Manning's legacy

[hawksfansinceday1]

Brady elway Montana, maybe then Peyton.
Dude's 11-12 in the playoffs

in no particular order

Too young to have seen Unitas play?

Not too young to have seen him lose the Superbowl to Broadway Joe!

Earl Morrall lost that Super Bowl. Johnny U came in late on one leg and generated the ONLY offense of the day for the Colts. But by then it was too little, too late. I know this because I watched the game and every other Super Bowl ever played. You can look it up if you like.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

Even before the game I thought Manning was an overrated clutch-out. But this just made the hype bigger for the Hawks--it elevated us to Greatness.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

I will say this, Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly. Both there multiple times bith came up short, at least Peyton has one. Yeah it's a but different now with all the hype and media , but those two are hall of famers as well and it didn't help their cause.

Russell Wilson is now on a higher level of greatness than any quarterback who hasn't won the big one.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

Brady elway Montana, maybe then Peyton.
Dude's 11-12 in the playoffs

Montana, Elway, Brady, Wilson...Peyton.

 

[Passepartout]

Well at least Peyton has one SB ring. Despite the two losses. He came back from neck injury and nearly out of football. Sadly people are forgetting that!

 

[kigenzun]

In my mind, this will always be Peyton's "Legacy"...

 

[pmedic920]

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

One thing that's been gnawing at me for a while now, ever since the end of the Super Bowl, is this topic. But I think there are a few unexplored facets of this that make for a very interesting discussion, and they all stem around on thing: an airplane. Paul Allen's airplane.

Peyton Manning had a chance to come to Seattle. We threw out the red carpet; Paul Allen even sent his airplane down there to pick him up for a full-scale, no-holds-barred tour, in the hopes to land him here. Coming here would have made him instantly the best Seattle Seahawk quarterback ever to wear the uniform, and a chance to command a high-powered offense that was backed by one of the best defenses in the league. We're talking - at least for last year and this year - Denver's offense and Seattle's defense, all on the same team. Fully intact running game already there; all he would need is to throw to his receivers and make them look magical like he does with every other receiver he's ever thrown to. Looking back, this would have been a dream scenario. The thought that this year might have brought Manning his second or even third championship isn't hard to imagine.

But he's said before: he's an AFC guy. Wonder why. Could it be that he knew the NFC, and the NFC West in particular, plays a much more bruising, hard-hitting, smash-mouth style of ball? Could it be he compared the chance to play here with the future of having to play in the league's worst black-and-blue division for the foreseeable future? Could it be he just didn't have enough guts to consider it? The gain was greater, but the risk was higher. He might not have trusted his newly Frankensteined neck to withstand 16 games a year in the NFC, and six against the NFC West.

So he went to the AFC, where he'd minimize playing against those smash-mouth teams. Sure, he'd meet one in the Super Bowl, provided he got there, and sure, everyone plays a handful of inter-league games anyway, but that's far less than the gauntlet of pain he'd likely be facing week in and week out playing in Seattle. Remember; he was wooed by the 49ers as well, and that would have put him in almost the identical situation as here.

Maybe his legacy is cemented by this decision more than what first meets the eye. Maybe in the end it came down to just not being willing to pull the trigger on playing in the NFC; not having the balls to face that kind of play. And so he chickened out, went to a prime AFC team, hoping and banking on having enough finesse and talent to beat one of those smash-mouth teams once and get his second Lombardi trophy.

But Seattle took that decision and shoved it down his throat. If we'd have failed to make it to the big game, I have no doubt the 49ers would have done similarly to them. And if they'd have failed, the Panthers probably would have too. Most of the top several teams in the NFC Playoffs this year had crushing, punishing defenses. Not on Seattle's level perhaps, but enough to bring the hurt to Manning's Broncos come Super Bowl Sunday.

Hey, he gambled. And lost. He knows full well what he turned down, what he couldn't quite make the decision to do. And that decision, one way or the other, probably had a large part in shaping his legacy. He could have been the best quarterback ever, no questions asked. Now one can make the argument he isn't even the best quarterback ever on that team. Oh well.

