Bye Week Poll: Has Bevell seen the light?

[Hasselbeck]

Fire him! And replace him with Ken Whisenhunt

We're stuck with Bevell until the offseason. You don't fire an OC mid-season and hire a completely different guy.

This is entirely false. Lombardi for Detroit and Pep Hamilton of the Colts have been canned already. Also, if teams will dismiss their head coach mid-season not sure why a coordinator would be off limits. Pete probably won't do it, unfortunately.

13 points and people are suggesting Bevell has seen the light? Oh, dear.

No it's not entirely false, because the Lions and Colts promoted a position coach to OC. Much different than bringing in an entirely different coordinator with 8 games to play.

They will run the same offenses, just with a different philosophy.. and btw.. the Lions had their worst offensive game of the year following the switch sooo there you go.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Door number 3 Laloosh. Bevell isn't capable of being an NFL OC. Hopefully he isn't the only assistant coach canned after the season. Since it seems he and Cable have something on Pete.

 

[Hasselbeck]

You don't fire an OC mid-season and hire a completely different guy.

Perhaps I'm mistaken but didn't Baltimore do just that in 2012 and wind up winning the Super Bowl?

EDIT: Via wikipedia

Offensive Coordinator – Cam Cameron (Weeks 1–14) Jim Caldwell (Weeks 15-Playoffs)

I should have phrased it better..

It's not rare that an OC gets fired and another guy on the staff is then promoted up. But no team fires an OC and hires someone that had no association with the team at all.

If Bevell got fired, I imagine Cable would be elevated to OC. They wouldn't go outside the organization to bring someone in.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Just glad that Pete has more knowledge of football than the negativists on here and realizes he has a gem of an OC in Bev. The guy has helped us to back-to-back Super Bowls and after a little turbulence it appears our team is headed that way again.
I swear, I'm beginning to think that a bunch of fans from other teams has infiltrated this forum and are masquerading as Seahawk fans. It's the only way I can figure it.

 

[OkieHawk]

Just glad that Pete has more knowledge of football than the negativists on here and realizes he has a gem of an OC in Bev. The guy has helped us to back-to-back Super Bowls and after a little turbulence it appears our team is headed that way again.
I swear, I'm beginning to think that a bunch of fans from other teams has infiltrated this forum and are masquerading as Seahawk fans. It's the only way I can figure it.

I swear, I'm beginning to think some fans are delusional and faking sanity. It's the only way I can figure it.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Just glad that Pete has more knowledge of football than the negativists on here and realizes he has a gem of an OC in Bev. The guy has helped us to back-to-back Super Bowls and after a little turbulence it appears our team is headed that way again.
I swear, I'm beginning to think that a bunch of fans from other teams has infiltrated this forum and are masquerading as Seahawk fans. It's the only way I can figure it.

I swear, I'm beginning to think some fans are delusional and faking sanity. It's the only way I can figure it.

Starting with you, right?

 

[Laloosh]

Let's stay in our lane, folks. No need to get personal.

 

[mikeak]

Just glad that Pete has more knowledge of football than the negativists on here and realizes he has a gem of an OC in Bev. The guy has helped us to back-to-back Super Bowls and after a little turbulence it appears our team is headed that way again.
I swear, I'm beginning to think that a bunch of fans from other teams has infiltrated this forum and are masquerading as Seahawk fans. It's the only way I can figure it.

Ignoring the personal attack style and focusing on the message. The gem of an OC is getting worse and was never good to begin with. The team is winning DESPITE Bevell. Lets look at some team numbers. If I trended the same at work I would be FIRED

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff

Middle of the pack when it comes to lenght of drives YET second to last in TDs / drive

Is that the result of a gem of an offensive coordinator? He clearly has the resources to move the ball across the field yet continous to put up failures in the redzone. One of those two Superbowls you mention was LOST because of such utter failure.

