Great Read on Bruce Irvin

[smashmouth59]

The analysis contradicts much of what has been emphasized here on .net. I have heard many say that he is a one trick pony i.e. "he is only an outside speed rusher with no bull rush, poor hand use, and no swim move." The article does point out that he excelled mostly against right tackles, not elite left tackles.

One promising statement notes that, "Irvin’s size and strength makes him a formidable bull-rusher, even if he doesn’t use it with great success all that often. When combined with his ability to get outside of offensive tackles and beat them around the edge, there is nothing that can be taken for granted when battling the emerging superstar."

Regarding his inside stunts, "Getting back to his build, Irvin has the perfect size to shoot through gaps in the offensive line without being knocked off balance by bigger interior offensive linemen."

"These combinations of moves are not things that every pass-rusher in the NFL can do. In fact, not even every good pass-rusher in the NFL can do what Irvin does on some of these plays. Most good pass-rushers have one overwhelming strength that they play to and build their repertoire of moves off of. Much like Justin Houston, Irvin doesn’t have a single trait that is significantly greater than the other aspects of his play. That is what will allow him to be special if he can reach his potential."

There are also some excellent illustrated breakdowns of his sack against the Packers as he abused Brian Bulaga, the Packs new starting LT, and his inside stunt to sack Cam Newton.

Check it out.

http://presnapreads.com/2013/06/24/bruc ... -seahawks/

 

[formido]

I am fascinated by this because the same guy analyzed Aldon Smith and after reading both articles, you leave with a better impression from Irvin. According to this guy Smith benefitted from a lot of cheap sacks last year.

 

[FlyingGreg]

I am fascinated by this because the same guy analyzed Aldon Smith and after reading both articles, you leave with a better impression from Irvin. According to this guy Smith benefitted from a lot of cheap sacks last year.

Aldon Smith benefits a lot from Justin Smith. He gets all the love for Justin's work.

Don't get me wrong, Aldon is a good pass rusher. But he is greatly assisted by the man beast he has at tackle absorbing attention.

As far as Bruce goes, we shall see. I think I'm burned out on the paralysis by analysis this off-season and it this point ready to go into put-up-or-shut-up mode. That being said, I am expecting a big improvement from him this season when he gets back.

 

[kearly]

Impressive research. My favorite bit was the analysis on the tackles who gave up Irvin's sacks. Turns out to be a terrible bunch, and might explain by Irvin seemed to be very hot/cold last season.

I think the OP misrepresents the article, the article isn't any kind of counter-argument against the observation that Irvin has to sell out to do anything. If anything, it seems to support that idea by referring to Irvin as a situational pass rusher in the conclusion (albeit in an indirect fashion).

It doesn't really matter though, because we will probably never see 2012 Bruce Irvin ever again. He's added 15+ pounds of muscle this offseason, AND he's being put into a new role that requires him to play even less run defense at the LOS. It's pretty obvious that the coaching staff noticed the same things I did, or else they wouldn't have been so aggressive with making changes to adapt for Irvin's weaknesses this offseason. I'm not completely sure if Irvin will fix his problems, but it may not even matter because the coaches will do their damnedest to put Irvin in a role where he can be useful to the team. Irvin will probably have a nice career here, whether that means he's the next Chris Clemons or the next Rufus Porter.

 

[400WattHPSHawk]

Impressive research. My favorite bit was the analysis on the tackles who gave up Irvin's sacks. Turns out to be a terrible bunch, and might explain by Irvin seemed to be very hot/cold last season.

I think the OP misrepresents the article, the article isn't any kind of counter-argument against the observation that Irvin has to sell out to do anything. If anything, it seems to support that idea by referring to Irvin as a situational pass rusher in the conclusion (albeit in an indirect fashion).

It doesn't really matter though, because we will probably never see 2012 Bruce Irvin ever again. He's added 15+ pounds of muscle this offseason, AND he's being put into a new role that requires him to play even less run defense at the LOS. It's pretty obvious that the coaching staff noticed the same things I did, or else they wouldn't have been so aggressive with making changes to adapt for Irvin's weaknesses this offseason. I'm not completely sure if Irvin will fix his problems, but it may not even matter because the coaches will do their damnedest to put Irvin in a role where he can be useful to the team. Irvin will probably have a nice career here, whether that means he's the next Chris Clemons or the next Rufus Porter.

Your head must be HUUUUUge. Stop. Please stop. But don't stop entirely, because this site needs folks like you Kearly.

 

[bestfightstory]

WHATEVER


This so-called thread is a joke.

When Irvin accomplishes anything post week four we can talk.



Until then porn is a more fulfilling fantasy.

 

[400WattHPSHawk]

WHATEVER


This so-called thread is a joke.

When Irvin accomplishes anything post week four we can talk.



Until then porn is a more fulfilling fantasy.

Dude, If you ever have sex with a woman, you are going to be soooo stoked. 8)

 

[FormerEvil]

^ awesome comment to read first thing in the morning. well done.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

WHATEVER


This so-called thread is a joke.

When Irvin accomplishes anything post week four we can talk.



Until then porn is a more fulfilling fantasy.

Dude, If you ever have sex with a woman, you are going to be soooo stoked. 8)

It doesn't matter if I agree or disagree -- that sir is pure GOLD!


And yeah, even if Irvin is just a pure situational pass rusher, if he continues to improve on that and can apply pressure against the good RTs of the league instead of the dregs ... then he'll be worth the pick.

 

[formido]

Impressive research. My favorite bit was the analysis on the tackles who gave up Irvin's sacks. Turns out to be a terrible bunch, and might explain by Irvin seemed to be very hot/cold last season.

