Gruden on Carroll's triangle formation

[vin.couve12]

Anyone catch Gruden's explanation of the Hawks using triangle formations in the secondary coverage? I think he was describing Seattle's approach to zone coverage. I only caught a part of it.

I thought it was an interesting observation and, while I may have missed it, I haven't read much here about it in the past. I know Gruden puts a lot of time watching game tape before a game.

Like many in the NFL, I've been trying to figure out our approach to the secondary especially when we go into zone coverage. Anyone else catch Gruden's piece and expand on what he was saying?

Bing "cover 3". There is a lot of information on the web concerning the subject. Lots of diagrams, pictures and text. The Gruden noted difference was that most other teams have their cornerbacks play off coverage. Seahawk cornerbacks like to play up in the face of wide outs. (Press coverage)

A lot of the time we use press, but not always. You'll sometimes see our corners bail at the last second or even play off. You can't make it too easy on the QB. Many want to believe there are always these set things and maybe for a few things here and there it is that way, but you won't want to tip your hat as to whether you're in man or zone or which zone even. The corners can be a tell. Teams don't normally go press in cover 3 because if the WR gets a clean release and beats the jam the corner is playing catch up down the sideline. Hence one of the reasons why that deep safety has to be deeper than anyone else.

But we don't always do this or always do that. You can't. Many don't believe so (especially soccer fans for some reason), but football is the most complex sport out there. Every strategy, every playcall, every design....they can all be beaten. It can't be obvious what you're doing.

 

[Jac]

On a side note, they were referencing Gruden's triangle analysis on Redskins radio last night. They were lamenting the fact that despite being two corners down, the Seahawks could just plug in backups and continue to play super aggressive secondary...while their guys play passively and don't even have the necessary talent to field a starting unit. Living in the DC area, the dichotomy of that roster situation always makes me happy because Shanahan was hired at the same time Carroll was. You could write a book on the do's and dont's of roster building between those two teams over that period.

 

[Throwdown]

Triangles + killing saints = illuminati

We got initiated on Monday night, Super Bowl is ours now.

REJOICE!

 

[Atradees]

On a side note, they were referencing Gruden's triangle analysis on Redskins radio last night. They were lamenting the fact that despite being two corners down, the Seahawks could just plug in backups and continue to play super aggressive secondary...while their guys play passively and don't even have the necessary talent to field a starting unit. Living in the DC area, the dichotomy of that roster situation always makes me happy because Shanahan was hired at the same time Carroll was. You could write a book on the do's and dont's of roster building between those two teams over that period.

Shhhhh! I dont want the owner of the Redskins waiving his checkbook at our front office.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Hah! Nobody could leave the Seahawks for that organization and still have their soul intact. :mrgreen:

 

[EntiatHawk]

Like vin.couve12 said we use press man a lot single high safety. But what is cool is they use that look then switch into something else at the last minute such as cover two. We were playing with the Saints on Monday. I have not gone back and done my second watching to really look at the plays but I remember see us drop into three man fronts and dropping linemen into underneath zone on several plays there. The Hawks were on Monday.

Also A huge shoutout to KJ Wright, that dude played a great game. He was tough in coverage and destroyed a several screen plays. So much for our LB's being so weak in that area. Ever since the Tampa game we have played a much better defense.

Also would like to know how many shut outs of the second half we had this year. Seems we have done very well there. I remember see a stat that we have out scored our opponet by 90 some point in the 4 quarter. That is a good stat to have.

 

[taz291819]

Another guy who is naturally entertaining but doesn't have grudens knowledge is ray Lewis.

Im fairly certain that I heard Ray Lewis call #24 "Marchell Lynch" last nite, and he did it more than once. Anybody else catch it?[/quote]

I heard it, but I think it was due to it being cold outside. All of them were having problems pronouncing words. It was either the cold, or they were all tipsy.

 

[Scottemojo]

Another guy who is naturally entertaining but doesn't have grudens knowledge is ray Lewis.

Im fairly certain that I heard Ray Lewis call #24 "Marchell Lynch" last nite, and he did it more than once. Anybody else catch it?

I heard it, but I think it was due to it being cold outside. All of them were having problems pronouncing words. It was either the cold, or they were all tipsy.[/quote]
He went to the U. Nuf said.

 

[Popeyejones]

He is saying we use a single high safety with press coverage at the corners with 3-4 principles by the front 7 seven with 4-3 players. It is known. In otherwords we use Chancellor as a hybrid to use 8 man fronts constantly and count on 4 man pressure combined with our linebackers being able to cover in space.

Great summary!

I know Gruden gets a ton of crap from fans for being such a cheerleader, but he simply knows football better than the rest of these guys. If there's someone not just focusing on the ball carrier and accurately diagnosing exactly what did and did not happen on a play by the time the whistle is barely blown, it's going to be Gruden 9/10 times. I understand why people find him obnoxious (and I think those things are kind of obnoxious too), but it's all outweighed by his understanding of the game and the speed with which he diagnoses what's happening in it, IMO.

