From 1st to 6th on D?

[djb28]

They use yardage. SMH. When I Gamble. .. er, I mean when I pick teams for fun, I always go by points allowed.

 

[silverjoel]

I understand all of enthusiasm for the Seahawks' defense based on the last few years, but you have to give the Vikings their due this year.

 

[kidhawk]

I don't know why they use yards per game as the metric by which defenses are ranked. Points per game should be the metric. Generally the best defense is one that gives up the least amount of points. Points play the ultimate role in wins and losses, not yards. I know I'm being Captain Obvious here but the media still doesn't seem to get it. Or those who are compiling the stats and rankings.

Points per game or Points PER DRIVE ya. That should be the metric...Yards makes no sense at all

Between Points and Yards (per game), yards is the one most in the defense's control. Points can be had from turnovers by the offense or returns on special teams, but yards given up are all on the defense.

That's not to say that the other barometers aren't important, because they absolutely are, and they are often used in ranking defenses outside the official ranking, but the official ranking of yards per game is used because the defense controls every aspect of the yards they give up.

I understand what you are saying. However, Pick six, fumble recovery for TD on defense, safety also are scores by the defense but are accumulated in total points per game for offensive stats.

Yards per game is useless unless those yards are being converted into points. As last week showed, the Cards had over 400+ yards of offense but only 6 points to show for it. They had enough yards for 4 football fields. Seahawks had the same score with less yards...which team was more efficient in stopping the other team from scoring? I'd say the Seahawks were since they gave up more yards but less points.

Except, the Cardinals kind of stopped themselves a few times there. They should have outscored us, but between poor coaching decisions, missed kicks and blocks, they didn't.

The ONLY reason the Cardinals even gave up the tie was due to our defense. The offense didn't go anywhere but we were given the ball in scoring position. That's not exactly the Cardinals Defense's fault is it?

Anyway, it really doesn't matter, because as I said before, both are used on a regular basis. Nobody reporting on or talking about games worries about which stat is the OFFICIAL stat.

With all that said, when one team has both the lowest yards AND the fewest points, I think they earned that number one spot and right now that's the Vikings.

 

[TwistedHusky]

We also played some pretty low tier teams.

When you give up 250yds vs the Jets in passing alone, you don't get to complain your defense is being underestimated.

When you do that and give up 300 to Atlanta at home and then over 300 to the Cards as well, you might still have a good defense but your passing defense is no longer absolutely terrifying like it was once. This isn't 2013 and we likely will not see a defense like that again for some time ...but right now while the defense is good, we have not earned the top spot.

 

[themunn]

Wouldn't an offensive turnover (pick-six or scoop and score) as well as a kick return for TD, count against the defense in points/game? To me, that means that the points/game does not solely depend on the defense. Yards/game does.

To me, both should be considered when looking at the top defense.

Go Hawks!

Yes. Not only that, if a team consistently turned the ball over in their own territory, they could give up 7 points with only a small number of yards given away, or maybe even a field goal without giving away ANY yards. There have definitely been instances of us turning over the ball and then giving up 3 points despite having a 3 and out with negative yardage for the offense.

Even just using points or yards is not enough to decide what the #1 defense is. If you were comparing a team that gives up 250 yards, 14 points and has 2 takeaways per game on average to a team that gives up 260 yards, 15 points and has 4 takeaways per game on average, which one would you consider the better defense? That's only an extra 160 yards and 16 points over a season, but gives their offense an extra 32 opportunities to score.

And that's not even taking into account strength of schedule!

 

[Hawk-Lock]

Stats are so useless in the NFL. Which is why I never even look at them. In other sports, such as baseball, they are a great reference point. But they literally mean nothing in the NFL.

If you have a top 5 offense in the NFL, the only thing that tells me is that you have a terrible defense.

Since Seattle was a top 5 offense last year, does that mean we had a terrible defense?

I learned something today, thank you

You took my statement literally? Then that is on you. Obviously a correlation is never 100%.

But in general, just look at the stats. Here are top 5 teams on a points per game basis:

Atlanta 32.7 ppg
San Diego 29.4 ppg
New Orleans 29.3 ppg
Indianapolis 27.7
Carolina 26.8 ppg

All of those teams have bottom 10 defenses in points given up a game.

