Broncos very near deal for Colin Kaepernick

[Basis4day]

The sticking point for me is that it was Kaepernick who demanded the trade (Correct me if i'm wrong).

As a result, I think he needs to be amicable to negotiating a reduction in his contract. Not necessarily as much as the Broncos are demanding, but not a line in the sand as a non starter. If you want to keep your full guarantees, so be it, but that means you need to be open to remaining on the Niners or to getting cut and only getting your guarantees.

Had the 49ers simply wanted to trade Kaep on there own, by all means Kaep should stick to his guns and not budge on his contract.

 

[kearly]

Kaep is not a great qb but I think he is a great buy low option.

Osweiler Reminds me of Matt Schaub and Matt Cassel. Serviceable for a short time. Serviceable starters at qb aren't as cheap as people think, unless they are old or lack prototypical qualities. Osweiler is a 20 something with prototypical tools. Of course he got paid. It's not about merit, it's about market.

 

[bjornanderson21]

All I can say is that horse-face has some serious cajones on him.

Let me see if I have this straight.

We wan't you to take a 4th round value for your QB AND we want YOU to pay half his salary.

Yeah. John? Yeah. Go screw yourself. LOL.

You want him or you don't. You can pay him or you can't. The Niners shouldn't give them $$$ to take Kap away any more than Kap should accept a pay cut.

The niners have 3 options:
Keep him and pay him
Cut him and take a dead cap hit
Trade him

Would the Niners WANT to pay part of Kaep's salary in a trade? Of course not.

But business is not about doing what you want, it's about doing what's best for the business.

If the Niners have already decided Kaep is done (i don't know if they have or not) then trading him and paying part of his salary is the "least bad" option. If the Niners don't want him and teams aren't too interested in his services then that means he HAS TO play for less if he wants to continue playing in the NFL. He can only accept what teams offer.

If some team would've been willing to trade for Housh if we picked up part of the salary (instead of his WHOLE salary) the Seahawks would've jumped at the chance.

Paying part of Kaep's salary makes a lot more sense than you think.

 

[KajunNiner]

I don't believe Kaep is going anywhere.

 

[Scottemojo]

The Broncos are not nickel and diming Kaep because of any view of his abilities. They are desperate to have a QB as good as he can be. his legs would be a deadly weapon in 4th quarters at home, and I think he matches the Coach's system too.

They are nickel and diming because they need the saved money to retain other guys on that D.

 

[Marvin49]

All I can say is that horse-face has some serious cajones on him.

Let me see if I have this straight.

We wan't you to take a 4th round value for your QB AND we want YOU to pay half his salary.

Yeah. John? Yeah. Go screw yourself. LOL.

You want him or you don't. You can pay him or you can't. The Niners shouldn't give them $$$ to take Kap away any more than Kap should accept a pay cut.

The niners have 3 options:
Keep him and pay him
Cut him and take a dead cap hit
Trade him

Would the Niners WANT to pay part of Kaep's salary in a trade? Of course not.

But business is not about doing what you want, it's about doing what's best for the business.

If the Niners have already decided Kaep is done (i don't know if they have or not) then trading him and paying part of his salary is the "least bad" option. If the Niners don't want him and teams aren't too interested in his services then that means he HAS TO play for less if he wants to continue playing in the NFL. He can only accept what teams offer.

If some team would've been willing to trade for Housh if we picked up part of the salary (instead of his WHOLE salary) the Seahawks would've jumped at the chance.

Paying part of Kaep's salary makes a lot more sense than you think.

1) By "Huge cap hit", do you mean pay the portion of his contract that is already guaranteed to him? As far as I know I don't think there is any or very little acceleration on the contract so if he's on the team or released hes still in the 11-15 mill range depending on playing time and they are 50 mil under the cap WITH his contract already counted.

2) Trading him has always been the most likely scenario, but the 49ers aren't exactly up a creek if a trade can't be worked out. He just stays on the roster and gets a shot to see what he can do with Kelly.

3) Sure, they might take on a portion of that salary, but it will take much more than the value of a 4th round pick if they are giving up the player AND taking on a sizable portion of his contract.

4) I think part of the problem is that people seem to think the 49ers are desparate to get rid of Kap. I think thats a falacy. Are they in love with him and ready to annoint him the QB of the future in SF? No...but I also don't think they are dying to dump him and will give him up for very little compensation AND pay a portion of his contract to be done with him.