I think the OP misrepresents the article, the article isn't any kind of counter-argument against the observation that Irvin has to sell out to do anything. If anything, it seems to support that idea by referring to Irvin as a situational pass rusher in the conclusion (albeit in an indirect fashion).

It doesn't really matter though, because we will probably never see 2012 Bruce Irvin ever again. He's added 15+ pounds of muscle this offseason, AND he's being put into a new role that requires him to play even less run defense at the LOS. It's pretty obvious that the coaching staff noticed the same things I did, or else they wouldn't have been so aggressive with making changes to adapt for Irvin's weaknesses this offseason. I'm not completely sure if Irvin will fix his problems, but it may not even matter because the coaches will do their damnedest to put Irvin in a role where he can be useful to the team. Irvin will probably have a nice career here, whether that means he's the next Chris Clemons or the next Rufus Porter.

Your head must be HUUUUUge. Stop. Please stop. But don't stop entirely, because this site needs folks like you Kearly.

Keep doing what you do, Kip.

 

[Tech Worlds]

I don't have much confidence in Bruce as he seams extremely immature. Perhaps in a few years his maturity will catch up with his talent. I am not holding my breath for this year or even next.

 

[SNDavidson]

I'm not sure he's as immature anymore. I speculate that he just wants to be an all star and he put too much pressure on himself. I'm not willing to give up on the guy, all things considered. I know I've benefited from a few second chances in my life.

 

[NinerBuff]

what's the concensus from you guys regarding Irvin? He seemed to show flashes of great speed around the edge...

My initial impression was that he didn't have the size / strength to be a formidable OLB, but still 8 sacks (9 including playoffs) as a rookie is impressive. Like others have said, he seems immature and I'm sure the suspension wont help, but he looks to be solid player at least.

I was surprised to see he's 26, was going to say that he fill out as he gets older :| .

 

[formido]

what's the concensus from you guys regarding Irvin? He seemed to show flashes of great speed around the edge...

My initial impression was that he didn't have the size / strength to be a formidable OLB, but still 8 sacks (9 including playoffs) as a rookie is impressive. Like others have said, he seems immature and I'm sure the suspension wont help, but he looks to be solid player at least.

I was surprised to see he's 26, was going to say that he fill out as he gets older :| .

He already filled out this off-season, presumably from the adderall. He doesn't need to put on any more weight.

 

[Tech Worlds]

I'm not sure he's as immature anymore. I speculate that he just wants to be an all star and he put too much pressure on himself. I'm not willing to give up on the guy, all things considered. I know I've benefited from a few second chances in my life.

You should follow him on twitter. It gives you an idea of how he thinks. When I read his twitter I see a kid mentally. Just gives me an idea of where his mind is at.

 

[SNDavidson]

Just took a look at it, looks fine to me.

 

[Tech Worlds]

Just took a look at it, looks fine to me.

Gotcha. It's amazing that we can all get a different opinion on something by reading the same stuff.

Maybe it's cause I'm a critical old ass

 

[SNDavidson]

Well yeah, now we're getting into personal likes/dislikes/understanding, different upbringings, life, etc... I just want to see the guy be what he can be and watch the Seahawks benefit from it . Sorry, I'm not much for arguing, just have to agree to disagree, people are different but at the core actually very similar. Think the guy understands he messed up.

 

[smashmouth59]

"I think the OP misrepresents the article, the article isn't any kind of counter-argument against the observation that Irvin has to sell out to do anything. If anything, it seems to support that idea by referring to Irvin as a situational pass rusher in the conclusion (albeit in an indirect fashion)."-Kearly

What is funny is that you tried to make a counter argument on point that i never argued. I never said that .netters said he "has to sell out to do anything." I actuallly made a a very broad statement that he is simply not a one trick pony. He is not simply an outside speed rusher. Yes he is fast and has one of the quickest firts three steps in the league but the article highlights his other skills.

My favorite part was the detail in which they took to highlight his multiple sacks against Brian Bulaga. I disagree that Brian Bulaga is a lower tier tackle. The freeze frame pictures show Irvin exploding off the ball, getting Bulaga to back peddle, Irvin then jams Bulaga in the upper torso, and breaks inside for the sack on Rodgers. It was a thing of beauty.

What is not so pretty is that people want to take what little we have to talk about in the offseason and dismiss it or make lame comments (not yours Kearly) to amuse themselves. Whatever works. On second thought this diversity is what makes this place so great. The complete detachment and confliction of characters like Tech, Kearly, and BFS. This place rocks.

It is also interesting that when i was thinking of a way to start the post, the first thing that came to my mind was how the article seemed to counter the common opinion. Not just that of .net, but that of the league and fans that Bruce has no pass rush repertoire. I am not saying he was not a liability against the run, just that he is developing a variety of moves i.e. good punch, good balance to not get push around when stunting inside, good bullrush, great first step, great bend around the corner, elite finishing speed to chase down the likes of Newton and Rodgers.

Naturally, the first thing to come to mind is how to counter my take on the article. To create some friction. To effect the ethos, pathos, logos of the post and create some talking points. This place is a regular laboratory of critical analysis, scientific argument, and playground for intellectual gods of the NFL blogosphere. I love it. It's like chemistry with crayons.

Does any body else have any groundbreaking epiphanies on the subject? What was the subject again?

 

[Fuzzman55]

The pass rush ability is there. I don't worry about that aspect of his game. He'll get to the QB and make other teams pay. Most organizations would take just that out of their 1st round pick. But if Irvin manages to improve at the point of attack and setting the edge he could be an outstanding player. It's not an easy thing to learn or accomplish, but definitely doable, especially with how hard he seemed to work this offseason. Pass rushers usually take a couple of years to put it together anyway. To me he seems to be on track.