Is Wilson a Hall of Fame QB?

[keasley45]

What's Matt Ryans excuse then? No grit? Aaron Rodgers suddenly doesn't know how to play at a high level? Let's make it retroactive, when he played at a low level and lost to the Seahawks in the NFCCG

---

Ha ha.

I've watched pretty well every snap of every game RW played with the Seahawks. The eye test says he played his guts out at an elevated level. Your revisionist posts won't change that fact, my fellow Seahawk fan.

I also remember every time he got his bell rung, and continued back out onto the field.
You do know that he played at Cal Ripken Iron-man level during every one of his Seahawk seasons save the last one right?
Football is a brutal sport and can take it's toll in many ways.

Matt Ryan is way passed his physical prime. Ever watch boxing? When a boxer is done, his mind knows what to do... when to pull the trigger, when to slip a punch, but his reflexes don't get the punch off and he no longer has the power he once had. That's Matt Ryan.

Rodgers is on a team that has dropped Considerably in talent and was playing with a broken finger.

If you've watched all of Russell Wilson's snaps, I'd wager you haven't done so from the All22 coaches tape, because if you had, you'd see the same mistakes he's making now in Denver, being made his whole career. His teammates on defense certainly saw it and called him out on it ... and as a result were allowed to leave.

Before Russ left, I posted a good number of game stills from games we won and games we lost that showed RW3 inexplicably wiffing on simple reads, missing wide open wr's, botching protections and hot reads, etc. His play in Denver is a continuation of his play in Seattle and save for 2019 when he actually showed the possibility of playing more consistent , traditional qb ball, it's been in decline since he chose first himself to dial back on his runs and then father time ( and too many Big Macs) took away his ability to extens plays.

Yes, Russ was probably the grittiest, most determined player I've ever seen okay the position and in terms of pure physical talent ( elusiveness, arm talent, accuracy) he was a generational talent and able to overcome his other shortcomings.

But I've watched all the games he's played as well and I've watched 6 seasons (going back to 2017) of All 22, and what that tape reveals is far different than what the Sunday NFL replay or live camera perspective shows. You can't make out the precise moment a wr was supposed to get a ball or what a progression might have been. You can't see wrs coming open downfield and you certainly can't watch the game from the qbs view of the field. All of that stuff you can see on the All22. It's why they call it the coaches reel... because it's the tape thebcoaches use to evaluate play.

And if I'm revising Russ's story, then so is KJ Wright and players who played with him when he was in his prime. KJ has said multiple times that Russ was the most clutch player he ever saw (paraphrasing), but also wasn't held accountable for his faults. Sherm has been even more critical.

It's possible (and is truth) that Russ was so talented at one point that reading a defense in a traditional sense wasn't absolutley necessary because he could overcome not being able to do so with his physical gifts. But whether he'll get into the Hall now when he's laid bare that yes, he was that incredible guy that won so many amazing games, but he was also responsible for far more of the qb failures than we ever knew... whether THAT guy, now saddled with the truth of his entire story... whether THAT guy is on level with a HOF standard.

 

[keasley45]

I must have remembered that particular game wrong. You are right. We lost that game and it was Aaron Rodgers that mounted that 4th quarter comeback and overtime win. One of the more memerable games for Aaron; I'm sure he keeps the winning ball on his bedside table.
And wasn't Mike McCarthy seen riding a bicycle around the stadium?

Fans like me and my fickle memory eh..



...SMH..

If you're remembering 4 tipped balls that Kearse erred on, yeah, you are remembering the wrong game. The tape is on YouTube... every version. It's plain as day watching even the 11 minute condensed version that only 2 INTs were deflections and of them, 1 was a misplaced ball too hot, high and out front of Kearse. The other 2... an underthrow in the endzone to kill a scoring drive that was picked and a toss up into double coverage that Kearse had no chance to bring in.

Russ had 4 highlight throws that game.

One on a broken coverage that hit ADB for a big gain to setup the fake FG TD.

One to Lynch in the 4th that was initially thought to be a TD but was brought back because he stepped out of bounds.

The 2 point prayer that was just that. A prayer.

And the PA bomb to Kearse to win the game.

But we weren't in position to win the game because Russ 'brought us back'. Russ got us behind AND when he stopped trying to throw and scrambled to pick up yards, we began to show life.

If it's ok for a player to go 1-11 in the first half with 3 INTs, throw another in the 2nd half and provide only 4 important throws to compliment an otherwise legendary performance all game long from the rest of his team and still call his performance 'great', then ok. We just have different definitions for what that word means. Russ played horribly, and made just enough plays to win. But we shouldn't have had to come back in the first place.

 

[OrangeGravy]

 

[Lagartixa]

I must have remembered that particular game wrong. You are right. We lost that game and it was Aaron Rodgers that mounted that 4th quarter comeback and overtime win. One of the more memerable games for Aaron; I'm sure he keeps the winning ball on his bedside table.
And wasn't Mike McCarthy seen riding a bicycle around the stadium?

Fans like me and my fickle memory eh..



...SMH..

So you're saying Jon Ryan belongs in the HoF as a QB?

In addition to making the most crucial pass in that comeback (and throwing zero interceptions in that game), he has a career passer rating of 116.7 and a career ANY/A of 13.5.

In that game, Ryan's passer rating was 158.3. The other guy's was 44.3. For context, the passer rating for a QB who spikes the ball into the turf on every single play would be 39.6.

