In Defense of the Offense

[Anthony!]

Fair enough. Too long. Just could not believe what I was reading.

Well the short version of the post is this:

The offense is terrible. Bottom of the league, and for the most part, even an average offense would have won those games we lost. Given that, the blame goes on the offense. Because if the offense scores just at standard levels, we are most likely back in the driver's seat for the playoffs.

Winnable games we lost due to the offense include:

Rams
Bengals
Panthers

All are losses by a single TD or less, in games the offense failed to score more than 2 TDs.

It should also be pointed out that given the short fields and defensive takeaways in the Cards game, and because the game was lost by a single TD, the Cards loss was pretty much firmly on the offense as well.

This offense needs to be able to score more than a TD per 2 quarters, especially given we are supposed to have a franchise QB since we are paying franchise QB rates for him.

and yet all those games went the way your HC wants it, get a lead and turn it over to the defense to win. I blame both but you are getting what your HC wants

 

[scutterhawk]

Ya, I don't need no stinking stats to tell me what's wrong, because I already learned from folks here a couple Years ago, that we DON'T need any really good Quarterback to be World Champions.
Defense Wins Championships...........In other words, if we WIN, it's on the vaunted Defense, but if we LOSE, it's on the piss poor Offense.
Defense shouldn't be blamed for letting the opposition's Offense eat up a sizable lead cushion.
Defense shouldn't be blamed for miscommunication mistakes, and allowing the opposing Offenses to score at will......That's got to be the fault of our Offense. :sarcasm_off:

 

[Sgt Largent]

In our 5 losses (which we lead in the 4th Quarter):

24% of our points were scored in the 4th quarter.

55% of our points allowed were scored in the 4th quarter.

In 15 quarters, we allowed 86 points (1st through 3rd) to 91 scored.

In 5 quarters, we allowed 48 points to 22 scored.

After this, if you still believe it's all about 1 single unit of the team, might as well start talking politics or religion. It would be just as fruitful.

Doesn't mean our offense hasn't sucked in the same situations, getting shutout in 2 of the 5 losses in the 4th Q.

 

[TwistedHusky]

In our losses, how many points, on average, were scored by our offense in the :

3rd?

4th?

Those would be more telling #s than %s.

 

[kf3339]

Both sides are right on this op thread.

Our defense has taken a step back and gives up too many yards and points. Our offense is completely inept at the primary role....SCORING POINTS.....Or more specifically TD's.

If one was to weight the two, I would still put more blame on the offense, but this really is a team issue. Not just one group.

 

[Sgt Largent]

Winnable games we lost due to the offense include:

Rams
Bengals
Panthers

Rams - SEA scored 18pts in the 4th Quarter. So you must be mad that we sucked in the 1st through 3rd, where we scored 13 points.

Bengals - We scored 0 points in the 4th Quarter....and gave up 17 :1:

Panthers - We scored 3 points in the 4th Quarter. Gave up 13 points.

Now you are going to tell me that Special Teams and the Defense itself scored some of those points.

SO?

If you loan me 3000 dollars and then steal 5000 from me, you don't get to be pissed off when I call you out. (Unless you are the Government).

We had leads in all of these games late. The offense should have scored more, and the DEFENSE should have held their water...

END OF

 

[Largent80]

Weren't we supposed to kill it in the red zone this year because of the Graham trade?

 

[KiwiHawk]

I'm not saying the defense doesn't have it's share of issues, but also keep in mind the offense has been bolstered by defensive and special teams scores.

This link illustrates this:
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/offensive-point-share-pct

The Seahawks rank 31st in the NFL in the percentage of total points attributable to the offense.

We're also 26th in offensive touchdowns per game. 30th in red zone scoring attempts per game. 32nd in red zone TDs per game. 25th in 4th quarter points per game.

It's not pretty.

 

[TwistedHusky]

it should also be pointed out that two of the losses were in OT by a FG.

Those are games the offense had the ball, an opportunity to score, where a TD wins the game. In both instances, they failed not only to deliver a TD, but even a FG.

And both of those missteps by the offense directly led to the loss.

We have an offense that often cannot score at all when the chips are down, and often cannot score TDs with any consistency at all.

And the Rams and Bengals games (that turned out to be HUGELY important) are perfect examples of this failure.



As for whether the offense is getting enough 1st downs in the 4th? That was never the issue, or at least not the primary one. The primary issue is the offense is not scoring when necessary, a huge problem if you are hoping to go to the playoffs or win in them.

In all the #s covered, even the defenders of the offense concede the offense is not scoring TDs. (But other than that Ms. Lincoln how did you like the play?)