Looking back on it, I'm not sure I'd have wanted it any other way than the way it happened.

 

[pmedic920]

Interesting view point. Thanks
I had forgotten all about him having a chance to come to Seattle.

 

[The Radish]

I think a lot of it might be him wanting to be the quarter back and coach rolled into one. I've always found his on field actions a big put off while admitting he has done a great job.

I hear many bashing him because he only won 1 SB and that's crazy. I think Dan Marino is a top 10 QB and he never won any. Peyton Manning only lost all those playoff games because he played lot of games period. I've made it no secret that I think the entire Manning clan are a bunch of self centered assholes, at least on a football field.

But after Sunday I have changed my thoughts about Peyton. On the field he does his thing and this time he found a coach and a system that knew how to stop him from doing his thing. But he refused to allow the media to downplay the way the Seahawks played and to make fun of the way the Broncos played.

He was the perfect gentleman in his press conferance. Neat appearing, wearing a suit, answering questions with no nastyness or rudeness. You could see he had to rein himself in a time or two and/or pause to find the correct wording he wanted without being a horses patoot about any of it. Admitted they had been outplayed, took blame for that first snap that became a safety and didn't mumble about it.

I will never feel the same about the guy. He clearly is as good a loser as he is a winner.

:les:

 

[3Girls'HawkDad]

One thing that's been gnawing at me for a while now, ever since the end of the Super Bowl, is this topic. But I think there are a few unexplored facets of this that make for a very interesting discussion, and they all stem around on thing: an airplane. Paul Allen's airplane.

Peyton Manning had a chance to come to Seattle. We threw out the red carpet; Paul Allen even sent his airplane down there to pick him up for a full-scale, no-holds-barred tour, in the hopes to land him here. Coming here would have made him instantly the best Seattle Seahawk quarterback ever to wear the uniform, and a chance to command a high-powered offense that was backed by one of the best defenses in the league. We're talking - at least for last year and this year - Denver's offense and Seattle's defense, all on the same team. Fully intact running game already there; all he would need is to throw to his receivers and make them look magical like he does with every other receiver he's ever thrown to. Looking back, this would have been a dream scenario. The thought that this year might have brought Manning his second or even third championship isn't hard to imagine.

But he's said before: he's an AFC guy. Wonder why. Could it be that he knew the NFC, and the NFC West in particular, plays a much more bruising, hard-hitting, smash-mouth style of ball? Could it be he compared the chance to play here with the future of having to play in the league's worst black-and-blue division for the foreseeable future? Could it be he just didn't have enough guts to consider it? The gain was greater, but the risk was higher. He might not have trusted his newly Frankensteined neck to withstand 16 games a year in the NFC, and six against the NFC West.

So he went to the AFC, where he'd minimize playing against those smash-mouth teams. Sure, he'd meet one in the Super Bowl, provided he got there, and sure, everyone plays a handful of inter-league games anyway, but that's far less than the gauntlet of pain he'd likely be facing week in and week out playing in Seattle. Remember; he was wooed by the 49ers as well, and that would have put him in almost the identical situation as here.

Maybe his legacy is cemented by this decision more than what first meets the eye. Maybe in the end it came down to just not being willing to pull the trigger on playing in the NFC; not having the balls to face that kind of play. And so he chickened out, went to a prime AFC team, hoping and banking on having enough finesse and talent to beat one of those smash-mouth teams once and get his second Lombardi trophy.

But Seattle took that decision and shoved it down his throat. If we'd have failed to make it to the big game, I have no doubt the 49ers would have done similarly to them. And if they'd have failed, the Panthers probably would have too. Most of the top several teams in the NFC Playoffs this year had crushing, punishing defenses. Not on Seattle's level perhaps, but enough to bring the hurt to Manning's Broncos come Super Bowl Sunday.

Hey, he gambled. And lost. He knows full well what he turned down, what he couldn't quite make the decision to do. And that decision, one way or the other, probably had a large part in shaping his legacy. He could have been the best quarterback ever, no questions asked. Now one can make the argument he isn't even the best quarterback ever on that team. Oh well.

