Harvin compensation: 6th round pick that can become a 4th

[HOLLYWOOD]

Dude was super over paid.. super.. getting him off the books does this team better going forward than with him and his extremely bloated contract.

 

[Bobblehead]

Interesting, the Jets got Percy Harvin for at most a fourth rounder.

Meanwhile, the Seahawks gave up First, Third, and Seventh Round picks and paid Harvin $18 million in signing bonus and additional salary-- $9 million of that will be dead money with much of it felt next season.

Harvin's cap hit no longer looks as bloated once you remove the prorated signing bonus and potential dead money if they decide to cut him after this season. There's no risk for them because they can cut him after this year without a dead money hit. Doubt they could have done better with a 4th Rounder. Looks like an amazing deal for the Jets and whomever their next head coach will be.

\
Don't be so short sighted

We also gave up Clemons, Bryant, Tate and missed out of Patterson to get Harvin.

that FO screw up really really hurt.

 

[nanomoz]

lol unreal. Man did the Vikes fleece us.

Really? I forget, did they win the Lombardi last year? Did those picks and all that money put a dagger in the Broncos heart at the beginning of the second half?

Percy helped us win the Lombardi, so as far as I'm Concerned, money well spent. And now we just cleared some cap space and a roster space.

I'd wager that Coradelle Patterson could have contributed a whole lot more than Percy over the course of the season/playoffs. Those of you denying we got fleeced are completely overlooking the potential impact of the player drafted with that pick.

 

[YYZHawksFan]

Just my 2 cents but when your trade a person like this for picks in the place they have, you clearly want to get rid of him. That said, the run after half time is perhaps one that put the game in the books so I would suggest it was money well spent to have him contribute to 48 win.

 

[mikeak]

lol unreal. Man did the Vikes fleece us.

Fleeced. All we got is a stupid Lombardi, a fulfilled lifelong dream and the memories to go along with it. And they got... wait, what did they get? :229031_confused2:

Let's be honest now. The trade for Harvin contributed more to lowering the probability of a potential dynasty (by giving up a First Round pick and $18 million and saddling the team with $9 million in dead money) than it did to winning the Lombardi.

Where do you get $9 million dead money from?

From what I can tell Jets takes salary this year ie $7 million. That money rolls over to next year and pays the cap hit of 3/5*12million signing bonus. Basically means no extra cost over current salary due to the rollover.

If we had kept Harvin then we pay the salary this year plus dead hit of about $7million.

 

[AgentDib]

The Harvin move obviously didn't work out but you can't judge stuff just based on a couple of outcomes. Great ideas can fail and terrible ones can prosper; if a janitor wins the lottery it doesn't mean that spending his life savings on tickets was a good idea, luck just bailed him out of a poor decision.

This ends up on the list of Pete and John moves as a bad outcome, but if you want to evaluate them it should be on their whole body of work. Right now they probably have a below average grade on acquiring receivers but that could change (or get worse) depending on how Richardson and Norwood are mixed in over the next two seasons.

 

[hawknation2014]

lol unreal. Man did the Vikes fleece us.

Fleeced. All we got is a stupid Lombardi, a fulfilled lifelong dream and the memories to go along with it. And they got... wait, what did they get? :229031_confused2:

Let's be honest now. The trade for Harvin contributed more to lowering the probability of a potential dynasty (by giving up a First Round pick and $18 million and saddling the team with $9 million in dead money) than it did to winning the Lombardi.

Where do you get $9 million dead money from?

From what I can tell Jets takes salary this year ie $7 million. That money rolls over to next year and pays the cap hit of 3/5*12million signing bonus. Basically means no extra cost over current salary due to the rollover.

If we had kept Harvin then we pay the salary this year plus dead hit of about $7million.

The dead money hit is the $9.6 million remainder of his signing bonus that the Seahawks are obligated to count against the cap over the next two seasons because they traded Harvin. $2.4 million in 2014 and $7.2 million in 2015.

Had they kept Harvin, there would have been no dead money. The $9.6 million in remaining signing bonus would have been prorated over the remainder of his contract had they kept him.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/percy-harvin/

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

If Harvin was cut after 2015, the Seahawks would still owe $7.2 million would they not, unless they designated him a June 1st cut, in which it would be $2.4m in '15, $4.8m in '16.

So the Jets took the rest of Harvin's 2014 Salary which rounds up to about $7.2 m.

Which would have been a sunk cost if we had kept him. So that money saved is theorhetically is his dead money at least about $7.2m of $9.6m of it . You'd just roll it over.

So now if you wanted to calculate cap relief for 2015: 10.5 (Harvin's BS) - 2.4 (remaining DC) = $8.1m

That probably equals the difference you'd need for Wagner and Sweezy extenstions and a Kearse re-signing (RFA).