If you don't score points, you don't win in today's NFL.

 

[Hawks46]

Great post SGT. It has to many stats to garner as much attention as it should

Twisted, well that was a long post. In the last two years, any time we give up 27 or more points, we lose. Whose fault is that? Granted our Offense scored more last year, but still when we give up too many points we lose. That says Defense is to blame.

The stat is actually that Wilson is winless when the opposition scores 24 points or more. That's in 4 years.

This year, the league average defense gives up 23 points.

So if the defense has a below average game, we lose. That's on the offense.

To extrapolate further, the best defenses on record in recent years were the 2002 Bucs and the 2000 Ravens. The Bucs gave up 12.1 ppg, the Ravens were at 14. Our defense the last 3 years gave up 15, 15, and 17 ppg.

So, once again, if you have a QB, or an offense, that needs your defense to perform at historically elite levels, you have a problem, and it's not with the defense. It's a team effort, that was lost on some of us in football where it was so competitive that it sometimes became "offense vs. defense" even against each other. Thing is, you need to score points to win, and keep the other team from scoring points.

Relying on close to the NFL equivalent of a shutout every game isn't a winning formula for success. It worked for us for a couple of years, but we can see how delicate the balance of personnel is to keep a team historically elite. It's not sustainable, and we're seeing it here and now.

 

[Anthony!]

it should also be pointed out that two of the losses were in OT by a FG.

Those are games the offense had the ball, an opportunity to score, where a TD wins the game. In both instances, they failed not only to deliver a TD, but even a FG.

And both of those missteps by the offense directly led to the loss.

We have an offense that often cannot score at all when the chips are down, and often cannot score TDs with any consistency at all.

And the Rams and Bengals games (that turned out to be HUGELY important) are perfect examples of this failure.



As for whether the offense is getting enough 1st downs in the 4th? That was never the issue, or at least not the primary one. The primary issue is the offense is not scoring when necessary, a huge problem if you are hoping to go to the playoffs or win in them.

In all the #s covered, even the defenders of the offense concede the offense is not scoring TDs. (But other than that Ms. Lincoln how did you like the play?)

If you don't score points, you don't win in today's NFL.

what we have is a defense that cannot hold a lead and offense that cannot ratchet it back up once they start prevent offense. As I said its both their faults.

 

[Sgt Largent]

it should also be pointed out that two of the losses were in OT by a FG.

Thosewho are games the offense had the ball, an opportunity to score, where a TD wins the game. In both instances, they failed not only to deliver a TD, but even a FG.

And both of those missSeattleteps by the offense directly led to the loss.

We have an offense that often cannot score at all when the chips are down, and often cannot score TDs with any consistency at all.

And the Rams and Bengals games (that turned out to be HUGELY important) are perfect examples of this failure.



As for whether the offense is getting enough 1st downs in the 4th? That was never the issue, or at least not the primary one. The primary issue is the offense is not scoring when necessary, a huge problem if you are hoping to go to the playoffs or win in them.

In all the #s covered, even the defenders of the offense concede the offense is not scoring TDs. (But other than that Ms. Lincoln how did you like the play?)

If you don't score points, you don't win in today's NFL.

Did they alter the rules to subtract any points not scored by the offense to determine who truly won? Who scored the points is irrelevant when concerned with end result. Let's treat the 4th quarters of those 3 losses that are "directly attributable"to the offense to illustrate a point.

Seattle gave up 37 points through 3 quarters. The Saints, the worst defense in the league, gives up 31 points a game. This board was on fire bemoaning the fact that our offense was tiring our defense out with their ineptitude. Numbers were given to show that our defense is in the top 10 for least amount of plays on the field.

No excuses have been made for the offenses inability to live up to their end, but the defense is living in a glass house and should be careful with those rocks.

It is also your contention that failure of a singular event, the overtime drive that did not result in points, should accept 100% of the loss, yet the 3 scoring drives surrendered in the 4th quarter should be held blameless.

I think I'm the one that can't believe what I'm reading.

 

[Sgt Largent]

[quotwith a caveate="Anthony!"]

it should also be pointed out that two of the losses were in OT by a FG.

Those are games the offense had the ball, an opportunity to score, where a TD wins the game. In both instances, they failed not only to deliver a TD, but even a FG.

And both of those missteps by the offense directly led to the loss.

We have an offense that often cannot score at all when the chips are down, and often cannot score TDs with any consistency at all.

And the Rams and Bengals games (that turned out to be HUGELY important) are perfect examples of this failure.



As for whether the offense is getting enough 1st downs in the 4th? That was never the issue, or at least not the primary one. The primary issue is the offense is not scoring when necessary, a huge problem if you are hoping to go to the playoffs or win in them.

