Holy Crap: Browns nearly traded with 49ers for Jim Harbaugh

[Smelly McUgly]

No, no, you guys are saying, "There's probably some tension, but..." We're just leaving off the "but..." part.

I get why you're doing that, but let's be honest about what you're doing.

While you're here, speaking of LMJ, why don't Harbaugh/Roman use him like Darren Sproles? They run him between the tackles when it's obvious that they need to get him moving outside the tackles. The 49ers don't have much of a screen game from my viewing of some 49er games on Rewind. Is that just a coaching thing where Harbaugh doesn't utilize those types of plays?

Anyway, they should split LMJ wide too. He has the hands to create mismatches if they split him wide and LBs are forced to cover him.

 

[drdiags]

That's the thing with the FO vs coaches thing. With so many highly charged egos in the make-up of a team and its front office, power vs cooperation is just part of the environment. We have seen a few decades of this with Knox vs Behring's duds, Holmgren vs Whitsett, Ruskell and eventually Paul's right hand confidant. You see the issues Pioli had in KC, with a very paranoid environment.

I think teams are lucky when they find a brief calm in the storm before the next turmoil boils up. I remember when Dan Arkush was reporting in yr 2 that John and Pete were having issues and used the fiasco with the Fullback that thought he was coming onto the squad to show their dysfunction. I didn't want to hear it. How much any of that was close to the truth, who knows. They denied the allegations and gave Mr Arkush an exclusive interview where he soft-pedaled a little.

The number of leaks in the various organizations is another issue, though these leaks can be used to push an agenda. Not sure how the 9ers talks with Jim H will turn out but I am sure if I was a fan I would hope the side-show ended soon. Otherwise the attention will remain on this issue all off-season, until the next shiny object shows up.

 

[Marvin49]

No, no, you guys are saying, "There's probably some tension, but..." We're just leaving off the "but..." part.

I get why you're doing that, but let's be honest about what you're doing.

While you're here, speaking of LMJ, why don't Harbaugh/Roman use him like Darren Sproles? They run him between the tackles when it's obvious that they need to get him moving outside the tackles. The 49ers don't have much of a screen game from my viewing of some 49er games on Rewind. Is that just a coaching thing where Harbaugh doesn't utilize those types of plays?

Anyway, they should split LMJ wide too. He has the hands to create mismatches if they split him wide and LBs are forced to cover him.

You aren't the only one wondering that in regard to the screen game. Only answer I can give is that Roman doesn't seem to like screens all that much.

 

[Fudwamper]

Yep this stinks of the Holmgren, whitsett, and Ruskell fiasco. The big loser is the franchise. Implosion in 3....2......

 

[Popeyejones]

While you're here, speaking of LMJ, why don't Harbaugh/Roman use him like Darren Sproles? They run him between the tackles when it's obvious that they need to get him moving outside the tackles. The 49ers don't have much of a screen game from my viewing of some 49er games on Rewind. Is that just a coaching thing where Harbaugh doesn't utilize those types of plays?

They don't use him much, that's true. They don't run him between the tackles though. In his rookie year they brought him in for read/option stuff as a special package with Kaep while Smith was still QB. Since then they've predominantly run him outside the tackles. As for not using him, I think it's a combination of two things: they just don't rotate that much as a team, and he's third on the depth chart because Gore and Hunter are both as accomplished as runners and are better pass blockers.

They don't use him like the Saints use Sproles for the same reason the Hawks won't do this. It's an entirely different offense. The Saints are putting four and five people out wide pretty regularly. They're spreading people out and using a RB and Graham out wide to keep LBs on the field. The Hawks and 9ers are both run first. If they want or need to go four wide they put their receivers out there and leave their RB in to pass block or to check down.

You're absolutely right about noticing the lack of screens. You could probably count the RB screens per year on one hand. It's not really something they do, but it's also not something they have much success with when they do it. They'd MUCH rather use play action to slow the rush than use screens.

Anyway, they should split LMJ wide too. He has the hands to create mismatches if they split him wide and LBs are forced to cover him.

They don't split him out wide because if someone is splitting out wide it's a TE, because they run a ton of play action which a split out rb doesn't allow for, because they disproportionately leave their rbs into pass block, and because for better or for worse the passing game is based on decoys clearing out space for a primary receiver, which save for the wheel route they run with Gore a few times a year just isn't going to be a RB.

IMO he's a decent player who started kind of slow, lost some trust, and is in a bad situation. I think he truly, truly was a value-pick (simply the highest rated player on the board) and now they don't know what to do with him.