This "gem" of an OC has us as middle of the pack for three and out drives -- http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/three-and-out-percentage/2015/

and lets go back in time - 2013 and guess what problem we had that we were working on. Who knew we would get worse?

http://www.si.com/nfl/audibles/2013/10/ ... e-offenses

and this also gives us this -- QB rating in redzone -- http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats ... zone/2015/

2015 -- 28th..........
2014 -- 18th
2013 -- 16th
2012 - 5th!!!!!

As I said in my original post in this thread. Several drives looked better but we SUCK in the redzone. Until that gets fixed or at least improved the team will not have a great season

 

[Siouxhawk]

Just glad that Pete has more knowledge of football than the negativists on here and realizes he has a gem of an OC in Bev. The guy has helped us to back-to-back Super Bowls and after a little turbulence it appears our team is headed that way again.
I swear, I'm beginning to think that a bunch of fans from other teams has infiltrated this forum and are masquerading as Seahawk fans. It's the only way I can figure it.

Ignoring the personal attack style and focusing on the message. The gem of an OC is getting worse and was never good to begin with. The team is winning DESPITE Bevell. Lets look at some team numbers. If I trended the same at work I would be FIRED

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff

Middle of the pack when it comes to lenght of drives YET second to last in TDs / drive

Is that the result of a gem of an offensive coordinator? He clearly has the resources to move the ball across the field yet continous to put up failures in the redzone. One of those two Superbowls you mention was LOST because of such utter failure.

This "gem" of an OC has us as middle of the pack for three and out drives -- http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/three-and-out-percentage/2015/

and lets go back in time - 2013 and guess what problem we had that we were working on. Who knew we would get worse?

http://www.si.com/nfl/audibles/2013/10/ ... e-offenses

and this also gives us this -- QB rating in redzone -- http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats ... zone/2015/

2015 -- 28th..........
2014 -- 18th
2013 -- 16th
2012 - 5th!!!!!

Then there's the stats that say we have had the most explosive plays for scores and we run one of the higher percentage of plays in the red zone. I'd rather be a team that does that than one who is there fewer times and happens to punch in a few more TDs.
Also consider that the 3 points from a FG is going to be worth more to us because our defense has been the best in the league at surrendering points. That makes us less chancy in the red zone. If we had a sieve of a defense, that whole red zone claim many of you hang your argumentive hats on goes away because we become more of a risk taker.
I also point to the main stat -- 2 for 2 in Super Bowl appearances the past 2 years. Anyone who says Bevell didn't have a part in that doesn't have much of a grasp on reality. He more than pulled his weight in reaching that plateau and every coach on the staff and player on the roster would tell you that.

 

[canfan]

Just glad that Pete has more knowledge of football than the negativists on here and realizes he has a gem of an OC in Bev. The guy has helped us to back-to-back Super Bowls and after a little turbulence it appears our team is headed that way again.
I swear, I'm beginning to think that a bunch of fans from other teams has infiltrated this forum and are masquerading as Seahawk fans. It's the only way I can figure it.

Ignoring the personal attack style and focusing on the message. The gem of an OC is getting worse and was never good to begin with. The team is winning DESPITE Bevell. Lets look at some team numbers. If I trended the same at work I would be FIRED

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff

Middle of the pack when it comes to lenght of drives YET second to last in TDs / drive

Is that the result of a gem of an offensive coordinator? He clearly has the resources to move the ball across the field yet continous to put up failures in the redzone. One of those two Superbowls you mention was LOST because of such utter failure.

This "gem" of an OC has us as middle of the pack for three and out drives -- http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/three-and-out-percentage/2015/

and lets go back in time - 2013 and guess what problem we had that we were working on. Who knew we would get worse?

http://www.si.com/nfl/audibles/2013/10/ ... e-offenses

and this also gives us this -- QB rating in redzone -- http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats ... zone/2015/

2015 -- 28th..........
2014 -- 18th
2013 -- 16th
2012 - 5th!!!!!

As I said in my original post in this thread. Several drives looked better but we SUCK in the redzone. Until that gets fixed or at least improved the team will not have a great season

This last stat highlights Bevel's failure as a playcaller. In 2012 RW was an unknown factor and defenses didn't have a good plan for keeping him contained. Defenses have evolved over the last 3 years and now have a "book" on how to play the Seahawks in the RedZone. Football is a constant chess match between the offense and the defense, yet Bevel is still running out the same stuff that he did in 2012 and wondering why it doesn't work. Time to flush and hit the reset button.

