Is Wilson a Hall of Fame QB?

[GemCity]

What are his accolades outside of pro bowls of which, he only got in because other QBs dropped out?

A few accomplishments…

Those things I linked above….

Obviously, some of those stats are going to look different but, I think he still has enough to get in.

I also mentioned that if he continues to play like he has this season, it could be in jeopardy.

 

[RiverDog]

A few accomplishments…

Those things I linked above….

Obviously, some of those stats are going to look different but, I think he still has enough to get in.

I also mentioned that if he continues to play like he has this season, it could be in jeopardy.

Wilson currently ranks 23rd all time in passing yardage with 39,000+. That's less than half of what Tom Brady and Drew Brees have put up. He's in a little better standing with TD passes, currently ranked 13th, but he's behind 4 other active players, ie Brady, Rodgers, Ryan, and Stafford. Based on statistics, it's very difficult to argue that Russell is in the top 3-5 QB's of his era.

https://www.footballdb.com/leaders/career-passing-yards

 

[Ozzy]

That's simply not true. 1st one was a bad throw high and inside with a defender draped all over Kearse.

2nd one was a toss into double coverage. Not tipped, where the defender caught the ball because he was the one with position.

3rd one was a toss up to the endzone with the defender in position to make the play, not Kearse. And not tipped.

And the 4th one can arguably be put on Kearse for not making the grab.

3 of the 4 should not have been thrown.

Russ practically gave that game away were it not for our run game, defense and special teams. He wasn't by any stretch the victim of a wrs poor play.

I’ve rewatched these and if I’m splitting blame most goes to Kearse. He had both hands on multiple balls and missed them. He was flat out bad but thankfully both of them made the play when they needed to. Russ made multiple plays late to pull that game out

 

[Ozzy]

Wilson currently ranks 23rd all time in passing yardage with 39,000+. That's less than half of what Tom Brady and Drew Brees have put up. He's in a little better standing with TD passes, currently ranked 13th, but he's behind 4 other active players, ie Brady, Rodgers, Ryan, and Stafford. Based on statistics, it's very difficult to argue that Russell is in the top 3-5 QB's of his era.

https://www.footballdb.com/leaders/career-passing-yards

But the guys you compared him too have mutliple years extra and volume stats don’t tell the whole story. For 10 years he was easily too 3

 

[GemCity]

Wilson currently ranks 23rd all time in passing yardage with 39,000+. That's less than half of what Tom Brady and Drew Brees have put up. He's in a little better standing with TD passes, currently ranked 13th, but he's behind 4 other active players, ie Brady, Rodgers, Ryan, and Stafford. Based on statistics, it's very difficult to argue that Russell is in the top 3-5 QB's of his era.

https://www.footballdb.com/leaders/career-passing-yards

I don’t know who said he was top 3-5 of his era but, wasn’t me.

There are quarterbacks in the HOF with less passing yards.

I’m not sitting here advocating for the guy to be a first ballot nominee but, sheesh…it’s not far fetched to think he might make it.

 

[BASF]

I don’t know who said he was top 3-5 of his era but, wasn’t me.

There are quarterbacks in the HOF with less passing yards.

I’m not sitting here advocating for the guy to be a first ballot nominee but, sheesh…it’s not far fetched to think he might make it.

The passing yards argument is a strange one considering all the rule changes to increase the passing game in his decade. His passing style never would have survived the mugging that DBs were allowed to do in previous decades.

 

[chrispy]

But the guys you compared him too have mutliple years extra and volume stats don’t tell the whole story. For 10 years he was easily too 3

Top 3? Brady Manning and Brees... Who does RW displace for those 10 years?

For the past 3 years, there are multiple others. Perhaps there were a few of those 10 years where RCW was top 3, but not for 10.

HOF is awarded for a career, not for a portion of 10 years preceding an epic fail. There isn't a single HOF QB that played a 13 game stretch with 8 TDs. Easy answer- no.