 

[SmokinHawk]

Kaep has intriguing physical tools but lacks the mental makeup to take the next step. I don't blame Denver for trying to get him cheap, but they won't succeed. Kap will make 14 million this year no matter who he plays for. Denver is basically trying to get him on the hook for two years, for just two million more. If it were me, I'd take the 14 million for this year and force the team's hand next offseason. Even an injured Colin Kaepernick can garner better than 2 million next year in a trade or open market deal.

 

[kearly]

If you call a team and ask about trading for their franchise QB who is still in his prime, this will typically result in a hearty laugh and a quick hangup. It's likely that SF is shopping Kaep, but even if they aren't, the fact that they are in serious discussions to trade him speaks volumes of how they (correctly) view his future with the franchise. If Kelly believed that Kaep was his guy, these talks wouldn't be happening.

We all know that Kaep is done in SF barring a dramatic turn of events. Even if SF kept him it wouldn't be all that different from Washington keeping RG3 last year. That said, regardless of SF's intentions, Kaep is still SF property until he isn't. Just because everyone knows you badly want to sell something doesn't mean you will sell it for free.

The 49ers are basically taking the exact same stance the Seahawks did before they traded Matt Flynn. They would prefer to trade him, but if they have to keep him they are prepared to do so. Not because they want to keep him, but because it is a necessary stance to take when attempting to build leverage in trade talks.

 

[KitsapGuy]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JamesPalmerTV/status/718168209153626112[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/718170534480113664[/tweet]

 

[Maulbert]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JamesPalmerTV/status/718168209153626112[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/718170534480113664[/tweet]

Isn't 49ers-Broncos a traditional preseason matchup? I don't really see that as an attempt to draw interest.

 

[Seafan]

Denver is looking at Manziel.

 

[Jville]

Denver is looking at Manziel.

Broncos have no plans to sign Manziel >>> [urltargetblank]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/04/07/broncos-have-no-plans-to-sign-manziel/[/urltargetblank]

 

[rideaducati]

The most insulting thing about the whole Kap to Denver saga is Elway being an arrogant prick about it.

As someone pointed out to me, Elway was ready to give BROCK OSWEILER $16 million per year after 7 starts and a lower career QB rating than Kap, and here he is nickel and diming Kap like he's garbage.

Let's get one thing straight here:

Colin Kaepernick has done way more in this league than Osweiler has so far. Comparing their first 7 career starts isn't even on the same level.....one guy plays in a Super Bowl throwing 300 yards on 10 YPA, the other backs up a QB on his last legs who only won because his defense was lights out.

One forced an entrenched starter to be traded, the other lucked out on a dinosaur retiring.

Osweiler may well go on to be a decent QB in this league but we've yet to see any proof of that. This logic of giving him $16 per, you would have had to give Kap at least $20 if he was an FA after 2012.

Osweiler sat on the bench for a lot longer than Kap, had more weapons than him and still got displaced by a subpar QB.

The entire thing is ridiculous.

You either believe you're getting 2012/2013 Kap or you're not with this trade.

If Crabtree catches just one of several passes at the end of 2012 or 2013, Kaepernick is a top 5-10 QB in this league till the end of time.

Crazy world we live in.

Kaepernick's first 10 games were prior to teams knowing what he could do...teams found out and Kaepernick's abilities stayed the same. Kaepernick is not a good QB...He has never been a good QB... He will never be a good QB. Because the niners were winning, you niner fans actually think he was good. If you rate QBs that way, Dilfer was the best QB for one year too.

This revisionist history in regards to Kaepernick is funny. He wasn't good.

 

[NINEster]

The most insulting thing about the whole Kap to Denver saga is Elway being an arrogant prick about it.

As someone pointed out to me, Elway was ready to give BROCK OSWEILER $16 million per year after 7 starts and a lower career QB rating than Kap, and here he is nickel and diming Kap like he's garbage.

Let's get one thing straight here:

Colin Kaepernick has done way more in this league than Osweiler has so far. Comparing their first 7 career starts isn't even on the same level.....one guy plays in a Super Bowl throwing 300 yards on 10 YPA, the other backs up a QB on his last legs who only won because his defense was lights out.

One forced an entrenched starter to be traded, the other lucked out on a dinosaur retiring.

Osweiler may well go on to be a decent QB in this league but we've yet to see any proof of that. This logic of giving him $16 per, you would have had to give Kap at least $20 if he was an FA after 2012.

Osweiler sat on the bench for a lot longer than Kap, had more weapons than him and still got displaced by a subpar QB.

The entire thing is ridiculous.

You either believe you're getting 2012/2013 Kap or you're not with this trade.

If Crabtree catches just one of several passes at the end of 2012 or 2013, Kaepernick is a top 5-10 QB in this league till the end of time.

