Chuck Powell interesting idea - trade Russell

[jeremiah]

Kapernich....NEVER. Steve Young in the first 5 years on SF Won 12 lost 8 games. When Joe was hurt, he went 5-5 on a Super Bowl loaded team. He was an unknown at best, and a failure at worst for 5 years in Frisco, in 2 years at TB. Steve Yong was 15 Wins and 26 losses as a QB in his career before he was an "instant success". Last year, RW should have been benched to allow for him to heel. If his backup was not good enough to play, they could have brought in T Jackson.

Sure Wilson has his games, and he is thrilling to watch. The point of the game of football though is to win championships. It is not my fault they have no player on the team they are not confident of starting. That is their job, and they failed at it. Just like they have failed on 2nd and goal for a back to back title, and at putting together a cohesive O line. Now that the defense is barely a top 5, they have to go one way or another. Go big on the O line and pound the ball, or use the midget at QB and pretend he can carry a team into his down years. He is after all already at the point where RB's decline, and without his wheels, he is a subpar QB... The other way to go would be to rebuild the D to dominance, and neglect the O line and hope RW can shine for several years without having multiple ACL surgeries.

Draft choices, pick up #1 grab a QB, build the line and get a great RB somewhere...anywhere... improve the defense and they still have a chance to win.

 

[Largent80]

We have Mc Evoy. Did you see that pass to Procise?

Also Doug Baldwin is a helluva QB.

#Russsucks.

 

[Anthony!]

Kaepernick: ($16million cap hit 2016; 19million in 2017; out of contract 2018)
CMP%: 59.2
YDS: 2241
TD: 16
INT: 4
Rating: 90.7

Wilson ($18.5million cap hit.. 18.8 in 2017; 21 million in 2018)
CMP% 64.7
YDS: 4219
TD: 21
INT: 11
Rating: 92.6

Now add in Wilson was Hur tall season and still out perforemd Kap

 

[Hyak]

Wilson as the QB is among the least of the Seahawks issues. While I get that QB's get more credit and blame and that RW's 2016 year was somewhat disappointing, it's disingenuous to ignore the injuries sustained that impacted his ability to run, mechanics throwing it, and overall offense play calling.

That all said, going another route at QB won't do any of these:

1. Save cap space to reallocate to other areas. Trading RW carries $ 18 M in dead cap money.
2. Improve the OL play, that by all accounts was among the worst in the NFL.
3. Fix the running game, which was 23rd in DVOA metrics as compared to 1, 4,1, and 7 from 2012 - 2015.
4. Make the defensive stars such as Bennett, Thomas, and Kam any younger, faster, and healthier.
5. Replenish defensive depth on all 3 position groups to reduce the gap we have witnessed when starters are out.

The good news IMO is that the 2015/2016 drafts look to be much better than 2013/2014 so perhaps the front office is back on their way in effective drafting.

It's also good news that some things such as OL play and RB play have a real chance to improve organically. The young OL were a big part of the problem in 2016 but one should see all of the 2nd year guys make a jump this year. Add in that Rawls and Procise should be completely healthy going into camp and Collins did come on late. Improve the play at those 2 spots and it's an entirely different offense.

I think the really complex issue the Seahawks are about to face is with some of the core defensive players slowing down. We already saw Bennett, Kam, and Thomas miss significant time this past year and Kam's missed a number of games in the last couple of years too. Odds are that these issues don't improve as they get older.

This discussion and focus on Wilson being the problem is comical.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I would not mind seeing Russell traded, I think it is an interesting thought exercise. The biggest issue here is that our talent acquisition has not been on par with the 2010-2012 years. If you are going to trade Wilson you need to be on point with the draft, and FA game, which our team has been iffy on in the past few years. On defense we have a glaring hole at cornerback. We have Sherman and then a bunch of nobodies, and have nots. Pass rush is good, but inconsistent, we're not on the level of the Broncos during their Superbowl run.

That being said, I do believe Wilson is overrated around here. My biggest gripes about him is the inconsistency, especially from quarter to quarter. The thing I do not like seeing is the fact that he still struggles with the little intricacies of the QB position even though he is a five year vet. When you see Brady, Rodgers, etc, the play starts from the moment they walk up to the LOS. They game the defense, and play mind games. They are masters of the hard count, and the audible game. Even younger QB's such as Carr look more polished in this area than Wilson. Throwing with anticipation is another area I find fault with Wilson. QB's such as Brady will throw their wide receivers open by anticipating where they will be at the end of a route. In fact, this is what QB's such as Matt Hasselbeck built their careers off of. It is such an important skill for a QB, yet I do not see Wilson doing this. This leads to inconsistent play from quarter to quarter. I'll see him miss easy passes, and then make some mind blowing highlight play.

