Cowboys + Refs = Trouble

[Hawks46]

This topic always dumbfounds me. There are posters that when they talk football sound intelligent. Then I read them in these tin foil threads and I shake my head. Is that the same guy? :34853_doh:

SC

There is an obvious level of disparity in officiating. I have calmly watched all of this year's games on the GR program and if someone wanted to, that person could put together proof that in the first half of nearly every game the opponent of the Hawks does not get called for similar play.

Whatever the reasons, whether it be because it looks like the Hawks are just more aggressive or because the NFL is trying to control the blowout factor to keep the ratings up there is an issue. I don't deny the Hawks get penalties, but for the opponent to consistently get the benefit of the doubt is a little disturbing.

That said, the Hawks are good enough to win anyway.

I don't think the NFL is out to screw the Hawks, I think they want to keep people glued to the TV for the first half. Just like not having any prime time home games outside of the opener. The NFL makes a tremendous amount of TV money and football is one of the few broadcasts that people will not wait to see on DVR. The marketing folks know that the viewer will not fast forward past the commercials for the most part and that is a premium in today's television.

The Hawks hosted the "game of the week" more often than anyone this season on FOX, national coverage that competed with CBS. If the Hawks are doing there thing at home, those national viewers are going to switch off, maybe go to the other game or just become uninterested.

Conspiracy? No... control over ratings? Why wouldn't they if they could get away with it? The league can justify nearly every call they make on Seattle, but if they miss a call on the opponent the only fans that will argue it are Seahawks fans. The league knows we will watch so it is win/win.

I can see your point, and I think a lot of it is valid. What adds validity to it is that the NFL actually came out and said that the reason we didn't get the normal number of Prime Time home games was that we blow teams out too often in those situations. They admitted to it, and in a way it's a pretty big compliment.

I don't take it personally against the Hawks, but there does seem to be a concerted effort to keep games closer. Just look at the Washington game; anything ticky tack that could be called, was called and on a TD play. The NFL is so popular now because of parity: 3/4 of the fan bases have an honest belief that their team has a shot in a given year. It's better than having 6 dynastic teams and every one else fighting over the scraps.

 

[Polaris]

In terms of getting the wrong end of the officiating this season...I dunno, it's possible. Unless officiating is really in-your-face bad, I try to just shake it off and ignore it. I can think of three games in just about 25 years as a Hawks fan where I would actually blame the loss on poor officiating ('98 at NYJ, '03 at Baltimore, SB XL). People really shouldn't be so obsessed with the calls unless they're actually, truly the primary reason that a result was what it was. And that's rarely the case.

I don't really disagree, but the other side of the coin is that the NFL (like all honest sporting leagues) has an obligation to insure that the officiating in games is fair. I am not asking for perfection, and indeed mistakes can and do happen, but I do expect that all teams on the whole are officiated pretty much the same....and if that turns out not to be the case, then that should be identified and fixed. What bothers me is I am hearing very little interest on the NFL side to admit that this problem even exists let along trying to solve it.....when the data very clearly shows that the problem (for whatever reason) does in fact exist.

I'm not sure that data covering only 16 games for one team in one season can actually demonstrate much of any problem. Unlike baseball, football just doesn't reach anything resembling a meaningful sample size during the course of one year. The penalty disparity, as laid out in this thread, isn't evidence of a problem in and of itself...I very much doubt that there is any instruction given to officials to have a similar number of fouls on both teams. They are simply there to call what penalties they see.

Actually the data set is enough to generate a 'p' value, and the chance that this is simply random variance is on the order of 100,000 to a million to one.

 

[Polaris]

When roughly 1/3 of your penalties (or more) are pre-snap penalties that are entirely avoidable, I don't think PC has a leg to stand on. All this complaining about a disparity really ignores the obvious point -- Seattle commits way too many "dumb" penalties. Weather false starts, lining up in the neutral zone, or illegal formation. Those are ALL on Seattle and they can't be ignored. IF say we cut those pre-snap issues in half, what would the disparity look like then?

The disparity would still be there and still be as bad. What you seem unwilling to admit is that what we are talking about has nothing to do with Seattle penalties pre-snap or otherwise. What we are talking about is the fact that all other NFL franchises seem to commit half as many penalties as normal when they play the Seahawks and only when they play the Seahawks. This isn't a conspiracy theory. It's a verified fact.