My point is, most stats in the NFL are useless.

 

[WilsonMVP]

I don't know why they use yards per game as the metric by which defenses are ranked. Points per game should be the metric. Generally the best defense is one that gives up the least amount of points. Points play the ultimate role in wins and losses, not yards. I know I'm being Captain Obvious here but the media still doesn't seem to get it. Or those who are compiling the stats and rankings.

Points per game or Points PER DRIVE ya. That should be the metric...Yards makes no sense at all

Between Points and Yards (per game), yards is the one most in the defense's control. Points can be had from turnovers by the offense or returns on special teams, but yards given up are all on the defense.

That's not to say that the other barometers aren't important, because they absolutely are, and they are often used in ranking defenses outside the official ranking, but the official ranking of yards per game is used because the defense controls every aspect of the yards they give up.

But its dumb. You could give up 300 yards and ZERO TDs or give up 150 yards and 3TDs...which is the better D?

 

[WilsonMVP]

We also played some pretty low tier teams.

When you give up 250yds vs the Jets in passing alone, you don't get to complain your defense is being underestimated.

When you do that and give up 300 to Atlanta at home and then over 300 to the Cards as well, you might still have a good defense but your passing defense is no longer absolutely terrifying like it was once. This isn't 2013 and we likely will not see a defense like that again for some time ...but right now while the defense is good, we have not earned the top spot.

But how much of that is because of the offense. I mean jesus, when the offense cant even get the ball past the 50 you are going to get some yards allowed on your defense. Offense has been playing pretty terrible this season

 

[Anonymous]

Smilies gentlemen, Smilies!!!

:thcoffee:

 

[Popeyejones]

I understand all of enthusiasm for the Seahawks' defense based on the last few years, but you have to give the Vikings their due this year.

Wow. Hadn't seen that. Very, very impressive.

On the thread:

1) I really don't have any skin in the game for rankings based on yards or points. I see the upsides and downsides to both of them. I'm so non-commital that if forced to decide I'd make the rank cumulative and divide it by two with lowest number wins.

2) I don't think "bend but don't break" is actually really a thing. I know it's something that people say, but it's not a real defensive philosophy and not a real characteristic of defenses, IMO.

3) The Seahawks have a top defense in the NFL, as they've had for a few years now. They've been on a historic run on that side of the ball for sure.

 

[minormillikin]

We also played some pretty low tier teams.

When you give up 250yds vs the Jets in passing alone, you don't get to complain your defense is being underestimated.

When you do that and give up 300 to Atlanta at home and then over 300 to the Cards as well, you might still have a good defense but your passing defense is no longer absolutely terrifying like it was once. This isn't 2013 and we likely will not see a defense like that again for some time ...but right now while the defense is good, we have not earned the top spot.

But how much of that is because of the offense. I mean jesus, when the offense cant even get the ball past the 50 you are going to get some yards allowed on your defense. Offense has been playing pretty terrible this season

I suppose we could calculate a points allowed per minute stat, or yards per minute type of thing. I was about to just figure that all out, comparing us to Minnesota, but it's a pain to do on my phone.

 

[WilsonMVP]

We also played some pretty low tier teams.

When you give up 250yds vs the Jets in passing alone, you don't get to complain your defense is being underestimated.

When you do that and give up 300 to Atlanta at home and then over 300 to the Cards as well, you might still have a good defense but your passing defense is no longer absolutely terrifying like it was once. This isn't 2013 and we likely will not see a defense like that again for some time ...but right now while the defense is good, we have not earned the top spot.

But how much of that is because of the offense. I mean jesus, when the offense cant even get the ball past the 50 you are going to get some yards allowed on your defense. Offense has been playing pretty terrible this season

I suppose we could calculate a points allowed per minute stat, or yards per minute type of thing. I was about to just figure that all out, comparing us to Minnesota, but it's a pain to do on my phone.

You dont need to do anything, I can tell you right now the Vikings have played better overall on defense than the Seahawks have. I have watched every game for both teams and I dont have to think about it that much, Vikings have been better