Wilson relies on the knockout punch, more so than other QBs. This becomes apparent when the field becomes short, or when we are in the red-zone. I do think part of this is due to Pete Carroll's offensive philosophy. I think Pete and Bevell has held Russell back as a player. So much dysfunction on every level with our offense, from getting plays in on time, to what our QB is allowed to do, and what he isn't. You can even see this manifest in the way he plays ball these days. He is far more hesitant than he was back in the day.

 

[Year of The Hawk]

Kapernich....NEVER. Steve Young in the first 5 years on SF Won 12 lost 8 games. When Joe was hurt, he went 5-5 on a Super Bowl loaded team. He was an unknown at best, and a failure at worst for 5 years in Frisco, in 2 years at TB. Steve Yong was 15 Wins and 26 losses as a QB in his career before he was an "instant success". Last year, RW should have been benched to allow for him to heel. If his backup was not good enough to play, they could have brought in T Jackson.

Sure Wilson has his games, and he is thrilling to watch. The point of the game of football though is to win championships. It is not my fault they have no player on the team they are not confident of starting. That is their job, and they failed at it. Just like they have failed on 2nd and goal for a back to back title, and at putting together a cohesive O line. Now that the defense is barely a top 5, they have to go one way or another. Go big on the O line and pound the ball, or use the midget at QB and pretend he can carry a team into his down years. He is after all already at the point where RB's decline, and without his wheels, he is a subpar QB... The other way to go would be to rebuild the D to dominance, and neglect the O line and hope RW can shine for several years without having multiple ACL surgeries.

Draft choices, pick up #1 grab a QB, build the line and get a great RB somewhere...anywhere... improve the defense and they still have a chance to win.

Russell on decline. Just wrong in every sense of the word. Also the Front Office takes a risk by not having a decent back up. Then again who would be a "good" back up? 1/2 the starters in the league now suck so the back up situation is even worse. Where do you expect to pull this "quality backup" from anyways. We could use a draft pick and land right where we are now. Or we could blow all our cap on a back up QB. Comparing a RB career to that of a running QB career is WRONG again. Not a valid comparison. As for the last part you said that is probably what they will do. Buff up the D and go with what Oline we have now. Now if they improve somewhat and Russell is healthy I feel it will be a winning formula.

 

[hawkfan68]

Kapernich....NEVER. Steve Young in the first 5 years on SF Won 12 lost 8 games. When Joe was hurt, he went 5-5 on a Super Bowl loaded team. He was an unknown at best, and a failure at worst for 5 years in Frisco, in 2 years at TB. Steve Yong was 15 Wins and 26 losses as a QB in his career before he was an "instant success". Last year, RW should have been benched to allow for him to heel. If his backup was not good enough to play, they could have brought in T Jackson.

Sure Wilson has his games, and he is thrilling to watch. The point of the game of football though is to win championships. It is not my fault they have no player on the team they are not confident of starting. That is their job, and they failed at it. Just like they have failed on 2nd and goal for a back to back title, and at putting together a cohesive O line. Now that the defense is barely a top 5, they have to go one way or another. Go big on the O line and pound the ball, or use the midget at QB and pretend he can carry a team into his down years. He is after all already at the point where RB's decline, and without his wheels, he is a subpar QB... The other way to go would be to rebuild the D to dominance, and neglect the O line and hope RW can shine for several years without having multiple ACL surgeries.

Draft choices, pick up #1 grab a QB, build the line and get a great RB somewhere...anywhere... improve the defense and they still have a chance to win.

Steve Young unknown? I disagree. Steve Young was well known when he was drafted. During his time, BYU was known to put several QBs into the NFL. It was arguably known as "QB U". He chose to go to the USFL first and was the #1 draft pick for LA Express. Then he entered the NFL with the Bucs (NFL Supplemental draft #1 pick), following that with 49ers and rest is history.

Besides all this, there is no one like Steve Young on the Seahawk roster. Steve Young was on the 49ers roster before they parted ways with Joe Montana. Just the same way as Aaron Rodgers was on the Packers roster before Favre left. That is called planning. No confidence that Boykin or anyone else out there is the answer to RW. Tyrod Taylor is a joke. He's such a hot commodity that his current team wants to get rid of him.