 

[mikeak]

Then there's the stats that say we have had the most explosive plays for scores and we run one of the higher percentage of plays in the red zone. I'd rather be a team that does that than one who is there fewer times and happens to punch in a few more TDs.
Also consider that the 3 points from a FG is going to be worth more to us because our defense has been the best in the league at surrendering points. That makes us less chancy in the red zone. If we had a sieve of a defense, that whole red zone claim many of you hang your argumentive hats on goes away because we become more of a risk taker.
I also point to the main stat -- 2 for 2 in Super Bowl appearances the past 2 years. Anyone who says Bevell didn't have a part in that doesn't have much of a grasp on reality. He more than pulled his weight in reaching that plateau and every coach on the staff and player on the roster would tell you that.

If you are going to mention stats should you not acutally show them? I mean I can mention then there is the stat that says we are the best team and now it is true?

Big Plays attempted is 27th!!! in the league-- http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats ... tics/2015/

Now we have a higher success ratio which puts successful big plays at 44 of which 31 are running. I don't think anyone complains about our ability to run the ball in general. Having Marshawn Lynch on the Team with Cable figuring out the O-line for running doesn't make Bevell a succesful coach. We have 13 big passing plays. That is 20th in the league -- still a good stat???

My point of the links is that we cannot coach in the redzone. If you looked at the data further

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff

If you go to the last column you see DSR -- Drive Success rate which is defined as simply either getting a first down or a TD. We are 28th. If we drove the field to settle for FGs then that ranking would be way higher

You are correct in that we lean on the defense and our TOP / Dr is 5th but that is only 18 secs more / drive than the average.

Still being 28th in pts / drive cannot be attributed to leaning on the defense. That is a reflection of failure by the offense. The offense goal is to take time and score points not just to do either. The offense failure to move the ball also shows in average starting position which puts at 24th per drive.

It is possible for an organization to succed despite of individual. Bevell can have a part but the fact that he is below average is not a contradiction to overall success. You just said this team leans on the Defense and for them to succeed....

 

[Siouxhawk]

Then there's the stats that say we have had the most explosive plays for scores and we run one of the higher percentage of plays in the red zone. I'd rather be a team that does that than one who is there fewer times and happens to punch in a few more TDs.
Also consider that the 3 points from a FG is going to be worth more to us because our defense has been the best in the league at surrendering points. That makes us less chancy in the red zone. If we had a sieve of a defense, that whole red zone claim many of you hang your argumentive hats on goes away because we become more of a risk taker.
I also point to the main stat -- 2 for 2 in Super Bowl appearances the past 2 years. Anyone who says Bevell didn't have a part in that doesn't have much of a grasp on reality. He more than pulled his weight in reaching that plateau and every coach on the staff and player on the roster would tell you that.

If you are going to mention stats should you not acutally show them? I mean I can mention then there is the stat that says we are the best team and now it is true?

My point of the links is that we cannot coach in the redzone. If you looked at the data further

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff

If you go to the last column you see DSR -- Drive Success rate which is defined as simply either getting a first down or a TD. We are 28th. If we drove the field to settle for FGs then that ranking would be way higher

You are correct in that we lean on the defense and our TOP / Dr is 5th but that is only 18 secs more / drive than the average.

Still being 28th in pts / drive cannot be attributed to leaning on the defense. That is a reflection of failure by the offense. The offense goal is to take time and score points not just to do either. The offense failure to move the ball also shows in average starting position which puts at 24th per drive.

It is possible for an organization to succed despite of individual. Bevell can have a part but the fact that he is below average is not a contradiction to overall success. You just said this team leans on the Defense and for them to succeed....