Looking back on it, I'm not sure I'd have wanted it any other way than the way it happened.

Great post

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

One thing that's been gnawing at me for a while now, ever since the end of the Super Bowl, is this topic. But I think there are a few unexplored facets of this that make for a very interesting discussion, and they all stem around on thing: an airplane. Paul Allen's airplane.

Peyton Manning had a chance to come to Seattle. We threw out the red carpet; Paul Allen even sent his airplane down there to pick him up for a full-scale, no-holds-barred tour, in the hopes to land him here. Coming here would have made him instantly the best Seattle Seahawk quarterback ever to wear the uniform, and a chance to command a high-powered offense that was backed by one of the best defenses in the league. We're talking - at least for last year and this year - Denver's offense and Seattle's defense, all on the same team. Fully intact running game already there; all he would need is to throw to his receivers and make them look magical like he does with every other receiver he's ever thrown to. Looking back, this would have been a dream scenario. The thought that this year might have brought Manning his second or even third championship isn't hard to imagine.

But he's said before: he's an AFC guy. Wonder why. Could it be that he knew the NFC, and the NFC West in particular, plays a much more bruising, hard-hitting, smash-mouth style of ball? Could it be he compared the chance to play here with the future of having to play in the league's worst black-and-blue division for the foreseeable future? Could it be he just didn't have enough guts to consider it? The gain was greater, but the risk was higher. He might not have trusted his newly Frankensteined neck to withstand 16 games a year in the NFC, and six against the NFC West.

So he went to the AFC, where he'd minimize playing against those smash-mouth teams. Sure, he'd meet one in the Super Bowl, provided he got there, and sure, everyone plays a handful of inter-league games anyway, but that's far less than the gauntlet of pain he'd likely be facing week in and week out playing in Seattle. Remember; he was wooed by the 49ers as well, and that would have put him in almost the identical situation as here.

Maybe his legacy is cemented by this decision more than what first meets the eye. Maybe in the end it came down to just not being willing to pull the trigger on playing in the NFC; not having the balls to face that kind of play. And so he chickened out, went to a prime AFC team, hoping and banking on having enough finesse and talent to beat one of those smash-mouth teams once and get his second Lombardi trophy.

But Seattle took that decision and shoved it down his throat. If we'd have failed to make it to the big game, I have no doubt the 49ers would have done similarly to them. And if they'd have failed, the Panthers probably would have too. Most of the top several teams in the NFC Playoffs this year had crushing, punishing defenses. Not on Seattle's level perhaps, but enough to bring the hurt to Manning's Broncos come Super Bowl Sunday.

Hey, he gambled. And lost. He knows full well what he turned down, what he couldn't quite make the decision to do. And that decision, one way or the other, probably had a large part in shaping his legacy. He could have been the best quarterback ever, no questions asked. Now one can make the argument he isn't even the best quarterback ever on that team. Oh well.

Looking back on it, I'm not sure I'd have wanted it any other way than the way it happened.

Great post

Ditto, and I'm not so sure New Orleans couldn't have handled the Donkeys in the Owl too.

 

[BASF]

One thing that's been gnawing at me for a while now, ever since the end of the Super Bowl, is this topic. But I think there are a few unexplored facets of this that make for a very interesting discussion, and they all stem around on thing: an airplane. Paul Allen's airplane.

Peyton Manning had a chance to come to Seattle. We threw out the red carpet; Paul Allen even sent his airplane down there to pick him up for a full-scale, no-holds-barred tour, in the hopes to land him here. Coming here would have made him instantly the best Seattle Seahawk quarterback ever to wear the uniform, and a chance to command a high-powered offense that was backed by one of the best defenses in the league. We're talking - at least for last year and this year - Denver's offense and Seattle's defense, all on the same team. Fully intact running game already there; all he would need is to throw to his receivers and make them look magical like he does with every other receiver he's ever thrown to. Looking back, this would have been a dream scenario. The thought that this year might have brought Manning his second or even third championship isn't hard to imagine.