 

[CANHawk]

Agreed, Gruden's fantastic. Only other guy who even comes close is Mayock. Sure he's a bit of a cheerleader ("this guy's great" "this guy's fantastic" "this guy's the best" etc. etc.) but so what. He kicks MAD science! I'll take Gruden the mad science kickin' cheerleader any day of the week over Dilfer and his fake ass "keepin' it real" schtick.

I thought a little too much was being madeof the "triangle" in the broadcast though. It's really a basic single high safety (cover 1) with press man underneith. The safety needs to ensure that he's the farthest man back to ensure nothing gets behind him. Sure that makes an easily identifiable triangle shape in relation to the position of the corners, but there isn't really anything "magic" about it being a triangle. It's a pretty basic concept really, it's just that it requires an extremely athletic safety to pull it off and Earl Thomas might be the best person in the history of the sport at executing it (and I don't think that's hyperbole). Not many teams can rely on cover 1 as regularly as we do because not many teams have a special athleate like Earl Thomas at their disposal.

 

[AbsolutNET]

It really should be called the "circle defense" instead of the triangle, with a big radius drawn around Earl. That's basically what it came down to.

 

[sutz]

Well Sherman locking down his man 1v1 really helps Earl only have to cover so much. Early is my favorite player on the hawks. With that said Sherman helps make this defense works just as much.

Sherman's not the only CB we have who can 'lock down his man.' I think our D would be much less effective if he was. Our ability to play press at the CB position is complemented by ET's ability to cover the back field from sideline to sideline, but I wouldn't discount our CBs other than Sherm.

As was shown Mon night, we're pretty deep there-or at least we were before we lost the front two guys. :229031_shrug:

 

[MontanaHawk05]

It takes a disruptive front four to run Cover 3 well. That's because the classic answer to Cover 3 is to send a couple receivers vertically down the middle and force the FS to pick his poison. We can get away with this because of Earl's speed, but more so because our pass rush can get to the QB consistently.

 

[Anonymous]

It really should be called the "circle defense" instead of the triangle, with a big radius drawn around Earl. That's basically what it came down to.

No matter what our defense is called, we're taking it with us to the Meadowlands. :mrgreen:

 

[THUGCAPS]

Triangles + killing saints = illuminati

We got initiated on Monday night, Super Bowl is ours now.

REJOICE!

You know who else got initiated? The Mariners. Hovi Baby!

 

[camdawg]

I get the distinct impression that Gruden would LOVE to take over for Pete after he chooses to leave. It wouldn't be a bad thing would it?

Nope. Chucky would have to be a top candidate.

His big problem in Tampa? Never figuring out how to replace Brad Johnson at QB. With Russell just beginning his career, Gruden wouldn't have that problem, and we'd get the rest of the awesomeness that Gruden is.

 

[KK84]

Chucky's breakdown of our triangle defense was great because it illustrated what most of us already know. Earl Thomas makes our defense work. With the beat down that followed, I don't see how he doesn't get dpoy, even without the sexiest numbers.

 

[formido]

Well Sherman locking down his man 1v1 really helps Earl only have to cover so much. Early is my favorite player on the hawks. With that said Sherman helps make this defense works just as much.

Sherman's not the only CB we have who can 'lock down his man.' I think our D would be much less effective if he was. Our ability to play press at the CB position is complemented by ET's ability to cover the back field from sideline to sideline, but I wouldn't discount our CBs other than Sherm.

As was shown Mon night, we're pretty deep there-or at least we were before we lost the front two guys. :229031_shrug:

Go back and watch the mic'd up with Sherman during the week of the Minnesota game. No other CB prepares like him and we're never going to be able to just plug in someone who does. Also, it's clear from the video that he's a leader and teacher on this team, contradicting his diva public persona. His infectious and muscular self-confidence is a big part of the spirit of this team's heart and confidence. In building up ET, take care not to overstate the case.

Controlling passing wins football games and championships, and this has held true through every era. Since 1940, whichever team was ranked first or second in the league in passer rating differential has won the NFL title 56% of the time.

In the year and a half before Sherman began starting, our defensive passer rating averaged ~90 per game. Once he began starting, it dropped to ~70 and has held steady since. That's a big deal. That's the difference between an average QB game and a bad one.

In peoples' zeal to heap well-deserved praise on ET, Sherman gets short shrift in the Seahawks community. He is just as (or very close to on either side) important as ET and I hope we never have to find out what it's like to have only one All-Pro back there.

 

[stack600]

Shhhhhh. Don't want everybody catching on...I dig and have always dug Gruden, I always like those NFL Films clips were he is trying to teach Simms the play calls in Tampa."Zebra y post cross bang over slot open bingo zulu alpha 3 etc" and Simms get's in the huddle and gets out "Zebra y cross bang $hit??????????" and gruden unloads on him...Priceless
Chucky sound a bit bitter at the NFL his comment "Screw up and your banned for life" If Bevell leaves to a H.C. job If Carroll and Gruden could co exist I'd be on the Chucky for O.C. if he wanted to come back..How about you all??????

 

[MontanaHawk05]

In peoples' zeal to heap well-deserved praise on ET, Sherman gets short shrift in the Seahawks community.

I reaaaalllly don't agree with that. They both get tons of love.