Crazy world we live in.

Kaepernick's first 10 games were prior to teams knowing what he could do...teams found out and Kaepernick's abilities stayed the same. Kaepernick is not a good QB...He has never been a good QB... He will never be a good QB. Because the niners were winning, you niner fans actually think he was good. If you rate QBs that way, Dilfer was the best QB for one year too.

This revisionist history in regards to Kaepernick is funny. He wasn't good.

And I could sit here and launch a lot of similar diatribe towards Wilson.

Let's take a look at Wilson's career:

2012 playoffs - lost in Atlanta. Kap won in Atlanta.
2013 playoffs - Barely beat the Saints. Barely beat the 49ers. Emphasis on barely not just on final scores, but the contributions needed from Lynch and that D. You drop down those two factors to 2015 levels and the Hawks lose both games with a 99% certainty.
2014 playoffs - Wilson plays a decent game at home against the Panthers. Need I elaborate more on Green Bay? Super Bowl, Wilson makes a few plays to Mathews. Otherwise New England had him pretty well controlled. Brady had to win with no running game, and if Wilson had similar output from Lynch this game isn't close.
2015 playoffs - After an "amazing" regular season, Wilson certainly underperformed in the postseason.

Wilson played decently in his Super Bowls, but the road to get there was always worse than the final game.

Here's what you're missing:

Kap may not be a great QB. But he was a good QB that got his teams far. If you want to deny that, then do know that Kap would have gotten SF into the SB against the Patriots back in 2011 (not as a rookie, but just saying).

You want to pin it on the San Francisco 49ers being so awesome? (revisionist history has a majority of .NET talking smack about SF all the way up to the 2013 NFCCG when finally "damn, they're a good team" was admitted)....

How about Carson Palmer this year? What happened there? Andy Dalton's Bengals have yet to make a real dent in the postseason, no?

Wilson supposedly answered his critics this regular season "carrying" the Hawks at last with #s to show.......but in the postseason we saw none of that.

The Broncos would have loved a SB rematch this year.

We can play this game both ways, Panigale.

Wilson and Kap were very much neck and neck in the early years up to 2014. This past year Wilson pulled away because his team didn't become overnight garbage. Carroll, Bevell and Schneider have done a good job keeping a good team and scheme around him.

 

[TAB420]

Stats are great. But I would rather have that player who can make the plays when the game is on the line. This is where RW shines and CK struggles. If the game is on the line, I want the ball in RW hands. Can you honestly say the same about CK?

 

[CPHawk]

The most insulting thing about the whole Kap to Denver saga is Elway being an arrogant prick about it.

As someone pointed out to me, Elway was ready to give BROCK OSWEILER $16 million per year after 7 starts and a lower career QB rating than Kap, and here he is nickel and diming Kap like he's garbage.

Let's get one thing straight here:

Colin Kaepernick has done way more in this league than Osweiler has so far. Comparing their first 7 career starts isn't even on the same level.....one guy plays in a Super Bowl throwing 300 yards on 10 YPA, the other backs up a QB on his last legs who only won because his defense was lights out.

One forced an entrenched starter to be traded, the other lucked out on a dinosaur retiring.

Osweiler may well go on to be a decent QB in this league but we've yet to see any proof of that. This logic of giving him $16 per, you would have had to give Kap at least $20 if he was an FA after 2012.

Osweiler sat on the bench for a lot longer than Kap, had more weapons than him and still got displaced by a subpar QB.

The entire thing is ridiculous.

You either believe you're getting 2012/2013 Kap or you're not with this trade.

If Crabtree catches just one of several passes at the end of 2012 or 2013, Kaepernick is a top 5-10 QB in this league till the end of time.

Crazy world we live in.

Kaepernick's first 10 games were prior to teams knowing what he could do...teams found out and Kaepernick's abilities stayed the same. Kaepernick is not a good QB...He has never been a good QB... He will never be a good QB. Because the niners were winning, you niner fans actually think he was good. If you rate QBs that way, Dilfer was the best QB for one year too.

This revisionist history in regards to Kaepernick is funny. He wasn't good.

And I could sit here and launch a lot of similar diatribe towards Wilson.

Let's take a look at Wilson's career:

2012 playoffs - lost in Atlanta. Kap won in Atlanta.
2013 playoffs - Barely beat the Saints. Barely beat the 49ers. Emphasis on barely not just on final scores, but the contributions needed from Lynch and that D. You drop down those two factors to 2015 levels and the Hawks lose both games with a 99% certainty.
2014 playoffs - Wilson plays a decent game at home against the Panthers. Need I elaborate more on Green Bay? Super Bowl, Wilson makes a few plays to Mathews. Otherwise New England had him pretty well controlled. Brady had to win with no running game, and if Wilson had similar output from Lynch this game isn't close.
2015 playoffs - After an "amazing" regular season, Wilson certainly underperformed in the postseason.