But he's said before: he's an AFC guy. Wonder why. Could it be that he knew the NFC, and the NFC West in particular, plays a much more bruising, hard-hitting, smash-mouth style of ball? Could it be he compared the chance to play here with the future of having to play in the league's worst black-and-blue division for the foreseeable future? Could it be he just didn't have enough guts to consider it? The gain was greater, but the risk was higher. He might not have trusted his newly Frankensteined neck to withstand 16 games a year in the NFC, and six against the NFC West.

So he went to the AFC, where he'd minimize playing against those smash-mouth teams. Sure, he'd meet one in the Super Bowl, provided he got there, and sure, everyone plays a handful of inter-league games anyway, but that's far less than the gauntlet of pain he'd likely be facing week in and week out playing in Seattle. Remember; he was wooed by the 49ers as well, and that would have put him in almost the identical situation as here.

Maybe his legacy is cemented by this decision more than what first meets the eye. Maybe in the end it came down to just not being willing to pull the trigger on playing in the NFC; not having the balls to face that kind of play. And so he chickened out, went to a prime AFC team, hoping and banking on having enough finesse and talent to beat one of those smash-mouth teams once and get his second Lombardi trophy.

But Seattle took that decision and shoved it down his throat. If we'd have failed to make it to the big game, I have no doubt the 49ers would have done similarly to them. And if they'd have failed, the Panthers probably would have too. Most of the top several teams in the NFC Playoffs this year had crushing, punishing defenses. Not on Seattle's level perhaps, but enough to bring the hurt to Manning's Broncos come Super Bowl Sunday.

Hey, he gambled. And lost. He knows full well what he turned down, what he couldn't quite make the decision to do. And that decision, one way or the other, probably had a large part in shaping his legacy. He could have been the best quarterback ever, no questions asked. Now one can make the argument he isn't even the best quarterback ever on that team. Oh well.

Looking back on it, I'm not sure I'd have wanted it any other way than the way it happened.

Sailor, I think you are over thinking the reasoning a bit. A few years ago in the UFC, Anderson Silva was asked about going for the light heavyweight title and said, "No, that is Lyoto's division." He was referencing a guy who he grew up with as best friends Lyoto Machida. He basically didn't want to cost his practically brother a chance to get a championship. I think neither Peyton who chose the AFC later nor Eli who refused to play for an AFC team earlier want to cost the other a chance at going to the Super Bowl. Facing each other in the Super Bowl would be just fine with them, but neither would be happy with costing the other a shot at making it in a conference championship game.

 

[NINEster]

People forget he was wooed by Arizona too. Quickly shot that down, but they still showed interest.

Basically the entire NFCW except St. Louis had some eyes on this guy.

He "knew" indeed what was up. The Eli thing is what you hear a lot (and is legitimate), but he was scared. I believe there is a quote out there on him saying he didn't want the pressure of the high expectations to play for SF. Hilarious.

Do you think Jim Harbaugh would have turned down a job in the AFC if it came up instead of SF to avoid his brother? Hell, I think the whole super bowl thing was the worst thing that could happen to those guys.

And those select Niner fans who were still on the fence with Peyton now see the truth.

The best part about this super bowl for me was now the whole world and lay person football fan can see Peyton Manning for who he is....a very average post season QB who underachieves massively after New Year's day.

The Seahawks would have won this game regardless but the way he lost his composure and threw those two picks made this game a bigger blowout than it needed to be.

And BTW, when was the last time Tom Brady was blown out in a game? That comeback this year against Denver, and almost comeback against SF were hall of fame caliber.

Only way Manning can redeem himself is to go into Century Link and win this year. It won't erase the super bowl loss but it will be something.

Highly unlikely that's gonna happen.

 

[NINEster]

Another thought:

He book ended the 2013 season with his best performance and worst performance.

They were ready to remove every QB from the hall of fame after he threw 7 TDs in the opener, lol.

 

[Scottemojo]

I love your take Sailor.
I think there is some creedence to the don't want to play Eli take, the defenses in the NFC west are too tough take, all of that probably played a role.

But let's not forget that it was Payton that called some of these NFC teams first. Payton was the one drumming up the rumors and stoking the fires with the Niners, Cards, and according to Pete last week, it was Payton that called the Hawks.