The one thing you need to remember is what our formula has been the last 3 years -- pound the ball with Marshawn, wear the opposing defense down and then force our will in the 4th quarter. That kind of gameplan is not going to produce the shiny Madden-like stats you dream of. But it works.
I'd say that if your a stat monger and you derive pleasure from big numbers, the Seahawks are not a team for you. But there's other ways to win a football game.
The one stat I enjoy is the one that says we've out scored our opponents about 70 percent of the time the past 3 years. That's really the only one that matters.

 

[mikeak]

I am not typically a stat monger but I see the below as a huge problem. I think a lot of our scoring is from the defense and when you add players like we have tried on offense and keep failing you have a problem. It isn't about stats as much as it clearly show a trend that is failing

Red Zone QB rating
2015 -- 28th..........
2014 -- 18th
2013 -- 16th
2012 - 5th!!!!!

 

[Siouxhawk]

I am not typically a stat monger but I see the below as a huge problem. I think a lot of our scoring is from the defense and when you add players like we have tried on offense and keep failing you have a problem. It isn't about stats as much as it clearly show a trend that is failing

Red Zone QB rating
2015 -- 28th..........
2014 -- 18th
2013 -- 16th
2012 - 5th!!!!!

With an O line that has taken time to gel. We have 8 games to go and our line looks better. We'll improve in that area

 

[mikeak]

Redzone passes are usually quicker as you don't want for long pass plays to develop. The trend has been there for 4 years straight. The only change needed is philosophy

 

[marko358]

With an O line that has taken time to gel. We have 8 games to go and our line looks better. We'll improve in that area

This is not a foregone conclusion. You can point to last year or the year before but the o-line this season is abysmally worse and is an injury away from being a death blow to our chances.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

I was always advocating for Jimmy Graham to run seam routes cause they seem to work against us. Graham ran a lot of slants from beside the left tackle. I've been wanting to see some explosion from our offense. Consistent scoring is still missing. Our offense cannot sustain consistent touchdowns even when the offensive line does not give up a sack. The pressure is still affecting Wilson but our offense will need to score more than a touchdown a game to win consistently and allow the defense to play it's very best.

Maybe after the bye we will see improvements.

 

[ringless]

I don't get why there is so much hate on Bevell.

People think that the Seahawks don't blow teams out. Guess what is 2014 Seattle finished with 140 NET POINTS. Good for 2nd in the league. Only behind NE by 15 points. They led the league in explosive plays. They had a top 10 ranked offense. To go with the best defense in the league.

In 2013 they had 186 Net points, good again for 2nd in the league. This time only behind Denver. Again had a top 10 offense.
The above information is indisputable. Lots of explosive plays.

Whats the difference this year? Well the OL for one. Only one of the most important cogs on the field. With a bad O-line you could have AJ Green, Antonio Brown, Odell Beckam Jr, Gurley, Wilson, Graham at the skill positions and in a way it just wont matter. I've exaggerated on this one a little but it's a valid point.

What is Seahawks football? It's a suffocating Defense that creates great field position throughout the game for the offense.
With a ground and pound attack on offense that wears a team down for the first 2-3 quarters before the opposition is gassed. At that point I have seen the flood gates open in years past. Game will be close, then end in a blowout in the 4th. Which led to those absolutely massive point differentials above.

Too much blame is going to Bevell if you look at the facts. He really hasn't been given much to work with. Besides the worst OL in all of football. As well as some below average WR's. There is not a ton of talent on that side of the ball. You have Graham, Lynch, Wilson. No OL. Stop blaming Bevell. Look at the facts.

And Whisenhunt is not the answer! What has he ever accomplished? Phillip Rivers was good before him, and good after him. The Cardinals sucked until Warner came along and ran his own offense. Not Ken's offense.

Bevell calls an offense that is so incredibly complimentary to Seattle's defense it's unbelievable. But he's being asked to put to build a car without any tools

PS 2012. 3rd in the League in net points.

 

[Siouxhawk]

I don't get why there is so much hate on Bevell.

People think that the Seahawks don't blow teams out. Guess what is 2014 Seattle finished with 140 NET POINTS. Good for 2nd in the league. Only behind NE by 15 points. They led the league in explosive plays. They had a top 10 ranked offense. To go with the best defense in the league.