 

[toffee]

Wilson currently ranks 23rd all time in passing yardage with 39,000+. That's less than half of what Tom Brady and Drew Brees have put up. He's in a little better standing with TD passes, currently ranked 13th, but he's behind 4 other active players, ie Brady, Rodgers, Ryan, and Stafford. Based on statistics, it's very difficult to argue that Russell is in the top 3-5 QB's of his era.

https://www.footballdb.com/leaders/career-passing-yards

Very reason why Wilson wanted out of here to free himself from Carroll's offense. He wanted to fly freely, to chase MVP stats, to make sure of his status as the best of his era.

 

[RiverDog]

I don’t know who said he was top 3-5 of his era but, wasn’t me.

There are quarterbacks in the HOF with less passing yards.

I’m not sitting here advocating for the guy to be a first ballot nominee but, sheesh…it’s not far fetched to think he might make it.

Which HOF QB's have fewer than 39k passing yards? Troy Aikman, who has 3 rings and a SB MVP? Or Steve Young, who has 3 rings, a SB MVP, and 2 league MVP's? Or Kurt Warner, who has a SB MVP and 2 league MVP's? Maybe Jim Kelly, who led his teams to 4 straight SB's? Those guys all have a little something extra on their resume that goes beyond the stats, things that Russell doesn't have. The others are from eras when the league wasn't as QB centric as it has been for the past 20-30 years.

I didn't accuse you of saying Russell was in the top 3-5 ranked QB's of his era. But that's what it's going to take for him to get into the HOF. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Worthlessburger, even Stafford have better credentials.

I realize that you're not lobbying for Russell's induction, and I apologize if I insinuated that you were. The point I was trying to make is that Russell does not have a good enough resume to get him into the HOF if his career had ended before this season, and he's doing an enormous amount of damage to his chances this year.

 

[RiverDog]

But the guys you compared him too have mutliple years extra and volume stats don’t tell the whole story. For 10 years he was easily too 3

That's true. But while Russell might have been on a path to a gold jacket, he was still going to need a minimum of 5 more seasons with 4k+ passing yards to even get into the conversation. IMO if he doesn't get either a league MVP or SB MVP, he's not going to get there.

 

[OrangeGravy]

It is actually interesting thinking the numbers will get him in. A lot of his misgivings and his marks about the Seahawks offense was that it did not produce enough stats for Wilson and his legacy. Looking just at the numbers, Dak Prescott will have better numbers than Wilson after he plays for ten seasons. Do any of you consider Prescott, who has received MVP votes in his career, worthy of the hall of fame?

This is the issue he'll have. If Russell gets in, they're gonna have to let 15 other guys in that shouldn't get in

Wilson currently ranks 23rd all time in passing yardage with 39,000+. That's less than half of what Tom Brady and Drew Brees have put up. He's in a little better standing with TD passes, currently ranked 13th, but he's behind 4 other active players, ie Brady, Rodgers, Ryan, and Stafford. Based on statistics, it's very difficult to argue that Russell is in the top 3-5 QB's of his era.

https://www.footballdb.com/leaders/career-passing-yards

That's the issue. People are hung up on a short window of time looking at his numbers. That window of time is meaningless. All that matters are career totals/ranks at time of retirement. All those, "most wins/td (or whatever) in a QBs first X years" are meaningless. They mean nothing now and will mean even less when RW's career stats are looked at.

 

[OrangeGravy]

But the guys you compared him too have mutliple years extra and volume stats don’t tell the whole story. For 10 years he was easily too 3

So what? Doesn't mean shit. If he was clearly far and away the best QB for that 10 years, maybe he gets in on that alone, but arguably in the top 5 or 3 doesn't get it done.

 

[Ozzy]

Top 3? Brady Manning and Brees... Who does RW displace for those 10 years?

For the past 3 years, there are multiple others. Perhaps there were a few of those 10 years where RCW was top 3, but not for 10.

HOF is awarded for a career, not for a portion of 10 years preceding an epic fail. There isn't a single HOF QB that played a 13 game stretch with 8 TDs. Easy answer- no.

