Frank Clark weight down to 257.

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

I'm just a douchebag on a message board, but still, I loved the idea of Clark at 280.

Me too. And Me too.

Aaron Donald and JJ Watt play in the 280s.

Pete must know something and I trust his judgement.

Although I love that as well - I just see a much more glaring need as a LDE on passing downs. I think this keeps Bennett wreaking havoc on the inside on passing downs.

I think last year we were fumbling around a bit on whether to keep Bennett inside or outside on passing downs.

 

[titan3131]

Clark also posted on Twitter that he didn't feel as fast as he liked and lost a lot of his flexibility and mobility.

He did have a soft tissue injury last year. Maybe his health and natural frame predicated this change.

At least that's what I gathered from this post

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheRealFrank ... 7517390848

 

[kearly]

You do give up on his potential as a rare pass rushing threat at DT, but at the same time, there's a pretty urgent need for a sub-package DE. I don't know if he's going pure LEO, but the team needed someone to play opposite Avril when Bennett shifts inside. We don't have much depth there besides Marsh, who's looked like a JAG so far.

This gives you an opportunity to play Avril, Bennett, Clark and Hill together in passing situation. There's also a lot of talk of this being a great DT class, and (whether that's true or not) that could have factored into this move. For me, I'm excited about it because I thought Clark had some potential to replace Irvin as a subpackage DE, and it looks like they're going that way.

I don't like it. Clark isn't a classic LEO, he's a core strength guy. When teams attempt to turn core strength dudes into edge rushers, you typically get results like Bjoern Werner and Courtney Upshaw.

But I trust Pete. If it works great! If it ends up being a mistake, I trust Pete to correct himself immediately.

 

[Tical21]

You do give up on his potential as a rare pass rushing threat at DT, but at the same time, there's a pretty urgent need for a sub-package DE. I don't know if he's going pure LEO, but the team needed someone to play opposite Avril when Bennett shifts inside. We don't have much depth there besides Marsh, who's looked like a JAG so far.

This gives you an opportunity to play Avril, Bennett, Clark and Hill together in passing situation. There's also a lot of talk of this being a great DT class, and (whether that's true or not) that could have factored into this move. For me, I'm excited about it because I thought Clark had some potential to replace Irvin as a subpackage DE, and it looks like they're going that way.

Dude, I'm really starting to strongly dislike you. At least five times in the past three days I have seen a thread, thought about what I might add to it, then been too lazy or busy to post at the time. I come back a short while later and you pretty much wrote verbatim what I was going to say.

A 3rd down passing end is a really big need for this team. I personally thought Irvin was a little subpar at this last year. It's time for Frank to step up. If he can become that, it's huge. We still need another inside pass rusher as I don't entirely trust Hill to stay healthy or produce, but without having somebody outside that can rush the passer, we don't get the bonus of moving Bennett inside on passing downs.

 

[kearly]

Even when Hill got 5 sacks in 5 weeks or whatever it was, they were mostly cleanup sacks like the kind Lawrence Jackson used to make.

Hill is improving slowly as an all-around DT but as a pass rusher I think he's JAG. I was really hoping Clark would make Hill expendable, rather than having to rely on Hill's replacement level play on 3rd downs.

Then again, maybe we're all over-reacting, and Carroll ends up playing Clark in the same role as last year. Just at less weight. Clark is so strong that he might be able to handle the Bennett role at 257.

 

[vin.couve12]

Clark is NOT our best run defender by a longshot. That would likely go to Mebane, followed by Wagner, who are responsible for the A gaps first and foremost, who would then be followed by Rubin. Your "inside triangle" is the single most important aspect of run defense and we had the best in the league last year by a good margin. You could also argue that for their respective position, Bennett is one of the best run defenders in the league.

Also, weight is not the single most important factor in playing a position. Your inside guys have to be naturally adept at leverage. A 6'3 long limbed guy like Clark, isn't best suited there as a MLB. You want him on the edge. Avril's health has been a major problem in 3 out of the last 4 years in playoff/superbowl games we've lost. We need a plan B pass rusher there BADLY. 1st world upper echelon NFL team problems, yes; but a problem none the less.

Admittedly, my comment about Clark being our best run stopper is more about potential than actual production. Clark's run stop percentage in college (12%) was off the charts good. In his short time in the NFL, his instincts against the run have looked unbelievably good, which made it so frustrating that he saw most of his snaps as a rookie in obvious passing situations.

Being 257 lbs absolutely would have an effect on his ability to play at the three technique, unless you can name a three technique in the NFL who currently plays at that weight. In addition to mass, length is another very important attribute inside at three technique.

Really you want your 3 tech at 300 pounds or so with a good quick step off the snap. On 1st and 2nd downs putting a guy like Rubin there is great, but you also know that you're not going to get a lot of pass rush. Your best 3 techs are generally of the same kind of 300 pound athlete. Or at least your higher paying ones. You don't see a lot of 3 techs at 280 and there's a good reason for that. You don't get doubled at 3 as much as the 1, even though Pete raved about Rubin getting doubled in an Over front, but you still have to be able to anchor against a good NFL Guard.

I spoke to a young man's body being highly moldable in the early 20s, but there's also a limit to that based on frame. When you exceed the frame, you almost invite injury. There's a certain ratio there that's just unavoidable based on said frame. Clark just isn't going to be an every down 3. To ask him to do so would be damaging both Clark's career and your own investment at the same time. Seppuku, if you will....

On 3rd downs I don't think he's limited in that role. It's a different scenario.

 

[Rob12]

Vin. is such an underrated poster. He's killing it....as always.