 

[Hyak]

I would not mind seeing Russell traded, I think it is an interesting thought exercise. The biggest issue here is that our talent acquisition has not been on par with the 2010-2012 years. If you are going to trade Wilson you need to be on point with the draft, and FA game, which our team has been iffy on in the past few years. On defense we have a glaring hole at cornerback. We have Sherman and then a bunch of nobodies, and have nots. Pass rush is good, but inconsistent, we're not on the level of the Broncos during their Superbowl run.

That being said, I do believe Wilson is overrated around here. My biggest gripes about him is the inconsistency, especially from quarter to quarter. The thing I do not like seeing is the fact that he still struggles with the little intricacies of the QB position even though he is a five year vet. When you see Brady, Rodgers, etc, the play starts from the moment they walk up to the LOS. They game the defense, and play mind games. They are masters of the hard count, and the audible game. Even younger QB's such as Carr look more polished in this area than Wilson. Throwing with anticipation is another area I find fault with Wilson. QB's such as Brady will throw their wide receivers open by anticipating where they will be at the end of a route. In fact, this is what QB's such as Matt Hasselbeck built their careers off of. It is such an important skill for a QB, yet I do not see Wilson doing this. This leads to inconsistent play from quarter to quarter. I'll see him miss easy passes, and then make some mind blowing highlight play.

Wilson relies on the knockout punch, more so than other QBs. This becomes apparent when the field becomes short, or when we are in the red-zone. I do think part of this is due to Pete Carroll's offensive philosophy. I think Pete and Bevell has held Russell back as a player. So much dysfunction on every level with our offense, from getting plays in on time, to what our QB is allowed to do, and what he isn't. You can even see this manifest in the way he plays ball these days. He is far more hesitant than he was back in the day.

You do realize that Wilson currently in 2nd All-Time in QB rating (behind Rodgers) and is 4th All-Time in Yards/Pass Attempt. His TD to INT ratio has always been excellent. His career numbers through 5 years are nearly identical to the prime of Steve Young with the 49ers.

Wilson has areas where he can improve - no doubt. I think his mechanics really suffered in 2016 due to the ankle and knee and that affected his accuracy. He missed some throw that he typically hasn't.

 

[Anthony!]

I would not mind seeing Russell traded, I think it is an interesting thought exercise. The biggest issue here is that our talent acquisition has not been on par with the 2010-2012 years. If you are going to trade Wilson you need to be on point with the draft, and FA game, which our team has been iffy on in the past few years. On defense we have a glaring hole at cornerback. We have Sherman and then a bunch of nobodies, and have nots. Pass rush is good, but inconsistent, we're not on the level of the Broncos during their Superbowl run.

That being said, I do believe Wilson is overrated around here. My biggest gripes about him is the inconsistency, especially from quarter to quarter. The thing I do not like seeing is the fact that he still struggles with the little intricacies of the QB position even though he is a five year vet. When you see Brady, Rodgers, etc, the play starts from the moment they walk up to the LOS. They game the defense, and play mind games. They are masters of the hard count, and the audible game. Even younger QB's such as Carr look more polished in this area than Wilson. Throwing with anticipation is another area I find fault with Wilson. QB's such as Brady will throw their wide receivers open by anticipating where they will be at the end of a route. In fact, this is what QB's such as Matt Hasselbeck built their careers off of. It is such an important skill for a QB, yet I do not see Wilson doing this. This leads to inconsistent play from quarter to quarter. I'll see him miss easy passes, and then make some mind blowing highlight play.

Wilson relies on the knockout punch, more so than other QBs. This becomes apparent when the field becomes short, or when we are in the red-zone. I do think part of this is due to Pete Carroll's offensive philosophy. I think Pete and Bevell has held Russell back as a player. So much dysfunction on every level with our offense, from getting plays in on time, to what our QB is allowed to do, and what he isn't. You can even see this manifest in the way he plays ball these days. He is far more hesitant than he was back in the day.

You do realize that Wilson currently in 2nd All-Time in QB rating (behind Rodgers) and is 4th All-Time in Yards/Pass Attempt. His TD to INT ratio has always been excellent. His career numbers through 5 years are nearly identical to the prime of Steve Young with the 49ers.

Wilson has areas where he can improve - no doubt. I think his mechanics really suffered in 2016 due to the ankle and knee and that affected his accuracy. He missed some throw that he typically hasn't.