I’m saying statistically you could make the argument he was top 3. He was top 3 in td/int %, touchdowns, passer rating, GW drives etc for a ten year period.

There have been multiple hall of fame QBs with terrible stretches.

Its early. If he rebounds next year and the next few years he’s a lock.

 

[IndyHawk]

he should have been a lock, but he had other ideas

Whoah!
looking at in in very slow motion..That's on Me3
He thew a curve with the ball and it was late..One second earlier it's a TD.
I'm saving that one it's all right there to see and it makes me sick.

 

[RiverDog]

I’m saying statistically you could make the argument he was top 3. He was top 3 in td/int %, touchdowns, passer rating, GW drives etc for a ten year period.

There have been multiple hall of fame QBs with terrible stretches.

Its early. If he rebounds next year and the next few years he’s a lock.

Russell is not top 3 statistically no matter what period of time you measure him over. In addition to Brady, Manning, and Brees, both Worthlessburger and the Weird Beard have more passing yards along with more hardware. Heck, of active players, Mathew Stafford, Matt Ryan, and Joe Flacco have better stats than Russell.

NFL Passing Yards Career Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com

1. Tom Brady (89,214), 2. Drew Brees (80,358), 3. Peyton Manning (71,940), 4. Brett Favre (71,838), 5. Ben Roethlisberger (64,088),

www.pro-football-reference.com

I honestly think that Russell is going to have to get a league MVP or SB MVP to get his gold jacket, or at the very least, another trip to the SB. There's too many other QB's in the mix, and he needs to do something to separate himself from the Flaccos and Eli's.

 

[IndyHawk]

What are his accolades outside of pro bowls of which, he only got in because other QBs dropped out?

He won the passing skills challenge?

 

[Spin Doctor]

I’m saying statistically you could make the argument he was top 3. He was top 3 in td/int %, touchdowns, passer rating, GW drives etc for a ten year period.

There have been multiple hall of fame QBs with terrible stretches.

Its early. If he rebounds next year and the next few years he’s a lock.

No he isn't, even if Wilson rebounds -- he's not a lock. In fact he's on the outside looking in at this point. Efficiency numbers are not what people are going to look at. The HOF is all about narrative. Shaun Alexander has HOF level statistics, but he's also unlikely to get in any time soon. Why? His running style and the two guys he played behind happened to be first ballot HOF lineman.

Wilson does not have a single all-pro or MVP to his name. The narrative surrounding his Super Bowl victory lied with Marshawn Lynch and the LOB defense, Wilson was merely an afterthought. In the playoffs he didn't really have many defining moments and in the SuperBowl the LOB held the NFL's most dominant offense in NFL history to a mere 8 points. In 2014, the biggest narrative was Wilson throwing a game ending interception on the one yard line.

Bulk statistics? Nope, Wilson is behind many of his contemporaries, in fact even Kirk Cousins is catching up pretty quickly there and he wasn't even a full time starter until his 4th season. Wilson didn't lead any particularly prolific offenses either. Russell Wilson's postseason record post LOB is dismal. No other QB has lost as much as he has since 2015 in the postseason.

Wilson has always been looked at with a skeptical eye by analyst and pundits. Hell, even his own teammates and some Seahawk fans alike have always looked at him with skepticism. Kurt Warner has been sounding the alarms about Wilson for years now. Earlier than that others have marveled at how rudimentary the offense that Seattle ran was.

Now, we've seen Wilson try to run the WCO offense for the past two years and he's failed miserably. He's had THE largest drop off of any QB in history from one team to the next. He's become a whipping boy for the media because of his antics and how he is conducting himself. He's also orchestrating one of the worst NFL offenses in the modern era.

So, in essence his efficiency numbers mean jack. He's not even top in his era in that regard either. Aaron Rodgers beats him there handily. His 4th quarter comebacks are also overshadowed by the fact that his postseason record post LOB is awful and the LOB themselves cast a giant shadow on anything Wilson has ever done in the NFL. Marshawn Lynch also was viewed as the leader of the offense during the Super Bowl years by the pundits.