Ultimately it came down to a few things. The money had to be there, almost 30 mil over the 3 years. Personnel had to be there, Payton wanted targets. But most of all, it had to be an offensive staff that would let Payton run the show.

Did any of you watch FX this week? Did you catch the sideline dynamic between Fox and Payton on 4th and short With Fox suggesting they go for it, but leaving it up to Payton? Did you see Payton telling his OC that he just knew they should have had a silet count to start the game? Fox doesn't wear the pants in Denver, and Gase makes play suggestions to Payton, not play calls. Payton is the OC, make no mistake. Denver had a GM/Pres in Elway who got Dan Reeves fired when Reeves would not let him call plays the way he wanted on the field, so we knew where Elway stood on the subject of quarterback control. The Broncos wanted to put the offense on Payton from the top of the organization down. They had weapons and a star left tackle. Denver had everything Payton needed (except a dome) and a coach willing to give him near full control, in addition to Elway making sure Payton gets what he wants. Nobody else offered all this.

Maybe the Cardinals would have given Payton what he wanted, but they lacked money. And their O-line was a shambles. The Dolphins thought they had him, but they lacked weapons and were really rebuilding. Tennessee was never anything but leverage.

Can any of you honestly see Pete or Jim Harbaugh both changing their offensive philosophy for Manning? He isn't stupid, Payton knows what they stand for. Run, take safe throws, play D.

As for Payton's legacy, no one can talk about now without saying Seahawks. And that is the only part of his HOF legacy I care about.

 

[RolandDeschain]

The Patriots reaching the NFCCG, even in a weak AFC but considering the loss of personnel they suffered, is pretty incredible. I think the Patriots would have made it a closer game against us.

Poor Peyton.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

I remembered that snub from Peyton very much right as the game was ending (and posted profanely about it).

He saw an easier path to the Super Bowl in the AFC, and he took it. I think what someone said about Peyton being the coach on offense is also true to an extent. Harbaugh and Carroll both have strong ideas about what they want to see out of their offenses and may have clashed with Manning.

But when it comes down to it, making the playoffs in the NFCW is an unsure thing even if you are on a good team, and making it out of the AFCW was pretty much a given for the Broncos at that point (and still is because the Chiefs are a mirage).

I'm glad it happened that way because I would rather have Russell Wilson. Not that I think Manning isn't a top-five QB all time (or that Wilson is at that level yet), but Wilson just fits our team's strengths better, and the Seahawks also were able to go get Harvin instead of allocating that money to Manning at QB since Wilson makes so much less.

I'm guessing 49er fans feel pretty much the same way about rather having Kaepernick over Manning.

 

[tmobilchawker79]

I will say this, Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly. Both there multiple times bith came up short, at least Peyton has one. Yeah it's a but different now with all the hype and media , but those two are hall of famers as well and it didn't help their cause.

Russell Wilson is now on a higher level of greatness than any quarterback who hasn't won the big one.

I love Russ, but I wouldn't go this far. At this point, he is great, but I wouldn't say other SuperBowl winning QB's (Flacco, Dilfer) are better than Marino, Moon, Fouts, etc. just because they have a ring.

 

[chris98251]

I will say this, Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly. Both there multiple times bith came up short, at least Peyton has one. Yeah it's a but different now with all the hype and media , but those two are hall of famers as well and it didn't help their cause.

Russell Wilson is now on a higher level of greatness than any quarterback who hasn't won the big one.

I would not say that, Tarkenton, Kelly, Marino, Fouts, Pastorini, Anderson, Hart, Hadl, Archie Manning, there are a lot of great QB's that never won it but there body of work sets them apart.

Wilson is very good, his body of work is still under development, many would say he won this Dilferiskly with a great defense. (Yeah I made up a new word ) but he is young and has his whole career yet to create his legacy of accomplishments.

We see the dedication and hard work, we see a coach that puts a governer on the offense and wants control and time eating drives, Wilson will never have Gaudy Stat lines, he may have a huge game here and there under Carroll.

Therefore his career will be defined by Division Championships, NFC Championships and Super Bowl wins and appearences.