FWIW Marvin and I are probably more circumspect on Lattimore than 90% of 9ers fans, but I'm also an outlier in thinking that right now is the time to move on from Gore.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

Ah, but Seattle splits Lynch out on five-wides sometimes, so that can't be completely it unless SF is somehow more committed to the run than we are. Thanks for the responses (both of you), however.

 

[Popeyejones]

Ah, but Seattle splits Lynch out on five-wides sometimes, so that can't be completely it unless SF is somehow more committed to the run than we are. Thanks for the responses (both of you), however.

Ah, okay, didn't remember that. Gore is very rarely split out wide too, but it's not a big part of the offense. I think the real thing is he'd have to be in the game on offense to be split out wide, but even if he were, I don't think they'd be doing that. The Hawks' strategy in the passing game is very different from the 9ers (and better IMO). The 9ers lean much more heavily on play action and designed intermediate and long routes, whereas when passing the Hawks still use this stuff, but also incorporate some of the more traditional WCO passing attack than the 9ers do. The Hawks are just going for short, high percentage passes MUCH, MUCH more than the 9ers. For instance, save for third downs and "and goal" situations you almost never see the 9ers running slants, whereas it's a bigger part of the Hawks' pass game.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

Heh, Popeye, not to pick nits at you, but we really didn't run much of a short passing game at numerous points this year. We were going for all-or-nothing plays off of slow-developing longer routes quite a bit. So that sounds like what SF does too.

The major difference that I know between our offense and yours is that Roman designs plays with a single receiver that is targeted, an outlet (like Gore out of the backfield), and then a bunch of decoy receivers, which you mentioned briefly above. There's that and that you all apparently don't have plays in the playbook to really split receivers wide. To be approximate, I don't remember seeing SF run five-wides once in the games that I've seen for y'all last year, and that's a formation we run plays out of surprisingly often for such a run-first team.

 

[Popeyejones]

Heh, Popeye, not to pick nits at you, but we really didn't run much of a short passing game at numerous points this year. We were going for all-or-nothing plays off of slow-developing longer routes quite a bit. So that sounds like what SF does too.

14% of Wilson's throws were behind the line of scrimmage this year compared to 6% for Kaepernick. 42% of Kaepernick's throws were over 10 yards this year compared to 37% for Wilson. Agreed the Hawks definitely incorporate in play action and slower developing longer routes more than a traditional WCO passing attack, but they definitely focus more in the short passing game (particularly behind the LOS) more than the 9ers.

And yeah, can't remember the last time I've seen the 9ers run five wide. Was probably before Harbaugh, and maybe before Singletary too (although I kinda remember Sing doing this with Troy Smith; god the 9ers sucked ).

 

[Sports Hernia]

Ah, so it's the media's fault. Got it. :34853_doh: :roll:
I think you and your buddy Marv are going to be the most shocked/stunned when the crap really hits the fan down there and someone gets canned/quits.

????

Are you serious or just trolling?

(Followed by blah blah blah blah)

:34853_doh:
Isn't that an ironic question coming from you of all people.

When you get done spinning spinning and spinning and fall down.
Let's us know, and we'll be nice enough to help you up! :snack:

 

[Sports Hernia]

Smelly:

Just saw your post above after posting mine. Look at Marvin's post before yours and my post that was written concurrently.

Honestly, it's like you're not even reading what we're writing and are just taking potshots at us off of bizarre caricatures you've constructed for stupid and pathetic 9ers fans. It's really not productive, IMO.

The victim role doesn't suit you or Marvin, if you don't like it here, you are always free to leave, nothing is stopping you.

 

[hoxrox]

This is not media hype, nor a power play for leverage in contract negotiations. There's definitely some dysfunction on that team between the coach, the GM, the team president and the VP of football operations.

There's disagreement in how much they want to pay the coach, and how much he thinks he should be paid. This can be worked out and is not that big of a deal.

There's also fundamental differences in how they evaluate personnel, and in their team building philosophy. This is the bigger deal, in my opinion.

That's exactly the situation Carroll did not want to get into when he rejected other NFL coaching offers. We're very fortunate that Carroll and the rest of the FO are on the same page.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Eye on Football ‏@EyeOnNFL 7h
From @JasonLaCanfora:There's increasing buzz that the 49ers might have to decide between Jim Harbaugh or Trent Baalke http://cbsprt.co/1k4fz5J

"Things are not getting better behind the scenes for the San Francisco 49ers. There was a persistent rumble throughout the combine about the extent of the rift between coach Jim Harbaugh and the team's front office. It doesn't seem like it will go away, and there is increasing buzz that the team might have to decide between Harbaugh or GM Trent Baalke.