Right now Wilson's biggest legacy is "they should have ran the ball". He's not getting in unless he has a massive turn around. His bulk numbers in the modern era aren't great, even though he has a Super Bowl, Lynch and the LOB casts a giant shadow over that. Post LOB his playoff success is horrendous, no other QB has lost more. The trade showcased all of the areas where Wilson was deficient as a player as he's failing to do even basic stuff as he orchestrates an offense that is among the worst in the modern era. Lock and Bridgewater ran a more potent offense, let that sink in for a moment. He's also putting up one of the worst records on a team that has one of the best defenses in the NFL at the moment.

Wilson's legacy is toast, you're deluding yourself if you think he is a HOFer at this point. If anything, Wilson just boosted Carroll's coaching credentials more than anything.

 

[RiverDog]

No he isn't, even if Wilson rebounds -- he's not a lock. In fact he's on the outside looking in at this point. Efficiency numbers are not what people are going to look at. The HOF is all about narrative. Shaun Alexander has HOF level statistics, but he's also unlikely to get in any time soon. Why? His running style and the two guys he played behind happened to be first ballot HOF lineman.

Wilson does not have a single all-pro or MVP to his name. The narrative surrounding his Super Bowl victory lied with Marshawn Lynch and the LOB defense, Wilson was merely an afterthought. In the playoffs he didn't really have many defining moments and in the SuperBowl the LOB held the NFL's most dominant offense in NFL history to a mere 8 points. In 2014, the biggest narrative was Wilson throwing a game ending interception on the one yard line.

Bulk statistics? Nope, Wilson is behind many of his contemporaries, in fact even Kirk Cousins is catching up pretty quickly there and he wasn't even a full time starter until his 4th season. Wilson didn't lead any particularly prolific offenses either. Russell Wilson's postseason record post LOB is dismal. No other QB has lost as much as he has since 2015 in the postseason.

Wilson has always been looked at with a skeptical eye by analyst and pundits. Hell, even his own teammates and some Seahawk fans alike have always looked at him with skepticism. Kurt Warner has been sounding the alarms about Wilson for years now. Earlier than that others have marveled at how rudimentary the offense that Seattle ran was.

Now, we've seen Wilson try to run the WCO offense for the past two years and he's failed miserably. He's had THE largest drop off of any QB in history from one team to the next. He's become a whipping boy for the media because of his antics and how he is conducting himself. He's also orchestrating one of the worst NFL offenses in the modern era.

So, in essence his efficiency numbers mean jack. He's not even top in his era in that regard either. Aaron Rodgers beats him there handily. His 4th quarter comebacks are also overshadowed by the fact that his postseason record post LOB is awful and the LOB themselves cast a giant shadow on anything Wilson has ever done in the NFL. Marshawn Lynch also was viewed as the leader of the offense during the Super Bowl years by the pundits.

Right now Wilson's biggest legacy is "they should have ran the ball". He's not getting in unless he has a massive turn around. His bulk numbers in the modern era aren't great, even though he has a Super Bowl, Lynch and the LOB casts a giant shadow over that. Post LOB his playoff success is horrendous, no other QB has lost more. The trade showcased all of the areas where Wilson was deficient as a player as he's failing to do even basic stuff as he orchestrates an offense that is among the worst in the modern era. Lock and Bridgewater ran a more potent offense, let that sink in for a moment. He's also putting up one of the worst records on a team that has one of the best defenses in the NFL at the moment.

Wilson's legacy is toast, you're deluding yourself if you think he is a HOFer at this point. If anything, Wilson just boosted Carroll's coaching credentials more than anything.

I agree with everything you said except for your second to last sentence. Russell Wilson's legacy isn't toast, at least not yet. He's 34 years old, and if the standard set by Brady is relevant, he has another 10 years. If he gets it turned around next season, which isn't a completely preposterous proposition, he can still put himself into the HOF conversation if he leads the Broncos to a Super Bowl and/or wins an MVP award.