Dude while the facts are awesome and there a ton more, it means nothing to the 2-3 here that don't like Wilson and never will. Point in case the OP the 2 newbies who have not been around alot but always seem to agree with the OP, and SD. I mean the name Spindoctor should tell you what you need to know, Any fact to them are fake facts. Point in case the supposed intricacies, yet we have tape and experts showing how Wilson used his eyes or subtle movement to get guys open, or how he threw this guy open or that. Now does he miss sometimes? Of course if you watched the SB you saw Brady miss several it happens. Heck Baldwin said on one TD it was Wilson who audibled and it was not the first. These things fly in the face of those detractors so they make stuff up. I mean for those who are not aware PFF had Wilson has the #5 QB in the league last year. That says something but does not support their agenda so is ignored.

 

[theincrediblesok]

So Dak is the measurement for future QB's right and he should, at his height of 6'2" have no issues especially at the middle of the field correct? Then why did he barely attack the middle of the field shown by the chart below for his rookie season? I think having a running back that had power plays for more than 70% help with that factor.

Also the 2nd chart is of all the opponents' passing against the Cowboys, even they barely hit the middle of the field if you average it out. I think most teams rather not risk pass in the middle of the field if they can have a running back go straight into it. The problem was we barely had success going right in the middle. How many times did our RB get stuff behind the LOS this year.

Source: http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2017/1/1 ... -otherwise

Dak's Season



Cowboy's Opponents

 

[Anthony!]

So Dak is the measurement for future QB's right and he should, at his height of 6'2" have no issues especially at the middle of the field correct? Then why did he barely attack the middle of the field shown by the chart below for his rookie season? I think having a running back that had power plays for more than 70% help with that factor.

Also the 2nd chart is of all the opponents' passing against the Cowboys, even they barely hit the middle of the field if you average it out. I think most teams rather not risk pass in the middle of the field if they can have a running back go straight into it. The problem was we barely had success going right in the middle. How many times did our RB get stuff behind the LOS this year.

Source: http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2017/1/1 ... -otherwise

Dak's Season



Cowboy's Opponents

NICE

 

[Uncle Si]

Kaepernick: ($16million cap hit 2016; 19million in 2017; out of contract 2018)
CMP%: 59.2
YDS: 2241
TD: 16
INT: 4
Rating: 90.7

Wilson ($18.5million cap hit.. 18.8 in 2017; 21 million in 2018)
CMP% 64.7
YDS: 4219
TD: 21
INT: 11
Rating: 92.6

Now add in Wilson was Hur tall season and still out perforemd Kap

Correct... Even while hurt... which is the point of these stats...

 

[Tical21]

Also note that Kaep had neither Jimmy Graham nor Doug Baldwin. So you're telling me we can cut out int's by almost 66%?

 

[Uncle Si]

Also note that Kaep had neither Jimmy Graham nor Doug Baldwin. So you're telling me we can cut out int's by almost 66%?

He had an entirely different team even...

Cut out about 50% of the yards as well.. if you want to go stat by stat.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

You know it's the off season when a thread about trading the greatest QB in franchise history in his prime is 235 posts long.

 

[Seymour]

Also note that Kaep had neither Jimmy Graham nor Doug Baldwin. So you're telling me we can cut out int's by almost 66%?

You can't be serious? You think the ONE SEASON he was injured (multiple times), had the worst oline in the NFL, had the worst run support he's had to date, is the season that sets the standard to how he should be measured? How completely idiotic. It makes far more sense to use the previous year he was not injured, played mostly without Lynch, and oline was still poor but not DEAD LAST in the NFL. Or better yet, use his career numbers.

Wilson 2015 QBR 110.1 TD 34 Int 8 Pass Yds 4024. Rush Yds 553

That is the Wilson we should expect to see in 2017, and that is the QB we need to "replace" according to you.

Go find us that QB, or better yet....just please stop with the madness!!

 

[LymonHawk]

You know it's the off season when a thread about trading the greatest QB in franchise history in his prime is 235 posts long.

Make that 237.

 

[sdog1981]

You know it's the off season when a thread about trading the greatest QB in franchise history in his prime is 235 posts long.

Make that 237.

238 Now smart guy

 

[Ambrose83]

239. It's idiotic to even entertain the idea of trading Wilson. I seriously question anyone's logic and reasoning abilities that think otherwise.

 

[Uncle Si]

Since .net is not actually going to influence the Seahawks decisions regarding Wilson (or any other player or coach) then why is this "debate" make people so awkward?