The men are barely speaking, I'm told, and almost all communication is through email. Harbaugh also has a strained relationship with team president Paraag Marathe, sources said, and he has clashed with many within the organization. It could prove untenable. If anything, the impression I got this week was that the situation there is actually much worse than how it has been portrayed in the media, and helps explain the delay in giving a new deal to the coach, who has two years left on a contract he has outperformed."

Wow. He wants us banned because we defend our team? Jeez. That's rich.

No -- I want a Seahawks forum to be for Seahawks fans. You post on here more than anyone else at the moment. ANY thread that has the Niners in it, you're all over it. It turns every thread into an argument. Instead of Hawks fans just revelling in the occasional bad news story for the Niners, we have to put up with your "there are no tanks in Baghdad" defense.

The mod's need to put a cap on this. This isn't the webzone or Niner Nation.

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^The La Canfora link was posted on the last page and folks have been discussing it. Marvin and I both said it was damning, and I even came back and pulled the part about Marathe to say that it sounds particularly true. We got on LMJ because I suggested he might be one of the many sources of tension.

Maybe you would have known this if you were posting on the topic rather than just breezing in and out to attack posters? #jussaying

(also, seriously, I thought the Smack Shack was for just having fun and trashing people and NFL Talk was for serious discusion. Is that wrong? I don't go in Smack Shack because I'm here for the good football convo that happens).

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

(also, seriously, I thought the Smack Shack was for just having fun and trashing people and NFL Talk was for serious discusion. Is that wrong? I don't go in Smack Shack because I'm here for the good football convo that happens).

I don't consider completely biased, staunch defense of the Niners 'good football convo'. If I wanted to read that, I'd go on the webzone. You're not as bad to be fair -- but Marvin's turning up in every thread that has barely any mention of the Niners. And I know I'm not the only one who's fed up of having threads turn into Marvin vs the world.

At the end of the day, it's a Seahawks forum for Seahawks fans. And sometimes it'd be nice to enjoy a Niners-related thread without the Black Knight telling everyone it's just a flesh wound.

 

[volsunghawk]

(also, seriously, I thought the Smack Shack was for just having fun and trashing people and NFL Talk was for serious discusion. Is that wrong? I don't go in Smack Shack because I'm here for the good football convo that happens).

I don't consider completely biased, staunch defense of the Niners 'good football convo'. If I wanted to read that, I'd go on the webzone. You're not as bad to be fair -- but Marvin's turning up in every thread that has barely any mention of the Niners. And I know I'm not the only one who's fed up of having threads turn into Marvin vs the world.

At the end of the day, it's a Seahawks forum for Seahawks fans. And sometimes it'd be nice to enjoy a Niners-related thread without the Black Knight telling everyone it's just a flesh wound.

I don't mind the different perspective that Marvin and Popeye (among a few others) bring. They defend their team, sure, but they're not trolls. And some of the vitriol spewed at them here from our Seahawks brethren is far worse than anything they've put on this board.

So just because they're Niners fans, we can't treat them with decency and talk a little football? If they're willing to have rational discussion (which it seems they are for the most part), that's better than an echo chamber of 12s. And hell, some of the 12s here will turn on their own if they take an unpopular viewpoint (see the "real fans" posts).

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

So just because they're Niners fans, we can't treat them with decency and talk a little football? If they're willing to have rational discussion (which it seems they are for the most part), that's better than an echo chamber of 12s. And hell, some of the 12s here will turn on their own if they take an unpopular viewpoint (see the "real fans" posts).

I'm just joshing with the Niners fans Volsung. No biggie.

I doubt we'll see many on here when the new season begins, during Harbaugh's lame duck season...

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

The number of leaks in the various organizations is another issue, though these leaks can be used to push an agenda. Not sure how the 9ers talks with Jim H will turn out but I am sure if I was a fan I would hope the side-show ended soon. Otherwise the attention will remain on this issue all off-season, until the next shiny object shows up.

"Until the next shiny object shows up? Shiny object? They haven't had a shiny object show up there since the mid-90s. With this dysfunction, who knows how long it'll be before the next one does.

 

[JonRud]

I called into Ross Tucker's show on Sirius NFL Radio around 6:55am ET this morning and told him the Seahawks will throw in our 1st round draft pick this year for Jim Harbaugh to get traded to Cleveland.

 

[Sarlacc83]

I called into Ross Tucker's show on Sirius NFL Radio around 6:55am ET this morning and told him the Seahawks will throw in our 1st round draft pick this year for Jim Harbaugh to get traded to Cleveland.

No way. It's far too much fun watching his histrionics and his failures....

I guess he'd have been perfect for Cleveland, huh?