Outside of that, you're exactly right. There was no way Russell would have gotten in based on his 2021 resume, which was only about 70% or so complete.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I agree with everything you said except for your second to last sentence. Russell Wilson's legacy isn't toast, at least not yet. He's 34 years old, and if the standard set by Brady is relevant, he has another 10 years. If he gets it turned around next season, which isn't a completely preposterous proposition, he can still put himself into the HOF conversation if he leads the Broncos to a Super Bowl and/or wins an MVP award.

Outside of that, you're exactly right. There was no way Russell would have gotten in based on his 2021 resume, which was only about 70% or so complete.

The standard set by Brady is not relevant. These players are two vastly different quarterbacks, comparing anyone to Brady is a foolish endeavour. Brady is the only one that has played this long. Even his colleagues retired long before he did or simply weren't able to play any longer. Saying Wilson is going to play 10 years longer is the same as me saying that I'm going to win the lottery tomorrow. It could happen, but the chances of it are happening are infinitely slim.

The second thing you're missing here is that Wilson and Brady are two very different types of Quarterbacks. Brady ran a 5+ second 40 when he was drafted and wasn't much of an athlete. He had to rely on honing his craft, he had no athleticism to fall back on. Brady was among the slowest players in the league when he was in his 20s. Brady had no choice but to learn the finer nuances of the position and dictate the offense from the LOS. It was either he became a field general or he flunked out of the league. Brady had no choice but to be a cerebral player.

Wilson on the other hand was completely an instinctual player. He relied on his instincts and his athleticism to get things done. At the time he was one of the quickest QB's in the league and he had the ability to start and stop on a dime. That is without even mentioning his cannon arm. He could lob the ball 80 yards down the field from some really funky positions. Wilson was a highly gifted athlete that would have likely been good at RB, WR, CB and Safety if he chose to go that route. The only measurable that wasn't elite for a QB was his size.

Wilson's game conversely relied almost entirely upon raw instinct and athleticism. It's why our offenses were always extremely hot and cold, hit and miss. He never threw INT's but he also wasn't able to move the ball consistently. He relied on big splash plays. His rare athleticism and ability to throw from weird positions, in addition to a coach that leaned into those skill sets allowed him to succeed in the NFL.

As a pure passer, Wilson is terrible. I think even a QB such as Trevor Lawrence is farther along in many respects than Wilson in the fundamentals of the game. Wilson does not do well reading defenses presnap and he's having huge issues with the mental side of football. Defense are able to game him hard at the LOS. He doesn't understand many basic elements of the game. He's performing like a young developmental backup QB, except he is 34 years old. His footwork is garbage, he doesn't feel comfortable climbing the pocket and he no longer has the ability to pull off the improvisational plays like he used to.

Wilson is not going to win an MVP, or lead the Broncos to a Super Bowl nor is he going to play until he's 45. The things that allow that have never been a part of his game. He was good because of his physical abilities which he no longer has. Wilson is a one trick pony who is about to be sent to the glue factory because he can't do said trick anymore.

Brady by contrast is like a coach on the field. He understands the game, he's developed his mechanics, game knowledge and situational awareness to the highest levels of the game. Brady plays chess while Wilson has spent his career playing tic tac toe from the mental standpoint of things. Wilson doesn't know how to even read the field properly.

Wilson is done. There is a good reason why he is leading an offense that is worse than that of the 0-16 Lions right now.

 

[Ozzy]

Whoah!
looking at in in very slow motion..That's on Me3
He thew a curve with the ball and it was late..One second earlier it's a TD.
I'm saving that one it's all right there to see and it makes me sick.

This play is entirely on kearse. If he sets his block it’s a touchdown and it’s a bang bang throw. I’ve heard multiple coaches say exactly this. I haven’t heard a single coach put this play on Russ. Lockett also widens his route too