Wilson played decently in his Super Bowls, but the road to get there was always worse than the final game.

Here's what you're missing:

Kap may not be a great QB. But he was a good QB that got his teams far. If you want to deny that, then do know that Kap would have gotten SF into the SB against the Patriots back in 2011 (not as a rookie, but just saying).

You want to pin it on the San Francisco 49ers being so awesome? (revisionist history has a majority of .NET talking smack about SF all the way up to the 2013 NFCCG when finally "damn, they're a good team" was admitted)....

How about Carson Palmer this year? What happened there? Andy Dalton's Bengals have yet to make a real dent in the postseason, no?

Wilson supposedly answered his critics this regular season "carrying" the Hawks at last with #s to show.......but in the postseason we saw none of that.

The Broncos would have loved a SB rematch this year.

We can play this game both ways, Panigale.

Wilson and Kap were very much neck and neck in the early years up to 2014. This past year Wilson pulled away because his team didn't become overnight garbage. Carroll, Bevell and Schneider have done a good job keeping a good team and scheme around him.

This is why you don't smoke crack and post.

 

[Popeyejones]

Stats are great. But I would rather have that player who can make the plays when the game is on the line. This is where RW shines and CK struggles.

I don't want to belabor this point too hard or debate, but you do know that non-Hawks fans have started to question Wilson's big game performance, right?

He basically single handidly gave away the divisional round game agaisnt the Panthers on turnovers, did everything he could to give away the NFC championship game against the Packers with turnovers (4 picks and a fumble; the hawks got bailed out by their defense and an onside kick recovery), and threw away the Super Bowl on an interception at the 1 yard line.

One hundred times out of one hundred I'd still take him over Kap with the game on the line (simply because he's a better player, and very, very good QB, whereas Kap is not), but that Wilson is a big game player who makes big plays with games on the line just isn't something that's really believed off of Seahawks fan forums.


Everyone can now criticize me for saying something that's plainly obvious despite being an unpopular thing to acknowlede. :th2thumbs:

(before you get too worked up though, just remember: "One hundred times out of one hundred I'd still take him over Kap with the game on the line (simply because he's a better player and very, very good QB, whereas Kap is not)"

 

[pehawk]

Certainly valid, Popeye.

I'd personally lay the 2014 Packers game on having to adjust, immediately, to playing without PRich (only WR that commanded safety help then) and weather. Wilson just isn't good in windy and stormy conditions (few are). In the 2014 SB, it was clear from the opening drive the Seahawks had told Wilson to stay in the pocket. Why? Well, the why and the final play is why I pin that loss on Bevell (and other factors...but mostly Bevell).

Bevell gets my blame for the Panthers loss as well, if we're playing the blame game. The Seahawks totally ditched what had been working...choosing instead to "surprise" the Panthers by going into their strength.

 

[Sports Hernia]

The most insulting thing about the whole Kap to Denver saga is Elway being an arrogant prick about it.

As someone pointed out to me, Elway was ready to give BROCK OSWEILER $16 million per year after 7 starts and a lower career QB rating than Kap, and here he is nickel and diming Kap like he's garbage.

Let's get one thing straight here:

Colin Kaepernick has done way more in this league than Osweiler has so far. Comparing their first 7 career starts isn't even on the same level.....one guy plays in a Super Bowl throwing 300 yards on 10 YPA, the other backs up a QB on his last legs who only won because his defense was lights out.

One forced an entrenched starter to be traded, the other lucked out on a dinosaur retiring.

Osweiler may well go on to be a decent QB in this league but we've yet to see any proof of that. This logic of giving him $16 per, you would have had to give Kap at least $20 if he was an FA after 2012.

Osweiler sat on the bench for a lot longer than Kap, had more weapons than him and still got displaced by a subpar QB.

The entire thing is ridiculous.

You either believe you're getting 2012/2013 Kap or you're not with this trade.

If Crabtree catches just one of several passes at the end of 2012 or 2013, Kaepernick is a top 5-10 QB in this league till the end of time.

Crazy world we live in.

Kaepernick's first 10 games were prior to teams knowing what he could do...teams found out and Kaepernick's abilities stayed the same. Kaepernick is not a good QB...He has never been a good QB... He will never be a good QB. Because the niners were winning, you niner fans actually think he was good. If you rate QBs that way, Dilfer was the best QB for one year too.