In all the #s covered, even the defenders of the offense concede the offense is not scoring TDs. (But other than that Ms. Lincoln how did you like the play?)

If you don't score points, you don't win in today's NFL.

what we have is a defense that cannot hold a lead and offense that cannot ratchet it back up once they start prevent offense. As I said its both their faults.[/quote]

YES! With a caveat. I don't think we are in prevent offense, just that we are terribly inconsistent and can't seem to muster sustained success offensively.

 

[Sgt Largent]

Great post SGT. It has to many stats to garner as much attention as it should

Twisted, well that was a long post. In the last two years, any time we give up 27 or more points, we lose. Whose fault is that? Granted our Offense scored more last year, but still when we give up too many points we lose. That says Defense is to blame.

The stat is actually that Wilson is winless when the opposition scores 24 points or more. That's in 4 years.

This year, the league average defense gives up 23 points.

So if the defense has a below average game, we lose. That's on the offense.

To extrapolate further, the best defenses on record in recent years were the 2002 Bucs and the 2000 Ravens. The Bucs gave up 12.1 ppg, the Ravens were at 14. Our defense the last 3 years gave up 15, 15, and 17 ppg.

So, once again, if you have a QB, or an offense, that needs your defense to perform at historically elite levels, you have a problem, and it's not with the defense. It's a team effort, that was lost on some of us in football where it was so competitive that it sometimes became "offense vs. defense" even against each other. Thing is, you need to score points to win, and keep the other team from scoring points.

Relying on close to the NFL equivalent of a shutout every game isn't a winning formula for success. It worked for us for a couple of years, but we can see how delicate the balance of personnel is to keep a team historically elite. It's not sustainable, and we're seeing it here and now.

Misuse of that stat. Do you think the 150 points we scored over 3 weeks could have survived a 24+ game by the opponent? How bout the Atlanta playoff game? Did we need an historic defense to win that one? Superbowl 49? We all agree the offense completely hosed us right? But we also have up two eleventyone play touchdown drives in the 4th quarter leading by 10.

The whole point of the OP was reinforce the idea that teams win and lose games, not individual units.

 

[justafan]

I think you could say both carry the weight of the losses.In several losses if the offense gets a couple of 1st downs we win.If the D makes 1 stop we win.

One of my favorite things is when an O has the ability to grind it down their throats with a 6 minute drive to put it away when they know whats coming and cant stop it This oline hasnt been able to do that.

 

[Sgt Largent]

I think you could say both carry the weight of the losses.In several losses if the offense gets a couple of 1st downs we win.If the D makes 1 stop we win.

One of my favorite things is when an O has the ability to grind it down their throats with a 6 minute drive to put it away when they know whats coming and cant stop it This oline hasnt been able to do that.

Agree.

 

[Scottemojo]

Weren't we supposed to kill it in the red zone this year because of the Graham trade?

THis post got ignored in the flame war, but it sums up the real issue. Talent, but no use of talent in the RZ.

 

[TwistedHusky]

And that Scott, is really the big issue.

Both the offense AND the defense are inconsistent. Ridiculously so.

The question is how, with so much talent, does this team struggle to be consistent?

More importantly, why?

And I think the we have been spinning in circles arguing about the problem with the leaves, when the real issue is a root problem - a problem that affects both the offense and defense, and more importantly seems to impact it more this year than last

 

[sutz]

I think you could say both carry the weight of the losses.In several losses if the offense gets a couple of 1st downs we win.If the D makes 1 stop we win.

One of my favorite things is when an O has the ability to grind it down their throats with a 6 minute drive to put it away when they know whats coming and cant stop it This oline hasnt been able to do that.

This is pretty much where I'm at on this argument. Stats are nice, but often don't tell the whole story. The problems I see are more situational. Our pts scored/given up ratio in the 4th quarter sux. Whether you want to blame O or D is largely personal preference, I guess. Personally, I go about 60/40 O/D, because every 1st down is 2-3 minutes off the clock, a score is like burning 3-4 minutes of clock time. Often, it's about desire as much as execution. Especially if you have a 3rd and 1. A running team should be able to make that 70% of the time or more IMHO. And yes, I pulled that number out of my ass, but I think it's true.

 

[Siouxhawk]

I think you could say both carry the weight of the losses.In several losses if the offense gets a couple of 1st downs we win.If the D makes 1 stop we win.

One of my favorite things is when an O has the ability to grind it down their throats with a 6 minute drive to put it away when they know whats coming and cant stop it This oline hasnt been able to do that.

I think we did that pretty well against Dallas to close that puppy out.