What are you talking about? Of course Seattle's penalties DO matter to this conversation. We're talking about the disparity between the 2. Seattle vs opponents and penalties called. If we cut the BS penalties in half that would reduce the "disparity". I get what your saying-- though I have not seen actual data stating that our opponents are getting half as many penalties as they average through the other 15 games. (I've just seen the total and average per game, which doesn't really say much)

But your also talking as if the refs are infallible. Meaning that there are a number of penalties that go uncalled on both sides that refs simply don't see. There've been a couple of "sacks" we've gotten the last few years that could easily have been personal fouls that went uncalled.

Where I see the lack of calls the most is our defensive line getting held and in some cases pretty clearly.

I guess I just chalk up some of this disparity too the notion that teams "get up" to play the champs. The players mention it that other teams really want to knock off the champs, so I figure they'll go all out and execute at a high level, only to come crashing down the next week (hence most of them losing the following week.)

It's nice to see as PC pointed out that the last 6 QTRS Seattle has like 3 penalties total. Hopefully that is sign of things to come during the playoffs.

Actually that's NOT what I am talking about. All I am talking about is the number of penalties other NFL teams have when playing the Seahawks vs the mean (for that team). It has nothing to do with how many penalties Seattle makes.

 

[loafoftatupu]

If the calls go against us vs. the Cowboys, or in the SB, they'll be able to handle it.

I concur.

 

[Uffda]

No Worries , they're playing at home, Lions will win that One I think.

 

[Missing_Clink]

Ok who just saw the refs pick up the flag after blatant PI against the Cowboys? That was fishy as hell. OP may actually be on to something

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Just saw the refs pick up a flag on a BLATANT defensive pass interference on Dullass LB and it was a HUGE call then no call as Detroit was driving with a chance to go up 10 with only 7 mins. left.. Again, if you think the NFL doesn't want the Cowpatties in the Owl and won't do things to make that happen, you are naïve.

 

[chet380]

Just saw the refs pick up a flag on a BLATANT defensive pass interference on Dullass LB and it was a HUGE call then no call as Detroit was driving with a chance to go up 10 with only 7 mins. left.. Again, if you think the NFL doesn't want the Cowpatties in the Owl and won't do things to make that happen, you are naïve.

There'll be an absolute shitrain of abuse if Dallas wins

 

[KARAVARUS]

Defensive hold to keep the ensuing drive alive. This is scary.

 

[Missing_Clink]

This is getting out of hand. It looks like the refs have been instructed to help Dallas

 

[forgivenhawksfan]

Worst flag pick up ever, unbelievable. League better fix this crap immediately.

 

[Rocket]

Ugh...now we are complaining about what might happen?

Beating the rush? 8)

Sure startin' to look this way, what with pulled flag controversies, etc...
Z E B R A S
S U C K !!!

 

[Largent80]

Who "picked up" the obvious penalty. They need to be FIRED immediately. Incredible amount of biased bullSHIT in this game.

NRL not nfl.

Bullshit.

 

[hawkfannj]

Ugh...now we are complaining about what might happen?

Beating the rush? 8)

Sure startin' to look this way, what with pulled flag controversies, etc...
Z E B R A S
S U C K !!!

Doesn't surprise me one bit that the refs give Dallas that omg the whole world saw PI against the cowboys but these are not the droids your looking for refs!

 

[Rocket]

As Dana White says, don't leave it in the hands of the refs (judges)

 

[Mick063]

That Detroit game against Dallas was a travesty. Very bad for the image of NFL football. Reminiscent of Super Bowl XL.

When I see a politician in the owners booth, it reinforces my belief that there is foul play at hand.

 

[Hawkfan77]

That Detroit game against Dallas was a travesty. Very bad for the image of NFL football. Reminiscent of Super Bowl XL.

When I see a politician in the owners booth, it reinforces my belief that there is foul play at hand.

I'm not sure why, but I this comment made me laugh.

:34853_tinfoil: :34853_tinfoil: :34853_tinfoil:

 

[Vpk0718]

Yep

Really hope the Packers win next week

 

[hoxrox]

That was BS. Either egregious incompetence or the narrative's been set.

:nonodallas:

 

[2_0_6]