This revisionist history in regards to Kaepernick is funny. He wasn't good.

And I could sit here and launch a lot of similar diatribe towards Wilson.

Let's take a look at Wilson's career:

2012 playoffs - lost in Atlanta. Kap won in Atlanta.
2013 playoffs - Barely beat the Saints. Barely beat the 49ers. Emphasis on barely not just on final scores, but the contributions needed from Lynch and that D. You drop down those two factors to 2015 levels and the Hawks lose both games with a 99% certainty.
2014 playoffs - Wilson plays a decent game at home against the Panthers. Need I elaborate more on Green Bay? Super Bowl, Wilson makes a few plays to Mathews. Otherwise New England had him pretty well controlled. Brady had to win with no running game, and if Wilson had similar output from Lynch this game isn't close.
2015 playoffs - After an "amazing" regular season, Wilson certainly underperformed in the postseason.

Wilson played decently in his Super Bowls, but the road to get there was always worse than the final game.

Here's what you're missing:

Kap may not be a great QB. But he was a good QB that got his teams far. If you want to deny that, then do know that Kap would have gotten SF into the SB against the Patriots back in 2011 (not as a rookie, but just saying).

You want to pin it on the San Francisco 49ers being so awesome? (revisionist history has a majority of .NET talking smack about SF all the way up to the 2013 NFCCG when finally "damn, they're a good team" was admitted)....

How about Carson Palmer this year? What happened there? Andy Dalton's Bengals have yet to make a real dent in the postseason, no?

Wilson supposedly answered his critics this regular season "carrying" the Hawks at last with #s to show.......but in the postseason we saw none of that.

The Broncos would have loved a SB rematch this year.

We can play this game both ways, Panigale.

Wilson and Kap were very much neck and neck in the early years up to 2014. This past year Wilson pulled away because his team didn't become overnight garbage. Carroll, Bevell and Schneider have done a good job keeping a good team and scheme around him.

So you are saying you'd rather have the Kraepper over Wilson????

Bevell has been the monkey wrench thrown into Seattle's offense, he usually hurts it way more than he helps it, so that talking point is false.

Here's what your missing:

Russell Wilson was #1 in QB rating in 2015, where was the Kraepper in those rankings?

......and since you Niner fans LOVE talking about rings, Russell Wilson has WON a Super Bowl, the Kraepper is ringless.

And save the "Seattle's defense is the only reason for RW's success" excuse. That might fly over on the "denial zone", but not in the real world. Also if you are going to use that weak argument, that should be used against your own guy, as once his defense went south, he took a severe nosedive.

Is RW the best QB ever??? No.

Does RW play mistake free football??? No

Am I glad he is the QB of the Hawks instead of the Niners? Yes.

Would I take him over the Kraepper? Hell yes!


It's OK to admit that CK is not as good as you originally thought, and RW is better than you wish to admit. I know that's a bitter little pill to swallow, but it's the truth. Let the truth set you free. 8)

 

[hawk45]

I was questioning Wilson's big game performance to myself before the Panther game. Especially in the first half (and especially playing on the east coast), I worry about him not just failing to light it up, but being atrocious.

While Bevell and weather are certainly involved, Bevell and weather usually result in Wilson just having meager numbers until he decides to take off in the 4th quarter. This turning into a pick machine thing feels like Bevell puts him in a box with playcalling, but since it's the playoffs he presses, and so we have disaster.

I'm very much in agreement with Popeye that Wilson is more attractive than Kap to anyone because Wilson is a better overall QB, who has shown flashes of being sick from the pocket that Kap only dreams about and wakes up sticky. But both QBs have made awful mistakes in big moments, and any non Seahawk fan watching Wilson vs. Green Bay and Carolina has developed the idea that when it's close (as in, your defense isn't blowing the doors off of a Denver), Wilson is a decent bet to self-destruct deep in the playoffs. Because they've seen it 2 years in a row. IMO Wilson has demonstrated ability to take things he struggles at and surmount them, so I'm hoping this trend is on his radar. I think it's likely if just displays a little more patience with Bevell and Pete's patented first-half screw-job (I'm sorry, "recon" is the PC term, Bevell is always setting up that long con) it'll be much better.

I think Kap is vastly more limited than Wilson as a pocket passer, but if his team didn't go up in flames and go away from a system he could be effective in, he'd still be killing teams with his legs and doing just enough through the air.

But, now that he's had his year of everything falling apart on him, he may not be able to reach that point again even in a good situation, because QBs sometimes get broken that way.