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Also, unlike others I'm not really mad about the trade but that $18 million lost over what will technically be 3 seasons, not 2 hurts.

And like others have stated, who knows what the Seahawks do with it then, some of the 10 Seahawks lost over the last year would be here today.

But that trade, a lot of it was just getting into a bidding war with SFO, which is the price of doing business sometimes. Keeping a rival from obtaining a play-maker.

In terms of value in 2013 Seahawks gave up:

1st Round Pick
4th Round Pick (= 3rd Round for 2014)
7th Round Pick

Frankly, the way I saw it was, you could negate the 7th rounder because I believe it was the pick we got for T-Jack and he ended up back in Seattle on a cheaper deal.

And I also don't think the 3rd Rounder was much of an issue because at #32 Seahawks wanted Paul Richardson, they traded down twice in what became two 4th rounders and got Paul Richardson at #45.

One of those 4ths were from the Vikes.

And frankly it's believable that Marsh would have been our 3rd round pick, had we had one. And the Seahawks might have only been dealing down was to get back mid-round pick they didn't have. So from the draft perspective, I feel like the Seahawks got what they wanted, even if they had their 3rd rounder.

So, for me in hindsight, the lost 3rd rounder also negates for the most part.

Now, its pretty much weighing the cost of that 1st round pick and what we will eventually get for that 4th-6th rounder.

If anything positive that came out of this trade, as horrible as it was:

1. A clear message that the Seahawks will NOT tolerate selfish viotile headcases, no matter what the investment was.

2. Russell Wilson is special, and the Seahawks feel the same way, and have his back and now the entire lockerroom knows it. Right now, the shake up has that 50/50 bad feel, good feel vibe to it but I think down the road, a year or two from now, this is Russell Wilson's team 100%.

3. Mistakes are only opportunities to learn from. You're not always going to be right, but knowing when you're wrong and admitting it and moving on quickly... just shows how great JS/PC is. Its never about them or their egos getting in the way. They aren't going to push a square peg through a circluar hole. They gave Harvin a chance, and it was his ego that got in the way.

4. And again its about the message, Seahawks are not going to tolerate players like Harvin on this team. Big time message to a group of players who might of been getting complacent.

 

[bjornanderson21]

You guys are so negative.

That's not negative. If we were talking Tate here then yeah we could say he helped greatly in getting to the dance and winning it all. That just does not hold any water with Harvin. So we gave up a lot for a little. That's just facing facts.

Are you seriously saying that you believe we do not win the Superbowl without Percy Harvin last year?

No, I'm saying we won it with him so looking at it any other way is fruitless and negative.

Do you have difficulty distinguishing between correlation and causation?

If Percy being here did not *cause* us to win it, then we may well have won it anyhow yet retained pieces like Red, Clem, and Tate who in fact did *cause* us to win it. Looking at it that way is actually rational and productive in that the next time you are on the verge of such a trade you look back on this as a mistake and it informs future behavior.

I love rational thought that follows a clear and concise logic.

People come up with the most irrational things to avoid having to accept harsh truths.

Instead of admitting that the Harvin trade HURT the team, there are actually people who associate the trade with the super bowl so that the Lombardi trophy can wash away all the sins that the person chooses to ignore.

We could've had Tate who played a big part in getting us there, and we'd still have money left over and more draft picks.

Unbelievable. ...

 

[HawkFan72]

So frustrating when we give up a 1st 3rd and 7th for Percy Harvin and get a 4th-6th in return. Meanwhile the 49ers give up a 6th for Anquan Boldin.

I feel like EVERY team gets better deals than us.

Even with problem players. Remember the Dolphins had to dump Brandon Marshall because he was trouble for them too? TWO 3rd rounders from the Bears.

Yet whenever we are going to move a player, I feel like we don't get good value, trouble or not. It's always a 4th rounder or less.

JS made some awesome deals his first year here. It's almost like every other GM is afraid to trade with him now unless they barely give up anything.

 

[xgeoff]

I have no problem with us getting rid of Harvin if he is a locker room problem, but I don't think we should downplay the effect that Harvin has on a game (including the SB). His stats may be bad, but that is primarily due to offensive line penalties. Harvin had 3 touchdowns called back against the Redskins alone.

Harvin can break open a game at any moment, and getting *maybe* a fourth round pick for that kind of talent is ridiculous.

Right now there are fundamental issues with the Seahawks, namely that the Offensive Line is getting their ass kicked and the defense has no_pass_rush_whatsoever.

