansGruber]

Not to say it will wind up the same way but, think back to C Dillon and the Pats. Brought them a run game, they win the big one, and guess what?

A lot of interesting parallels here.

Actually it's an interesting point. I'd thought about it this afternoon as well. NE had their success when they were mostly a run+defense team. As soon as Brady started blowing up the pass game, they just couldn't win it all. Honestly think that had more to do with their defense just going to crap though.

 

[HansGruber]

But let's be honest here - Christine Michael is going to be a really good fit for Carroll's system.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Not to say it will wind up the same way but, think back to C Dillon and the Pats. Brought them a run game, they win the big one, and guess what?

A lot of interesting parallels here.

Not a terrible parallel, however you left off a really important detail in that Dillon was 30 the first year with the Patriots. So yes.. he did indeed bring them a rushing game, and couple that with everything else on the team the Pats became quite a team en route to the Super Bowl... but age 30 for running backs always seems to be the precursor for said running back to quickly deteriorate.

So Dillon was 30 when the Patriots acquired him.. THEN added another 400+ touches to that.. and it's easy to see why Dillon's performance quickly came unglued.

That said.. Lynch isn't your typical 28 year old back either.. there's a lot of tread on those tires. Which I think is the crux of all this to begin with.. Marshawn can read the tea leaves, he knows he has (in all likelihood) a max of 2-3 years remaining as a featured back in the NFL. I'm talking best case scenario here. Really I'd be surprised if he keeps performing at this level after 2014.. figure since coming to Seattle he has played deep into January 3 of his 4 years here. That's again.. more tread on those tires.

On the flip side, PC/JS absolutely realize this.. paired that with big extensions coming down the pipeline and it's pretty apparent that Marshawn Lynch's days as a Seahawk are quickly counting down barring him taking a sizable pay-cut to stay with the team. Of which, this holdout immediately negates that theory. So basically.. Marshawn Lynch is looking to squeeze the lemon as far as she can go.. and quite frankly, I don't think anyone here would have a problem with that if they just moved some bonus money around, or restructured it in a way to give Marshawn a bit more money in 2014 before letting him go in 2015.

We'll see who blinks first though.

 

[dunceface]

^^^^^ that

 

[AgentDib]

Agents are not allowed to make more than 3% of an NFL player's contract. (Endorsement % is separate). Most players pay their agents the max...

Just to clarify, TAB said you missed the point when you replied to Samwize because Samwize was not really claiming that the agent wanted more money. He was just using that an example of a contract and making a parallel between Lynch asking for more money and how Lynch would feel about somebody else asking for more money from him.