In 2013 they had 186 Net points, good again for 2nd in the league. This time only behind Denver. Again had a top 10 offense.
The above information is indisputable. Lots of explosive plays.

Whats the difference this year? Well the OL for one. Only one of the most important cogs on the field. With a bad O-line you could have AJ Green, Antonio Brown, Odell Beckam Jr, Gurley, Wilson, Graham at the skill positions and in a way it just wont matter. I've exaggerated on this one a little but it's a valid point.

What is Seahawks football? It's a suffocating Defense that creates great field position throughout the game for the offense.
With a ground and pound attack on offense that wears a team down for the first 2-3 quarters before the opposition is gassed. At that point I have seen the flood gates open in years past. Game will be close, then end in a blowout in the 4th. Which led to those absolutely massive point differentials above.

Too much blame is going to Bevell if you look at the facts. He really hasn't been given much to work with. Besides the worst OL in all of football. As well as some below average WR's. There is not a ton of talent on that side of the ball. You have Graham, Lynch, Wilson. No OL. Stop blaming Bevell. Look at the facts.

And Whisenhunt is not the answer! What has he ever accomplished? Phillip Rivers was good before him, and good after him. The Cardinals sucked until Warner came along and ran his own offense. Not Ken's offense.

Bevell calls an offense that is so incredibly complimentary to Seattle's defense it's unbelievable. But he's being asked to put to build a car without any tools

PS 2012. 3rd in the League in net points.

Thanks ringless. It's what I've been maintaining all along. I guess people just want to skim the surface and dwell on 13 points rather than all the particulars of those 13 points, notwithstanding that it led to a win.

 

[Alexander]

I don't get why there is so much hate on Bevell.

People think that the Seahawks don't blow teams out. Guess what is 2014 Seattle finished with 140 NET POINTS. Good for 2nd in the league. Only behind NE by 15 points. They led the league in explosive plays. They had a top 10 ranked offense. To go with the best defense in the league.

In 2013 they had 186 Net points, good again for 2nd in the league. This time only behind Denver. Again had a top 10 offense.
The above information is indisputable. Lots of explosive plays.

Whats the difference this year? Well the OL for one. Only one of the most important cogs on the field. With a bad O-line you could have AJ Green, Antonio Brown, Odell Beckam Jr, Gurley, Wilson, Graham at the skill positions and in a way it just wont matter. I've exaggerated on this one a little but it's a valid point.

What is Seahawks football? It's a suffocating Defense that creates great field position throughout the game for the offense.
With a ground and pound attack on offense that wears a team down for the first 2-3 quarters before the opposition is gassed. At that point I have seen the flood gates open in years past. Game will be close, then end in a blowout in the 4th. Which led to those absolutely massive point differentials above.

Too much blame is going to Bevell if you look at the facts. He really hasn't been given much to work with. Besides the worst OL in all of football. As well as some below average WR's. There is not a ton of talent on that side of the ball. You have Graham, Lynch, Wilson. No OL. Stop blaming Bevell. Look at the facts.

And Whisenhunt is not the answer! What has he ever accomplished? Phillip Rivers was good before him, and good after him. The Cardinals sucked until Warner came along and ran his own offense. Not Ken's offense.

Bevell calls an offense that is so incredibly complimentary to Seattle's defense it's unbelievable. But he's being asked to put to build a car without any tools

PS 2012. 3rd in the League in net points.

Thanks ringless. It's what I've been maintaining all along. I guess people just want to skim the surface and dwell on 13 points rather than all the particulars of those 13 points, notwithstanding that it led to a win.

If I hear someone say one more time "we only scored 13 points so Bevell sucks" I'm going to lose it. I'm not a Bevell lover like you, but there are a LOT of reasons why an offense might struggle besides the OC being terrible.

The Hawks have been very successful on offense the last three years with Bevell at OC. Maybe that success is in spite of his shortcomings, but even so, it doesn't explain the drop-off from then to now. There are, however, a couple of way more obvious reasons. Such as turnover on the O-line. Or Wilson having to take responsibility for protections to a much greater degree than in prior years (since Unger is now gone).