I have faith in Schneider and Carroll, I am not too worried. But the draft has been hit and miss:

-- Bruce Irvin has turned into a decent Linebacker, but not a #1 edge rusher. He is a terrible pass rusher.
-- James Carpenter was a reach. I said it at the time of the draft. He is a better guard than a tackle, but he gets thrown around like a rag doll sometimes. Same with Sweezy, though we didn't spend as much on Sweezy. Frankly, we've gotten more value out of Sweezy than from Carpenter

I liked the Harvin trade to get him. For the first time in forever we had a dynamic playmaker, which this offense could really use. In the super bowl we saw what the offense could do when everyone was doing their job.

Now he's gone and I just really can't believe we couldn't get something better for him. Maybe, maybe we might get a 4th round draft choice? For one of the fastest receivers in the league? In a league famous for GM's willing to take a chance on great athletes?

Very disappointing.

 

[Tokadub]

I'm just going to say this as a neutral opinion not supporting either side of this discussion, I don't wanna get sucked into this one even though I disagree with one of the sides.

In my opinion Harvin's most important game for us was against the Saints in the playoffs. Our Offense was dominating in the first half with Harvin (16-0 lead at halftime), but we nearly lost in the second half without him and didn't even score in the 3rd quarter.

Actually saying that we were dominating in the 1st half is a bit of an exaggeration, without Harvin we may have not scored on more than 1 of those drives. We'll never know for sure what the plays would of been without him...

That is the ONLY game I think Harvin could of changed the outcome, just wanted to bring that up since everyone always mentions the Super Bowl which I don't think any of our offensive players could of changed the outcome unless Wilson threw like 5 interceptions...

 

[v1rotv2]

Interesting, the Jets got Percy Harvin for at most a fourth rounder.

Meanwhile, the Seahawks gave up First, Third, and Seventh Round picks and paid Harvin $18 million in signing bonus and additional salary-- $9 million of that will be dead money with much of it felt next season.

Harvin's cap hit no longer looks as bloated once you remove the prorated signing bonus and potential dead money if they decide to cut him after this season. Looks like an amazing deal for the Jets and whomever their next head coach will be.

It's in all honesty a very good deal for the Jets. They pay him for this season and if he doesn't work out, all they lose is a 6th with no dead money when they cut him. If they keep him on the team...well that's another thing, but if he does make it for year 2, I'll assume that he panned out. Their team is 1-6, coach on hot seat, GM on hot seat, not much worse can happen, but we'll see. I see it as a 9 game test trial.

I don't know if it was a good deal for them or not. How much does a broken locker cost a team?

 

[captSE]

No team is immune to draft busts. JS N PC have been pretty good at finding good people especially in later rounds.

 

[xgeoff]

No team is immune to draft busts. JS N PC have been pretty good at finding good people especially in later rounds.

I would go so far as to say that the Seahawks are WAY better with their late round picks. Of their 1st rounders, I would say that only Earl Thomas has been worth it. Okung and Irvin are OK, but not 1st round material.

In the 2nd round, Bobby Wagner has been epic, Golden Tate was good.

3rd round, Russell might be one of the best 3rd round picks ever. Jordan Hill was a great pick, he looks like he's going to be terrific.

And that's about it for the top 3 rounds.

From 4-7, and even with undrafted free agents, that is where these guys shine.

 

[Mojambo]

You're underrating Okung and Irvin, both of whom have performed at 1st round levels (Irvin only recently), IMHO.

 

[xgeoff]

Ultimately Harvin was a bad fit for this team. He was a locker room distraction and Bevell seemed to struggle to find ways to use him, despite having early success with him. So yeah, we're better off without him.

However, from the business side of things, Harvin was a special talent, and to assert that none of the yahoo general managers in the NFL would have taken a chance on that kind of talent for, say, a third round pick is ridiculous. GM's take a chance on guys with special talent every year in the draft.

Heck Tyrann Matheiu was supposed to be a problem child, and the Cards selected him in the 3rd round. And he is nowhere even close to being the kind of impact player Harvin is. NFL History is full of GM's taking chance after chance with problem players, and paying a lot to do so. Harvin could score at any time, from any where.

Recall he had 3 TD's called back in one game. The guy is electric, he's special. I think PC and JS made a great decision to take a chance on him. I also think they made an amazing decision to get rid of him.

But, IMO, they could have gotten more than a 4th round pick for him...

 

[xgeoff]

You're underrating Okung and Irvin, both of whom have performed at 1st round levels (Irvin only recently), IMHO.

We're going to have to agree to disagree about that In the time we've been chatting I think we just had another false start penalty called on Okung

 

[BlueTalon]

Interesting. This conversation carried right on, just as if there wasn't a three month gap in it.


(We need a zombie smiley.)