Agreed, always read his thoughts.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Clark is NOT our best run defender by a longshot. That would likely go to Mebane, followed by Wagner, who are responsible for the A gaps first and foremost, who would then be followed by Rubin. Your "inside triangle" is the single most important aspect of run defense and we had the best in the league last year by a good margin. You could also argue that for their respective position, Bennett is one of the best run defenders in the league.

Also, weight is not the single most important factor in playing a position. Your inside guys have to be naturally adept at leverage. A 6'3 long limbed guy like Clark, isn't best suited there as a MLB. You want him on the edge. Avril's health has been a major problem in 3 out of the last 4 years in playoff/superbowl games we've lost. We need a plan B pass rusher there BADLY. 1st world upper echelon NFL team problems, yes; but a problem none the less.

Can always count on your posts to be of the well-informed and well thought out variety. I will say that Clark has been unusually stout and strong at POA for his body type, however.

 

[vin.couve12]

Clark is NOT our best run defender by a longshot. That would likely go to Mebane, followed by Wagner, who are responsible for the A gaps first and foremost, who would then be followed by Rubin. Your "inside triangle" is the single most important aspect of run defense and we had the best in the league last year by a good margin. You could also argue that for their respective position, Bennett is one of the best run defenders in the league.

Also, weight is not the single most important factor in playing a position. Your inside guys have to be naturally adept at leverage. A 6'3 long limbed guy like Clark, isn't best suited there as a MLB. You want him on the edge. Avril's health has been a major problem in 3 out of the last 4 years in playoff/superbowl games we've lost. We need a plan B pass rusher there BADLY. 1st world upper echelon NFL team problems, yes; but a problem none the less.

Can always count on your posts to be of the well-informed and well thought out variety. I will say that Clark has been unusually stout and strong at POA for his body type, however.

Yeah, he has a sort of Mike Tyson short area explosiveness. His initial burst generates tons of kinetic energy. More so than even Bennett, I think. I also think there's a limit to that though. Maybe even in terms of long term durability and wear and tear. And in terms of maximizing where and how, I think DE on 1st and 2nd is just right and the flexibility of moving inside on passing downs still stands....regardless of the current emphasis.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

You do give up on his potential as a rare pass rushing threat at DT, but at the same time, there's a pretty urgent need for a sub-package DE. I don't know if he's going pure LEO, but the team needed someone to play opposite Avril when Bennett shifts inside. We don't have much depth there besides Marsh, who's looked like a JAG so far.

This gives you an opportunity to play Avril, Bennett, Clark and Hill together in passing situation. There's also a lot of talk of this being a great DT class, and (whether that's true or not) that could have factored into this move. For me, I'm excited about it because I thought Clark had some potential to replace Irvin as a subpackage DE, and it looks like they're going that way.

I don't like it. Clark isn't a classic LEO, he's a core strength guy. When teams attempt to turn core strength dudes into edge rushers, you typically get results like Bjoern Werner and Courtney Upshaw.

But I trust Pete. If it works great! If it ends up being a mistake, I trust Pete to correct himself immediately.

That has been my impression, and this also agrees with Rob Rang's assessnent of him being more of a phone booth guy than an end rusher, but we shall see what shakes loose.

I'm just a douchebag on a message board, but still, I loved the idea of Clark at 280.

Me too. And Me too.

Aaron Donald and JJ Watt play in the 280s.

Pete must know something and I trust his judgement.

 

[Overseasfan]

This is great in my eyes. Now he can fill up the 3rd down LEO spot Irvin left behind instead of becoming a career back up to Bennett. He can always bulk up later on again when Bennett retires but that won't be soon.

 

[Vetamur]

Vin. is such an underrated poster. He's killing it....as always.

I second this.. hadnt really noticed until lately. Tip of the hat to you vin.!

 

[ImTheScientist]

He will be sliding into Bruce Irvin's role.

 

[pehawk]

He will be sliding into Bruce Irvin's "roll".

Adjusted your post to maximize hotness.

 

[Sgt Largent]

Not sure how I feel about this. He has shown flashes of being a really unique inside guy. His quickness and strength really overmatched Guards. He flashed an ability to penetrate from the inside that is rarely seen in the NFL. From the small sample size we were provided with, it was his quick feet and ability to bull rush before the OL could establish leverage. Some of those blockers looked like they couldn't get out of their stance, nevermind effectively block him, before he was in the backfield.

But, Pete and Co. may care more about gap control than penetration. My concern is that Tackles have better feet and hands. He'll need more than quick and a bull rush.

I don't want an average/above average End/OLB if I could have a special DT. Maybe he could be special outside too. Time will tell.

 

[firebee]

I'm liking it... Just because a player loses weight, doesn't mean they'll lose strength and quickness.. quite the opposite. He wasn't a guy that used size to push the pocket like Mebane or Rubin. He used his arms to shed blocks and quickness to shoot the gaps and pressure the backfield. As long as his upper body strength is the same or maybe even a little better, he's going to be just as strong and he'll be a step quicker. Sounds like lightning in a bottle that has the cap taken off anytime the ball is snapped.

 

[Largent80]

Maybe the F.O. has their eye on an F.A. inside tackle, Knighton possibly?

Clark will be quicker and that has to scare opposing DC's.

 

[Largent80]

He will be sliding in Bruce Irvin's Pole.

Further maximized for hotness.

 

[Missing_Clink]

That Bruce Irvin size. Maybe they are gonna try him at SAM

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

Didn't they do this with Marsh too? Wasn't he like 275 in college and now he's 255?