Fumble or Incomplete Pass Question

[Seahawkfan80]

If the ball is thrown forward (how doesn't matter), it is a foward pass. If it hits the ground it's a dead ball, and the play is over. For it to be a LEGAL forward pass, the passer has to be an eligible player (you don't have to be a QB to make a legal foward pass) behind the line of scrimmage, and you are limited to one per play. Edit: It also has to be a "legitimate" attempt to advance the ball (otherwise it's intentional grounding), with the excepton of the 'spike' play designed to stop the clock.

If the ball is thrown either parallel or backwards, it's not a foward pass (sometimes called a lateral), and the ball is considered a "live ball" if it hits the ground (and thus is a fumble).

Now the complication is just when does the ball motion become a forward pass (and this was the heart of the infamous and now discontinued 'tuck rule'). Essentially if the passer's hand is moving foward with the ball in it, then the forward pass is considered to be in progress, and if the ball is dropped/stripped at this point, then it's an incomplete pass. If the hand is NOT going foward before control of the ball is lost, then it's a fumble.

That's how I understand it anyway.

Now, lets get off the wall with it. If the ball is fumbled and a offensive player picks it up..can he pass the ball? Can an offensive lineman get the ball somehow and pass it to a receiver?? Always gotta throw some stuff into the mix...sometimes. I am not sure about these answers..but the OP got his answer.
:thirishdrinkers: Go Hawks

 

[Lords of Scythia]

If the ball is thrown forward (how doesn't matter), it is a foward pass. If it hits the ground it's a dead ball, and the play is over. For it to be a LEGAL forward pass, the passer has to be an eligible player (you don't have to be a QB to make a legal foward pass) behind the line of scrimmage, and you are limited to one per play. Edit: It also has to be a "legitimate" attempt to advance the ball (otherwise it's intentional grounding), with the excepton of the 'spike' play designed to stop the clock.

If the ball is thrown either parallel or backwards, it's not a foward pass (sometimes called a lateral), and the ball is considered a "live ball" if it hits the ground (and thus is a fumble).

Now the complication is just when does the ball motion become a forward pass (and this was the heart of the infamous and now discontinued 'tuck rule'). Essentially if the passer's hand is moving foward with the ball in it, then the forward pass is considered to be in progress, and if the ball is dropped/stripped at this point, then it's an incomplete pass. If the hand is NOT going foward before control of the ball is lost, then it's a fumble.

That's how I understand it anyway.

Okay...

 

[Lords of Scythia]

It has nothing to do with the line of scrimmage, but everything to do with the location of the passer. If the pass or toss is dropped and the ball lands behind the passers location when the ball was thrown, it's a fumble.

I don't know about that. The rule as I understand it is like 40oz explained.

Umm, that is absolutely and positively not true. Trust me.

The OP wanted to know when a dropped pass could be considered a fumble. I stated it had nothing to do with the line of scrimmage and it does not. Think about a screen pass. Most screen pass are thrown to a back that is positioned behind the line of scrimmage, yet when the pass is dropped it's not considered a fumble even though it is a pass the lands behind the line of scrimmage. The reason is because the passer is still throwing the ball forward. When they look at whether a pass might or might not be a fumble, it is always depends on where the ball landed in relation to where the passer threw it.

Where I disagree with you is that WHERE THE BALL LANDS has nothing to do with whether the pass is a lateral or a forward pass--that is decided the moment it leaves the qbs hands. The LOS only matters if the qb is beyond it when he hurls--you can do that with a lateral, but not a fp.

 

[JGreen79]

If the ball is thrown forward (how doesn't matter), it is a foward pass. If it hits the ground it's a dead ball, and the play is over. For it to be a LEGAL forward pass, the passer has to be an eligible player (you don't have to be a QB to make a legal foward pass) behind the line of scrimmage, and you are limited to one per play. Edit: It also has to be a "legitimate" attempt to advance the ball (otherwise it's intentional grounding), with the excepton of the 'spike' play designed to stop the clock.

If the ball is thrown either parallel or backwards, it's not a foward pass (sometimes called a lateral), and the ball is considered a "live ball" if it hits the ground (and thus is a fumble).

Now the complication is just when does the ball motion become a forward pass (and this was the heart of the infamous and now discontinued 'tuck rule'). Essentially if the passer's hand is moving foward with the ball in it, then the forward pass is considered to be in progress, and if the ball is dropped/stripped at this point, then it's an incomplete pass. If the hand is NOT going foward before control of the ball is lost, then it's a fumble.

That's how I understand it anyway.

Now, lets get off the wall with it. If the ball is fumbled and a offensive player picks it up..can he pass the ball? Can an offensive lineman get the ball somehow and pass it to a receiver?? Always gotta throw some stuff into the mix...sometimes. I am not sure about these answers..but the OP got his answer.
:thirishdrinkers: Go Hawks

Yes if it is fumbled prior to a forward pass , one can still be made. However not to sure if an O-line man can unless he has reported in as eligible.

 

[253hawk]

There's no such thing as a parallel pass--it's either forward or backwards and a lateral is backwards.

Something something Music City Miracle something something...

 

[mikeak]

^ good reference and yes a parallel pass is deemed a live ball

 

[XxXdragonXxX]

Ok, but nobody said the ball had to be thrown beyond the LOS. My reference to the LOS in my earlier post was simply in describing a 'sideways' pass....i.e. one in which the ball travels parallel to the LOS from the where it's released by the QB towards the intended receiver. That would be considered a non-forward pass, and thus the ball would be live.

I think your wording is confusing but you're right. Yes if the ball travels parallel to the LOS it is considered a backward pass, but the LOS is not what they're looking at when they determine if its a backwards pass. All they're looking at is whether the ball traveled backwards/lateral based on the yardage markers. So yes the LOS (being a straight line parallel to the yardage markers) is a good reference point, but it really has nothing to do with the rule.