Greg Cossell on the Myth of Seattle Secondary's Grabbiness

[Marvin49]

In a year where Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III and Russell Wilson were drafted, Greg Cosell said the most intriguing quarterback in the 2012 class was Ryan Lindley.

Overrated views.

Nobodies perfect. How much tape do you think the Chargers watched of Ryan Leaf before the selected him. How about the Vikings and Christian Ponder.

 

[mikeak]

There is a huge difference between forecasting the success of players and breaking down tape and analyzing it.

Please show me the NFL GM that hasn't whiffed on a player........ seriously both from a this guy is going to be great to a this guy isn't first round talent and they let him slip to you know THIRD ROUND

Looking at tapes of team and picking up things that they do / don't / weaknesses etc is a completely different skillset

 

[formido]

Greg Cossell is one of the most respected NFL analysts out there and is noted for watching tons of tape on teams across the league.

Here are his thoughts:

#49ers … Is the #Seahawks secondary really the NFL's grabbiest group? NFL Films' Greg Cosell weighed in on @KNBR …

“I think that’s probably myth,” Cosell said. “When you watch tape, everybody does stuff. It’s just you’re talking about a good team that’s in the spotlight, very visible, with a lot of talkative guys. And I can tell you right now – and I know in San Francisco they may not like to hear it – that’s the best secondary in football and it’s not close.

"Earl Thomas is hands down the best free safety in the game, there’s probably no one in the discussion. (Cornerback Richard) Sherman, if you just watch Sherman on film, the guy is unbelievable. It’s the old Michael Irvin discussion about him pushing off. After awhile, it’s irrelevant. If the flag’s not out, then it doesn’t matter. It’s not a hold.”

I actually do believe they hold alot... <snip>

Great. And you are a Niners fan--and Seattle holding a lot has been one of your guys' chief talking points ever since Seattle got good--and then he's GREG COSELL. His opinion has a lot more credibility than yours.

 

[formido]

In a year where Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III and Russell Wilson were drafted, Greg Cosell said the most intriguing quarterback in the 2012 class was Ryan Lindley.

Overrated views.

That's not really relevant to the issue at hand. Cosell might not be able to forecast players, but he's definitely an expert on simply describing what's happening on football fields. He's probably the leading expert on film watching outside of unknown team employees.

 

[themunn]

Boldin also never gets called for being the biggest on the field douche in football.

Might have agreed with you last week

But he's not Jimmy

 

[Pak40.]

I do not think there are any Niner fans who would argue that SF has a better secondary than Seattle. That is the strength of the team.

 

[formido]

Aside from fans not knowing that you can mug receivers within 5 yards, and not knowing that face guarding is legal in the NFL as long as you don't make contact, I'd say one of the main reasons fans mistakenly think Seattle's corners are behaving illegally is because they don't realize you can have a hand on the receivers. When Fox shows a wide shot of all Seattle's DBs with hands on their man, this looks like a bunch of holding going on to most fans, whereas it's utterly legal. Of course, a receiver doesn't actually have full, unimpeded movement when a hand is, even very lightly, on their bodies, but that's the rule, so Seattle defensive players are all drilled to do it.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Greg Cossell is one of the most respected NFL analysts out there and is noted for watching tons of tape on teams across the league.

Here are his thoughts:

#49ers … Is the #Seahawks secondary really the NFL's grabbiest group? NFL Films' Greg Cosell weighed in on @KNBR …

“I think that’s probably myth,” Cosell said. “When you watch tape, everybody does stuff. It’s just you’re talking about a good team that’s in the spotlight, very visible, with a lot of talkative guys. And I can tell you right now – and I know in San Francisco they may not like to hear it – that’s the best secondary in football and it’s not close.

"Earl Thomas is hands down the best free safety in the game, there’s probably no one in the discussion. (Cornerback Richard) Sherman, if you just watch Sherman on film, the guy is unbelievable. It’s the old Michael Irvin discussion about him pushing off. After awhile, it’s irrelevant. If the flag’s not out, then it doesn’t matter. It’s not a hold.”

I actually do believe they hold alot, but if the refs don't call it why wouldn't you? It would be stupid NOT to take advantage of that.

Not sure why SF wouldn't want to hear that Seattle is the best secondary in the NFL. They are. It's not close.

The point is that they don't hold or grab any more than most other secondaries. Some other teams do almost blatantly to make up for the talent gap. Everybody holds to certain degree, let's talk DL...cough, Justin Smith, cough, cough! Some people are more effective at it because they are good at it and they don't make it obvious.

 

[rideaducati]

I don't think Anquan Boldin has ever completed a reception without pushing a DB off him first.

You must have missed it when he played the Packers...there weren't any DB's anywhere near him to push away.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

he's definitely an expert on simply describing what's happening on football fields. He's probably the leading expert on film watching outside of unknown team employees.

I honestly don't want to hijack this thread... that wasn't my intention I promise.

But it's stuff like this that really gets my goat with Cossell. It's like nobody can quote him without first slobbering over his balls. "Cossell said this, so it must be right because he's like this video guru and nobody watches tape better than he does."

JMHO -- but I think he's a rank average analyser who mostly talks a load of pointless jibberish, full of buzz words to make it sound insightful.

Mayock is the guy I want to hear from. He should be the one with the wet balls.

 

[mikeak]

When Fox shows a wide shot of all Seattle's DBs with hands on their man, this looks like a bunch of holding going on to most fans, whereas it's utterly legal. Of course, a receiver doesn't actually have full, unimpeded movement when a hand is, even very lightly, on their bodies, but that's the rule, so Seattle defensive players are all drilled to do it.

The ref on Saturday also didn't know this when he called the hold on Clemons. That call was the one call I was PISSED at during the game. Ironically it received the least attention on this forum even though it was 1) the worst call and 2) a HUGE HUGE call

Clemons had his hands on the receiver, did not impact him and Drew Brees threw the ball in the ground. Instead of 3rd and 20 or something it was a first down and from there on touchdown.......

 

[Vetamur]

The Seahawks are "touchy", for sure. But a careful reading of the rules reveals part of the reason they get away with it. Most people assume you cant touch at all beyond 5 yards. But thats not true. You cant impede progress beyond 5 yards by touching. If your hand is one them but doesnt affect their movement, that it fine. And that is part of what they do. Its like the martial arts thing..keep your hand on them to help you react to what they do..in this case it seems to sometimes provide the clue to Sherman especially as to when to turn aroun.

The second half of the equation, in my opinion, is the Seahawks using press coverage. If your CBs line up 7 yards down the field, then their initial contact is going to be probably 8 to 10 yards down the field. Where it is already illegal. Obviously, blatantly. If you line up on the line of scrimmage, which the Seahawks do more than anyone else at this point, then your initial contact is right there. You have 5 yards to play with..and if it goes another 2 or 3 yards as you lighten up the touch.. then its just not going to be called. Its like when the speed limit is 60mph , youre just not going to get a ticket at 64mph , except in Modesto, California (a big screw you going out to Officer Wycoff!). If you get 5 yards to maul...youre gonna get away with 7.

So.. to me..those two factors go along way in explaining the lack of flags. But as others have noted, plenty of teams do what could be called PI every play. probably just as much. its just not as focused on because they dont play the press and they havent had the success so the spotlight isnt on them.