Plus Ryan has what may be the all-time greatest "throwing face"

 

[Lagartixa]

It is actually interesting thinking the numbers will get him in. A lot of his misgivings and his marks about the Seahawks offense was that it did not produce enough stats for Wilson and his legacy. Looking just at the numbers, Dak Prescott will have better numbers than Wilson after he plays for ten seasons. Do any of you consider Prescott, who has received MVP votes in his career, worthy of the hall of fame?

A lot of the Wilsonists talk about his "fastest to..." stats and how Wilson compares to QBs from other eras that are in the HoF, but that ignores context. Wilson came into the already pass-happy NFL just as analytics were showing more and more people just how much more a good passing attack can do for a team, and as the NFL rule changes made passing even more worthwhile, pushing the NFL to surprisingly higher levels of pass-orientation. QBs drafted in the years after Wilson who may not be viable candidates for the Hall of Fame when all is said and done are putting up numbers as impressive in comparison to previous eras as Wilson did while under Carroll's protection. And there are some, like Mahomes, who are impressing well beyond anything that Wilson ever did.

The way I see it, Wilson has been among the top three QBs in the league in one season (arguably third in 2015) and arguably among the top five in one other season (2019). He's had a few other seasons in the top ten, and a few in the middle of the pack, plus this season, when he was unshackled, given the "control" he wanted (in quotes because that's the exact term he used when talking about why he went to Denver), and has been among the bottom five regular starters in the NFL.

If there were a "Hall of the Pretty Good," Wilson would probably get in. If he continues to suck as much as he has this season, he'll ruin even that.

 

[bigskydoc]

If only there was a HOF for "his game," but there isn't. There is only a HOF for "The Game."

 

[Rat]

What's all this talk about Sherm sucking in SF? He was still good early on there.

 

[Rat]

A lot of the Wilsonists talk about his "fastest to..." stats and how Wilson compares to QBs from other eras that are in the HoF, but that ignores context. Wilson came into the already pass-happy NFL just as analytics were showing more and more people just how much more a good passing attack can do for a team, and as the NFL rule changes made passing even more worthwhile, pushing the NFL to surprisingly higher levels of pass-orientation. QBs drafted in the years after Wilson who may not be viable candidates for the Hall of Fame when all is said and done are putting up numbers as impressive in comparison to previous eras as Wilson did while under Carroll's protection. And there are some, like Mahomes, who are impressing well beyond anything that Wilson ever did.

It depends when he's eligible. Kind of like how Shaun Alexander would have been a first-ballot HOFer in a different time. Based on what the HOF has shown, Russ looks very, very likely. The question is when the logjam at QB happens, if it even does. If guys like Tony Romo start getting it, I would assume it's coming soon.

 

[Scout]

Any time a QB wins a SB and puts up decent stats they have a shot at the HoF. It is not like other positions where a player has to be elite in many statistical categories and have a SB win + accolades under their belts to have a shot into the HoF.

If RW wasn't a QB he wouldn't be considered into the HoF for a long time. But the HoF is far more favorable to QBs that win SBs with stats that are not that impressive.

 

[IndyHawk]

This play is entirely on kearse. If he sets his block it’s a touchdown and it’s a bang bang throw. I’ve heard multiple coaches say exactly this. I haven’t heard a single coach put this play on Russ. Lockett also widens his route too

I bet we hear different years later but your correct it's a bang play.
I still think the throw is a hair late and we can still both be right if
you think about it.

 

[hawkfan68]

I think HOF should be reserved for players who changed the game. In that sense, Russell Wilson did have an impact. He contributed to the way coaches, GMs evaluated the QB position. You could also put Michael Vick in that category but Russell was a better passer in his early years than Vick was. So in that sense, he should be in HOF. HOF as it sits now has many players that don't have HOF worthy stats or shouldn't even be in there. Here's a link to an article on list of few that are in the HOF but maybe shouldn't be -
22 NFL Hall of Famers Who Don't Deserve to Be in Canton (disclaimer -this is a subjective opinion and I don't agree with everyone they have on their list. Some of those on the list are definitely worthy to be in the HOF).

 

[RiverDog]

A lot of the Wilsonists talk about his "fastest to..." stats and how Wilson compares to QBs from other eras that are in the HoF, but that ignores context. Wilson came into the already pass-happy NFL just as analytics were showing more and more people just how much more a good passing attack can do for a team, and as the NFL rule changes made passing even more worthwhile, pushing the NFL to surprisingly higher levels of pass-orientation. QBs drafted in the years after Wilson who may not be viable candidates for the Hall of Fame when all is said and done are putting up numbers as impressive in comparison to previous eras as Wilson did while under Carroll's protection. And there are some, like Mahomes, who are impressing well beyond anything that Wilson ever did.

The way I see it, Wilson has been among the top three QBs in the league in one season (arguably third in 2015) and arguably among the top five in one other season (2019). He's had a few other seasons in the top ten, and a few in the middle of the pack, plus this season, when he was unshackled, given the "control" he wanted (in quotes because that's the exact term he used when talking about why he went to Denver), and has been among the bottom five regular starters in the NFL.

If there were a "Hall of the Pretty Good," Wilson would probably get in. If he continues to suck as much as he has this season, he'll ruin even that.

Excellent post! That's as objective of a comment that I've seen in this forum about the subject of Russell's decline.